Bekker's Twisted Mirror: GWENT Off-Topic

[DoubleDealer]

 

[Draconifors]

I wonder how many people have tried that in the past 23 years (Philosopher's Stone was published in 1997).

 

[DoubleDealer]

 

[DoubleDealer]

 

[Draconifors]

So many comments about the THX logo, it's hilarious.
That thing really is SUPER loud in the one game I remember it from.

 

[Riven-Twain]

However, even if we wanted to fight the hard sound in there, there's one more issue: dipthong.

Only about two months late replying to this, but, better late than never.

Since Tolkien based the language of Rohan on Anglo-Saxon, wherein an ng would always have a hard value, I find it extremely doubtful it would be pronounced as you suggested.

In phonetics, diphthongs most commonly describe double vowels in a single syllable, and I find no mention of consonants. For example, the ae in mediaeval is a diphthong (or ligature), as is the ea in meat -- to use a humbler example -- and even the Eo in Eorlingas, or the ea in the modern English title earl (eorl being the Anglo-Saxon). However, I believe the topic of combined or silent letters is worth exploring a bit.

While looking into gnocchi, which is an intriguing little word, I stumbled on an interesting coincidence. The pronunciation of gnocchi can be rather confusing (nyôk'kē, in Italian, according to my dictionary), which is what led me to the discovery. The word is, apparently, Langobardic in origin. The Langobards were a Germanic, rather than Italic, folk, and thus the word is related to our modern English 'knuckle', both etymologically, and in direct meaning. (Note the shape of the pasta.) Strangely, this word knuckle is related to Frisian, rather than Anglo-Saxon, whereby it resembles the German more closely (Knöchel, a diminutive of Knochen, 'bone').

Curiously enough, the k in knuckle is silent in modern English pronunciation, like the g in the Italian gnocchi; however, in Germanic languages, including Old English (Anglo-Saxon), Middle English, and even early modern English, the k was -- and in German still is -- voiced. Thus, knight, knee, knuckle, knave, and know were all hard-k, or hard-c, sounds, rather than silent. I don't recall the precise reason for the shift in modern English.

With this amusing detour in mind, based on the hard Germanic pronunciations, I still think the ng in Eorlingas was meant to be hard, as in finger, the example Tolkien offered in the appendix on pronunciation in the Lord of the Rings.

 

[SigilFey]

Only about two months late replying to this, but, better late than never.

Since Tolkien based the language of Rohan on Anglo-Saxon, wherein an ng would always have a hard value, I find it extremely doubtful it would be pronounced as you suggested.

In phonetics, diphthongs most commonly describe double vowels in a single syllable, and I find no mention of consonants. For example, the ae in mediaeval is a diphthong (or ligature), as is the ea in meat -- to use a humbler example -- and even the Eo in Eorlingas, or the ea in the modern English title earl (eorl being the Anglo-Saxon). However, I believe the topic of combined or silent letters is worth exploring a bit.

While looking into gnocchi, which is an intriguing little word, I stumbled on an interesting coincidence. The pronunciation of gnocchi can be rather confusing (nyôk'kē, in Italian, according to my dictionary), which is what led me to the discovery. The word is, apparently, Langobardic in origin. The Langobards were a Germanic, rather than Italic, folk, and thus the word is related to our modern English 'knuckle', both etymologically, and in direct meaning. (Note the shape of the pasta.) Strangely, this word knuckle is related to Frisian, rather than Anglo-Saxon, whereby it resembles the German more closely (Knöchel, a diminutive of Knochen, 'bone').

Curiously enough, the k in knuckle is silent in modern English pronunciation, like the g in the Italian gnocchi; however, in Germanic languages, including Old English (Anglo-Saxon), Middle English, and even early modern English, the k was -- and in German still is -- voiced. Thus, knight, knee, knuckle, knave, and know were all hard-k, or hard-c, sounds, rather than silent. I don't recall the precise reason for the shift in modern English.

With this amusing detour in mind, based on the hard Germanic pronunciations, I still think the ng in Eorlingas was meant to be hard, as in finger, the example Tolkien offered in the appendix on pronunciation in the Lord of the Rings.

Hmmm...that part about the German influence sounds familiar. I may be wrong. Welp -- time to dig out my old, leather-bound mega-book and thumb through the appendices again! (But based on what you've said here, though, I'm probably mistaken.)

 

[4RM3D]

*snip*

I recently read an article about something related:

Why is "iron" pronounced "EYE-URN" but not "EYE-RUN"?

I just noticed that the word iron is pronounced EYE-URN in standard Englishes instead of what the spelling suggests. I have always been pronouncing it "EYE-RUN" but I just checked its

ell.stackexchange.com

 

[Riven-Twain]

I recently read an article about something related:

Most interesting. I'll note that the Old English words were isern, irsen, and, more often, isen (which we may recognise in Tolkien's Isengard). This latter most closely resembles the modern German Eisen. However, the word for iron appears to take a wide variety of forms in various related languages, with alternating positions, and presence, of r and s.

 

[DC9V]

Only about two months late replying to this, but, better late than never.

Since Tolkien based the language of Rohan on Anglo-Saxon, wherein an ng would always have a hard value, I find it extremely doubtful it would be pronounced as you suggested.

In phonetics, diphthongs most commonly describe double vowels in a single syllable, and I find no mention of consonants. For example, the ae in mediaeval is a diphthong (or ligature), as is the ea in meat -- to use a humbler example -- and even the Eo in Eorlingas, or the ea in the modern English title earl (eorl being the Anglo-Saxon). However, I believe the topic of combined or silent letters is worth exploring a bit.

While looking into gnocchi, which is an intriguing little word, I stumbled on an interesting coincidence. The pronunciation of gnocchi can be rather confusing (nyôk'kē, in Italian, according to my dictionary), which is what led me to the discovery. The word is, apparently, Langobardic in origin. The Langobards were a Germanic, rather than Italic, folk, and thus the word is related to our modern English 'knuckle', both etymologically, and in direct meaning. (Note the shape of the pasta.) Strangely, this word knuckle is related to Frisian, rather than Anglo-Saxon, whereby it resembles the German more closely (Knöchel, a diminutive of Knochen, 'bone').

Curiously enough, the k in knuckle is silent in modern English pronunciation, like the g in the Italian gnocchi; however, in Germanic languages, including Old English (Anglo-Saxon), Middle English, and even early modern English, the k was -- and in German still is -- voiced. Thus, knight, knee, knuckle, knave, and know were all hard-k, or hard-c, sounds, rather than silent. I don't recall the precise reason for the shift in modern English.

With this amusing detour in mind, based on the hard Germanic pronunciations, I still think the ng in Eorlingas was meant to be hard, as in finger, the example Tolkien offered in the appendix on pronunciation in the Lord of the Rings.

interesting... I'm east-frisian but I always incorrectly say "gnochy" with a spoken g although there's actually a german word for Gnocchi which is Nocken.
Knöchel (German, with a spoken k) can either mean finger-knuckle(s), or ankle(s) [more commonly].
In Frisian and Dutch enkel means ankle so that's obviously the same term, but I don't know the Frisian word for knuckle. It might be something like knokkel [nuckle with a spoken k] but it could also be something completely different...

 

[Riven-Twain]

I don't know the Frisian word for knuckle. It might be something like knokkel [nuckle with a spoken k] but it could also be something completely different...

According to my etymological dictionary, the English word appears to correspond to Old Frisian knok(e)le. However, I can't trace it much further. I have more experience in German than in Dutch or Frisian.

 

[DC9V]

Old Frisian knok(e)le

That seems to be a diminutive of east-frysian knak/knaak/knok/knook which definitely means bone. (the a tends to sound more like an o)
e.g. bonesetter means knakenbreker
I assume knok has the same origin as Knochen:
On this map you can see the distribution of frisian languages. Since East-Frisia is part of Germany, it's possible that the term has been used among seafarers and brought to more western regions. However, the dutch Frisians seem to say bot or bonke instead.
Fun fact: Most people use their knuckles in order to knock on a door.

 

[DoubleDealer]

Beyond a trout.

I imagine people are already fed to the gills with these puns.

 

[Riven-Twain]

I imagine people are already fed to the gills with these puns.

Some might even find them offinsive.

 

[quintivarium]

Some might even find them offinsive.

It’s all a matter of scale.

 

[MauricioMM]

It’s all a matter of scale.

And of how much someone is prown to dig their h-eels in as well.

 

[quintivarium]

And of how much someone is prown to digs their h-eels in as well.

As long as they don’t clam up

 

[Draconifors]

So much fish here. Is this a mirror made of glass that can't be broken?