Balancing Or Nerfing?

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Balancing Or Nerfing?

■The Nilfgaard Riddle

Some of us liked NG even when it wasn't mainstream. I play NG almost religiously during CBT and when OBT started i had no second thoughts, i would go all NG regardless if they were proven to be good or bad. Apparently they now are quite efficient, they have good synergies, cards are working well together.

So then, should we say kudos to the ppl. designed these cards? I heard a rumor that Devs are going to basically nerf NG. Nerf Emissaries and Vicovaro Novice. If it is true i ask myself (and i hope others ask themselves), "Why would you nerf something that is -finally- working, instead of making all Faction be on the same level. Give them the same tools, they have different archetypes right?" I am not defending NG, i want the game to be balanced overall. I'm talking from this perspective because i have the experience with them.



■It Is Not Depth, It Is Unnecessity

That being said, what is the point of adding Imperial Golems? NG lack the thinning options? No. Then they are unnecessary at best. A total overkill if you ask me. Personally i think deployable Leaders and Order units are unnecessities the game not only will do better without, but it'll be easier to balance in the long run.

The game already has an absurd amount of consistency with 25 limit decks, the more thinning, the more consistency. Yes, less RNG but there's a balance we may miss. The total lack of RNG will make it more predictable, less exciting. I think that threshold has been passed now.

I do think there's a huge difference between balancing and nerfing and in gaming nerfing is the easy step. Not the reasonable one. Nevertheless i just want to test my thought process, perhaps there are things i am missing. The only thing about this meta for me, is the acknowledgement by the Dev team that Weather is not working as they want.

The only thing that makes me think i may be wrong here, is chess. It's pure brilliance. the only depth it needs lies in the minds of the opponents. It is highly sophisticated, yet incredibly simple. There's no RNG, there ar pawns that always function in the same way, yet the possibilities are endless.


■The Weather Card Game

Weather is the only special card that has that effect. It is, permanent, if you haven't noticed. Thunder deals damage and gone, Lacerate deals damage and gone. Weather? Only First Light to counter (and some weak Units now). Why? Why is it important to be permanent? Of course there's an improvement compared to CBT, but still it is an OP soft/hard removal imo. Have you decided if you want it to be Neutral or not? Have you decided if you want it to be hard/soft removal or something else?


I don't know, perhaps it's ok, but i do think there's a difference between balance and nerfing and they should be careful and consider things before acting.
 
A huge, HUGE amount of balancing required. Some will say "learn to play/counter those decks" etc but no. if you don't play NG or ST and netdeck, you lose every time. Kind of sick of it at this point. There's no originality anymore. The game used to be fun. Now it's nigh impossible to win in ranked because everyone is netdecking OP NG with it's one card =24+ power. Then those damn ST spell decks. The NG gold decks with Borkh annoy me too. Other decks have very little in the way of counter-strategies.
I love the game and play it every day but I'm starting to feel the fun factor slip away.
 
NG only needs some fine tuning. Too much hyperbole going on recently. Like everyone thinks Tibor is such a big deal. But he doesn't even put that much power on the board compared to some other last round shenanigans. He only sees that much play because NG players can thin through their deck efficiently and play him reliably almost every game. Golems are much more problematic because they offer big first turn tempo and thinning. A way to balance this could be if the golems spawn copies of themself into the deck. Then Calveit and Cahir could still be big tempo plays but deck efficeincy would suffer a lot. You would see way less golems played, maybe people would add just one to their decks as a lesser version of old Roach.
 
I played only NG in closed beta and still in the open beta. Just something about the faction that i am really drawn to.

Everyone already knows that NG in closed beta was just about garbage and struggled immensely in higher rank. With all the changes in OB and the much needed boost for them, its hard not to be bothered when everyone is screaming nerf.

I remember reading somewhere long ago that some devs will treat balancing and nerfing like a pendulum swing. Incorporate new mechanics and see how far it goes. If its to extreme they will put a counter measure to help bring it back. Then after time create less movement till its as closely balanced as possible.

 
PinkFloyd76;n8805100 said:
Nerf Emissaries and Vicovaro Novice. If it is true i ask myself (and i hope others ask themselves), "Why would you nerf something that is -finally- working, instead of making all Faction be on the same level. Give them the same tools, they have different archetypes right?"

because they don't want people to chain-summon 5 cards, and that's possible with vicovaro novice + emissary. the same changes happened to field medic + reaver scout

PinkFloyd76;n8805100 said:
Personally i think deployable Leaders and Order units are unnecessities the game not only will do better without, but it'll be easier to balance in the long run.

if deployable leaders aren't a thing, the leaders will be played purely on the tempo offered by their abilities; which is why quite a few leaders didn't see play in closed beta.
orders serve the same purpose

PinkFloyd76;n8805100 said:
I do think there's a huge difference between balancing and nerfing and in gaming nerfing is the easy step.
nerfing and buffing are both elements of balancing. you can't balance something without reducing the power of the overpowered stuff, or raising the power of the underpowered stuff.

PinkFloyd76;n8805100 said:
The only thing that makes me think i may be wrong here, is chess. It's pure brilliance. the only depth it needs lies in the minds of the opponents. It is highly sophisticated, yet incredibly simple. There's no RNG, there ar pawns that always function in the same way, yet the possibilities are endless.

and it's boring as hell, given how every other game is decided by a few opening moves.
 
http://imgur.com/a/SHFIP
This is the problem with NG.
Turn 1 he had played Impera Brigade , and then Turn 2 he played JUST 1 CARD , but it gave him 19attack.Do you still think this is OK?Because I lost that game 2-0.
I would need 2 or 3 card to draw that round atleast.Do you still think that NG doesnt need any nerf ?
I loved this game I just LOVED IT.I was happy that I can finally play some card game where you really need some skill.But OB just totally destroyed this game.I cant wait for the live stream with develpoments today.Hope some things will change.And by "some things" i mean the 19+ attack combos using 1card and weather.

I am sorry If this reply sounds vulgarly , but I am just really pissed of right now.Do you want to know why ? Because today, I have played 5 games recently and 4 of them were against NG.

EDIT: http://imgur.com/a/te52n just another example...then he just passed...
 
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PinkFloyd76;n8805100 said:
■The Nilfgaard Riddle



The only thing that makes me think i may be wrong here, is chess. It's pure brilliance. the only depth it needs lies in the minds of the opponents. It is highly sophisticated, yet incredibly simple. There's no RNG, there ar pawns that always function in the same way, yet the possibilities are endless.


.

RickMelethron;n8806920 said:
and it's boring as hell, given how every other game is decided by a few opening moves.


I know i am off topic, but "the chess is boring" is a highly subjective opinion. You should say it is your opinion.

Chess is considered the best game ever created.

And I am terrible at it. But you should respect the king of all games.

 
pngpl;n8807420 said:
Chess is considered the best game ever created.

by who? some people consider candy crush as the best game ever created, doesn't make it so

pngpl;n8807420 said:
I know i am off topic, but "the chess is boring" is a highly subjective opinion. You should say it is your opinion.

did OP say that chest being brilliant was his opinion? don't think so.

PS: saying that i should state it's my opinion is your opinion, as is the opinion that chess being boring is subjective. did you state that any of those are your opinion?

"in my opinion" you should practice what you preach ;)

pngpl;n8807420 said:
But you should respect the king of all games.

i respect dota very much
 
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It's pretty ridiculous to even imply chess isn't a brilliant game. Whether you appreciate it or not is an entirely different subject, though.

In my opinion, of course ;p

As for the OP, yeah orders definitely needs to go, or at least the cards involving the mechanic should be completely remade (no bronze orders cards, please). I'd rather have it simply gone, though, as I honestly don't see it becoming balanced to the point at which it isn't an auto include in every deck or simply so bad no one will use it. I'll applaud it if they can keep orders as it is, and change the cards so it's actually balanced and good for deck building and gameplay alike.

As for NG, it's not the only faction with cards that should be slightly nerfed (or some that should be buffed, for that matter), but I do believe it's the worst offender (although I only think slight nerfs are warranted, really, nothing major, IMO).

Weather I really hope (and expect it to be confirmed later today) is completely changed again, in order to have it affect both sides of the battlefield.
 
I also loved gwent but its in terrible state now, we need huge nerf of some OP NG cards and balance some other ones. I can't believe im just lvl 10, i should be now like lvl 30 but i just don't want to even log in. BTW so many kegs wasted cause not doin dailies but it suposed to be fun not a pain to play even few rounds
 
Gwent will never be close to chess as it includes RNG like all card games do. The two are not comparable in the slightest.
 
After today's Dev stream it hit me. I now can describe exactly how i feel about Gwent and Weather:

Say you see a woman and you fall in love with her. The way she talks, the way she articulates, the way she breathes even, the way she makes you feel, the way she moves and the small nuances from day to day, and you get close to each other and you fall even more and deeper for her and you become inseparable. And then, one day when you sleep close to one another...she farts. And you think, well, i love her, what can you do. But then she farts uncontrollably, without any regard of the consequences...She farts, and farts, loudly and she becomes a "smelly cat" (Friends reference). And perhaps it is petty of me but, i think i need to break up with her.

I actually have a question. I have many to be honest but at least this one, i would like someone with knowledge to respond. Why Weather has a permanent effect in Gwent? No other soft/hard removal has that. In no other CCG as far as i have played at least. Why is it so important for Weather to function as such? Why the fact that is something permanent it is not consider important. Not OP but quite important to say the least.

Anyway, after the Stream i feel it is pointless for me to provide any more feedback, i'll see how things evolve quietly from now on. The game seems to have its established YouTubers/Streamers that set the tone and matter more than anything else. Also, it also seems i am expressing more personal views and not what the general feel is. What i know is, to move on when something stops being exciting or fun.
 
RIP Skellige. The faction will now be unplayble (or rather I'll switch to an axeman deck instead)... Time to mill all these useless Brokvar Hunters (regressive so... If they get caught in frost they gain no points or just 1 if stuck in the middle of two units... Yay... great) and Queensguards once the patch hits I guess!
 
Jotun35;n8812630 said:
RIP Skellige. The faction will now be unplayble (or rather I'll switch to an axeman deck instead)... Time to mill all these useless Brokvar Hunters (regressive so... If they get caught in frost they gain no points or just 1 if stuck in the middle of two units... Yay... great) and Queensguards once the patch hits I guess!
???
Regressive just means that when they hit the grave they are back to base strength. They should still strengthen themselves fine during the round. And i'd say that the 15+ hunter res round 3 was quite stupid.
 
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