Balance Suggestions

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Pruny;n10784711 said:
nobody plays clear sky anyway because braindead elvenscout clear weather.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/b58baa811900103

cant take this anymore, deleted the game again :(
cdpr balance patch pls!!!!!

Most decks use silver weather clear mages.
And perhaps weather (clear) will gain more in popularity if it's a bit harder to stop.
I share your frustration about the whole create thing.
 
Pruny;n10784711 said:
nobody plays clear sky anyway because braindead elvenscout clear weather.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/b58baa811900103

cant take this anymore, deleted the game again :(
cdpr balance patch pls!!!!!

I think it's pretty likely that CDPR are making the 1 pt create bronzes arena-only. Literally everybody hates them. I consider it such a guarantee that the version of alchemy I'm running doesn't even have slave drivers to account for the near-certain change that's coming (I'm using vicovaro medics instead; not as reliable, but it's not like it's hard for alchemy to kill things with viper witchers).
 
A new suggestion has been added to the list:

Infiltrator, to improve tempo with spydeck this card might be helpful.
  • Toggle 2 units to spying status instead of 1.
  • Alchemist had a similar change in the past and it worked quite well.
 
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Yennefer: Necromancer

Strength 5
Spawn Necromancy.


Yennefer: Necromancer is currently unplayable against a lot of decks, and is pretty bad in other situations because of her restriction. This change aims at making Yennefer: Necromancer more in line with cards like Coral or Schirrú, strong golds that use silver special cards. Yennefer: Necromancer could use Necromancy, without taking a silver slot, on a card advantage spy for a 18 points play, which is a nice value for a gold, even though Ozzrel and/or Monster Nest can reach the same value, but then could also be used to tech against Skellige, without sacrificing too much in other match-up.
 
Alch1mist;n10819291 said:
Yennefer: Necromancer

Strength 5
Spawn Necromancy.


Yennefer: Necromancer is currently unplayable against a lot of decks, and is pretty bad in other situations because of her restriction. This change aims at making Yennefer: Necromancer more in line with cards like Coral or Schirrú, strong golds that use silver special cards. Yennefer: Necromancer could use Necromancy, without taking a silver slot, on a card advantage spy for a 18 points play, which is a nice value for a gold, even though Ozzrel and/or Monster Nest can reach the same value, but then could also be used to tech against Skellige, without sacrificing too much in other match-up.

Yes this is also a good solution instead of my 2 flavour suggestion.
I've added this to the startpost.
 
Added a few suggestions about removing silver spy tutors:

Skjall, it's needs a slight tweak.
  • I think he shouldn't be able to tutor Udalryk such value should be gold only (like Rainfarn).
  • Same thing with Alzur's double cross (see neutral section).
Alzur's double-cross, needs a small tweak.
  • I think it shouldn't play your spy instead it should play your highest loyal unit.
And a bug:

Bloody Baron, has a bug.
  • When your opponent consumes units he also gets boosted.
    It should only be boosted by every unit you destroy.
 
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rrc

Forum veteran
I don't understand why everyone targets Half-Elf Hunter. Nilfguarding Knight has 12 power and 2 armor. Bearmaster has 12 power. Fire Scropion always does at least 15 damage (the setup required is extremely easy and almost negligible and in most cases it is worth 20 power. Reveal, Conceal, Revel, Deploy). Greatswords are ridiculous and can win an entire game with a single freaking copy of it with all the resurrection easily available. Even Spotter needs extremely easy setup and can easily get to 17 points (Nilfguarding Knight or 18 points if they he has a spy). Battering Ram can easily do 13 damage with two crews placed (this setup is also very easy) and with siege master, it can it can repeat and get another 8 points and so on.

CDPR should decide on the base and normal power for Bronze (currently it seems to be 11) and if any bronze card should get more value than this, it should need efforts. Swordmaster can do ridiculous amount of damage, but only in round 3. I was once finished by two swordmaster as the last 2 cards and both had around 14-15 points. That is a total of around 60 points worth. But it needs setting up for 3 rounds and needs a lot of luck too.

Cards like Viper Witcher, Spotter, Fire Scropion, Battering Ram, Half-elf hunter, Dwarven Skirmisher, Greatsword, Bearmaster, Tuirseach Veteran (if I build an entire deck based on Tuirseach, he is worth what? 22 points? A similar card in SK, Dennis Cramer is a freaking Silver and this guy is a bronze. How is it even logical?) needs to be fixed. Anything more than 11 points from a bronze should need setup and efforts and combos. The higher the reward it gives, the tougher the setup should be. And there should be a maximum limit for any bronze's worth. [I didn't mention anything from Monster faction. It is not because I play them. I don't play Monster. They are just already too weak to complain about].
 
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rrc;n10845641 said:
I don't understand why everyone targets Half-Elf Hunter. Nilfguarding Knight has 12 power and 2 armor. Bearmaster has 12 power. Fire Scropion always does at least 15 damage (the setup required is extremely easy and almost negligible and in most cases it is worth 20 power. Reveal, Conceal, Revel, Deploy). Greatswords are ridiculous and can win an entire game with a single freaking copy of it with all the resurrection easily available. Even Spotter needs extremely easy setup and can easily get to 17 points (Nilfguarding Knight or 18 points if they he has a spy). Battering Ram can easily do 13 damage with two crews placed (this setup is also very easy) and with siege master, it can it can repeat and get another 8 points and so on.

CDPR should decide on the base and normal power for Bronze (currently it seems to be 11) and if any bronze card should get more value than this, it should need efforts. Swordmaster can do ridiculous amount of damage, but only in round 3. I was once finished by two swordmaster as the last 2 cards and both had around 14-15 points. That is a total of around 60 points worth. But it needs setting up for 3 rounds and needs a lot of luck too.

Cards like Viper Witcher, Spotter, Fire Scropion, Battering Ram, Half-elf hunter, Dwarven Skirmisher, Greatsword, Bearmaster, Tuirseach Veteran (if I build an entire deck based on Tuirseach, he is worth what? 22 points? A similar card in SK, Dennis Cramer is a freaking Silver and this guy is a bronze. How is it even logical?) needs to be fixed. Anything more than 11 points from a bronze should need setup and efforts and combos. The higher the reward it gives, the tougher the setup should be. And there should be a maximum limit for any bronze's worth. [I didn't mention anything from Monster faction. It is not because I play them. I don't play Monster. They are just already too weak to complain about].


The Half-Elf Hunter is targeted because of their utility.
In combination with Elven scout & Wardancer it can pull out Aellerin in the first or second turn.
With all those swarming units Vrihedd officer & brigade give enormous bronze value in just a few turns.
And they also are great units to undermine scorch so they basically only have advantages.

NG knight has great strength but they also reveal a card in your hand which can ruin your game if it reveals Igni or scorch for instance.
And if you play multiple of them you risk very good scorch value for your opponent.
They get abused by the Emhyr, mandrake, spotter & wyvern scale shield though.
So I rather see a solution/compromise in this combo than with the NG knight.

Greatswords get so strong when you don't play locks removal against them is useless because they can be ressurected.
It's the only deck in this meta where locks matter so the solution lies here: how can we give locks more value compared to removal?

To get max value out of firescorpions you need a lot of specific cards in your hand so it isn't as easy as it looks like.
Yes they are good but you need a lucky hand and compromise your deck for them.

I also think NR crew are unfair because they have 3 effects on the board:
Heal a machine, fire a machine and the passive ability to do extra damage with crewed machines.
As far as I know it's the only bronze card with 3 effects in the game.

The swordmasters aren't a problem in this meta because their hand boosting is limited because the dragoons can easiliy be removed.
But they can be a problem in the future if removal is less prominent so they shouldn't be forgotten in the whole balancing proces.

I also agree the veteran + bearmaster mechanic is a problem because of their value.
Spawning bloadcurdling roar would be a good start but perhaphs they shouldn't get boosted with veterans as well.
Because when they are ressurected they can decide to eat their 1 point Freya's and leave the boosted masters on the board.
 
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  • RED Point
Reactions: rrc
Added a more practical suggestion for engines that struggle in this meta

Locked units, locks should have permanent effects to gain more value and consideration.
  • Banish them when they enter the graveyard.
  • Or keep them locked when resurrected.
  • Immune units should be lockable.
  • Make locked units non targetable for certain abilities such as adding cards with Nekker warriors and Reaver scouts etc.
  • Don 't let them be removable from the graveyard with cards such as Nenneke and Assire var Anahid.
  • Or let locks apply on engines and removal only on humans and non-humans.
Removal, in the current meta it ruins the game especially for machine decks which can't resurrect.
  • Let removal cards only be targetable on units like humans and non-humans.
  • Engines can only be locked.
  • Make engines that struggle in the meta immune BUT lockable.
 
Just some more suggestions added:

Viper Witcher, these cards are to decisive in a game because replayability with ointment and dealing a lot of damage/removal.
  • Give them +1 strength so they can't be resurrected with ointment.
  • Or limit the max amount of damage 7-9.
  • Or check the ointment suggestion ahead.
  • Or control the damage output by the amount of alchemy cards played.
Elven Swordmaster, they are to strong bronze removal (finishers) when boosted.
  • When boosted deal half the amount of (rounded up) damage by this units strength.
    In the current meta they are not a big problem but when engines get a more protected status (see locked units & removal suggestions in this thread) they will be.
 
Can we please change or completely remove Ciri Nova and Shupe? It's infuriating that one can just keep ciri nova / shupe and Mandrake last cards and win 9/10 times. It's too hard to counter and i'm forced to add scorch to every deck just for those 2 even if i don't what it. There are more powerful cards but at least they require strategy like Henselt
 
I'm trying a lot of NG decks at the moment.
The tutors often give bricked cards that will force you out of the round early and/or in the long run losing the match because of card disadvantage or control.


Emissary, it often shows 2 Vicovaro medics this is a problem when your opponent has a empty graveyard.
  • Change it to look at 2 different units and play one.
Vicovaro Novice + Ointment, in r1 these cards often cause a problem when your graveyard is empty and you have to choose from 2 ointments.
Either this forces you to play a short round and lose control or it ends up in card disadvantage because of bricked cards.
  • Change it to look at 2 different alchemy cards and play one.
 
Pender891;n10896211 said:
Can we please change or completely remove Ciri Nova and Shupe? It's infuriating that one can just keep ciri nova / shupe and Mandrake last cards and win 9/10 times. It's too hard to counter and i'm forced to add scorch to every deck just for those 2 even if i don't what it. There are more powerful cards but at least they require strategy like Henselt

Yes it's frustrating and destroys the game when you lose control against these common gold cards.
Players with good/broken decks (like Brouver) will always push until they've 1 card left in r2 and going into r3 with 2 cards.
Nothing you can do if you don't play Nova or Shupe yourself.
Definitely not a a GG.
 
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I think a lot of problems with the spy-abuse could be fixed by simply adding the immune Tag to silver spies. The main abuses come from Cleaver and viper witcher and the like. Sounds to me like an easy to implement change that would help a lot
 
Added a new suggestion to NG reveal:

Mangonel/new machine, reveal is a machine deck but in the current meta it can't shine because of removal.
Resurrect and deathwish are the only machine decks that work adding such features to NG will do no good to variety.
Another problem with reveal is the lack of good finishers because most value is wrapped in to the mangonels synergy.
In order to make this archetype shine again it might be helpful in reversing things.
  • On deployment deal 2 damage to random enemies for each card you've revealed in both hands OR in the entire match.
 
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Pender891;n10896211 said:
Can we please change or completely remove Ciri Nova and Shupe? It's infuriating that one can just keep ciri nova / shupe and Mandrake last cards and win 9/10 times. It's too hard to counter and i'm forced to add scorch to every deck just for those 2 even if i don't what it. There are more powerful cards but at least they require strategy like Henselt
Yes lets destroy 2 most creative cards that needs work on your deck and all play Brouver spam or Nilfgard 5-deal-13-repeat 7 times clown fiesta. Shupe is most interesting card in whole game that forces to play 25 different cards, not just stupid point spam. Its not OP, there was 0 Shupes in GwentOpen. Thats the last cards that keeps me playing in this abandoned unballanced game.
And Ciri is just overrated card. 22 power for gold card is not so much, Most other golds have 18+ power and dont need to remake all deck. If you hate Ciri I automatically consider you new unexpirienced player.

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My suggestion is not buffing enemy Bloody Baron when i consume my own units. It makes most toxic deck even more OP and unfair. Also you NEED to make winch doomed. When Leader can pull 6-7 machines for 50-60 points is unbalanced even for current Gwent standarts.
 
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