Bekker's Twisted Mirror: the most broken card in the game

+
Bekker's Twisted Mirror: the most broken card in the game

my win rate when i draw bekker's twisted mirror is quite literally100% (currently at rank 18 [which i climbed from rank 10 in four days of daily matches])

the card is basically a scorch which also buffs one of your units by the str of the creature it destroys, or a dudu which swaps strength instead of copying it.
another way to put it: it's a silver succubus with 1str that doesn't have a timer.

every single match, the card gave me at least a 15 power swing (even against other swarm decks); sometimes, upwards of 30, and there's pretty much no way to play around it unless your deck is built with a bunch of 1str minions (then it's decided by a dice roll)

anyway, i hope it gets changed; the card will forever be the bane of buffing decks, when they already have to deal with igni and scorch
 

4RM3D

Ex-moderator
With too many Swarm decks (and variations thereof) ruling the top ranks BTM is too unreliable, which you will soon find out when climbing upwards past rank 18. Most of the top decks no longer use the card. Regardless, the card remains situational. I wouldn't call it broken; Igni still remains a bigger offender.
 
no way .... grave hag and geralt:igni are much more annoying and broken on the current meta gameplay of Gwent
 
Balance an Hindar would like to have a word with you. I lost three ranked games in a row because of his bullshit RNG effect. But well, I guess it was my fault: I should've teched in two pairs of shackles against Kambi SK and run two Vicovaro Medics. I should probably tech a 40 cards deck with three copies of every important card (to play around Sigrdrifa into Donar), otherwise it's always gonna be my fault because Donar is fun and balanced, amirite?
 
Last edited:
I used bekker mirror up until rank 16, and God, this card alone won me like 50 games, or more.
Above rank 16, it suddenly just stopped working))))))
​​​​​Dont know why exactly...
​​​​​​
For example, from 16 to 19 I used Braenn, but after 19 even she stopped working. Plus 9 games out of 10 i had so much shitty draw, that I could instantly forfeit, its like the game started to treat me like a true master, and a true master is supposed to win even with worst draws, or i dont how to explain that.

So now I stopped playing ranked. More, I stopped playing at all, cause its very boring for me, and selecting target to be 100% igni-ed is getting on my nerves.

So, bekker twisted mirror is very strong card but not op, cause its situational.
While igni is annoying as hell))
​​
 
4RM3D;n9253521 said:
With too many Swarm decks (and variations thereof) ruling the top ranks BTM is too unreliable, which you will soon find out when climbing upwards past rank 18. Most of the top decks no longer use the card. Regardless, the card remains situational. I wouldn't call it broken; Igni still remains a bigger offender.

doesn't change the fact that the card is the value of a double scorch; and the situational aspect can be easily mitigated by playing cards such as woodland spirit and fire elemental
considering that the card is a silver, and the effect offers the same value as a double igni, i'd say bekkers is much more powerful than igni; especially in round 3, when the opponent won't be playing many units.

also, i don't think that saying "in the current meta, this card isn't broken"; the card itself has an extremely powerful effect that doesn't require much setup to use. at worse, it's a better scorch; at best, it's a much better succubus.

xenogorgeous;n9253541 said:
no way .... grave hag and geralt:igni are much more annoying and broken on the current meta gameplay of Gwent

grave hag can be killed quite easily, especially given how everyone is running lacerate. ironically, BTM is the perfect counter of grave hag
as for igni, the card offers double the value (unless you play against an unsuspecting opponent which didn't stagger his units); and also doesn't have the 20str requirement on the row. on round 3, BTM is a much stronger card than igni, not to mention that we're comparing a gold and a silver...

D4mian;n9253551 said:
Donar would like to have a word with you.
how is donar a powerful card? unless your deck heavily relies on bronze muster effects

D4mian;n9253551 said:
I should've teched in two pairs of shackles against Kambi SK and run two Vicovaro Medics.
or played gold cards, which kambi doesn't destroy.

and yes, if you're getting heavily countered by kambi, you should tech at least one pair of shackles into your deck; they're quite useful
 
RickMelethron;n9253631 said:
how is donar a powerful card? unless your deck heavily relies on bronze muster effects


or played gold cards, which kambi doesn't destroy.

and yes, if you're getting heavily countered by kambi, you should tech at least one pair of shackles into your deck; they're quite useful
Just to clarify, I was in fury while writing my previous post, sorry for spreading the salt.

I played all of my golds in round 4 and lost by eight points solely because Donar stole my Shackles (my opponent and I both had 0 cards in our decks when Kambi was about to go off and I got milled), then I was unable to steal QG in one game and a Clan Tuirseach Skirmisher in another just because my one and only Vicovaro Medic got randomly stolen in the first round.

Don't want to offtop completely; BTM can win or lose games singlehandedly, but it is probably too swingy for the devs to be happy with it, so I assume that it's going to be capped in some way. BTM, Lacerate and Yennefer are relics of the times when cards' values were not hardcapped and while Lacerate is healthy for the game as it punishes heavy rowstacking, BTM and Yen are likely to see a change.
 
Last edited:
Bekkers Twisted Mirror is OP. The devs already said that they are not happy how this card works.

The reason why fewer players using it above 4k is because they want not to risk changing the captains strenght with the strenght of the priestess. BUT when it hits it is basically a 30 to 40 point swing for a silver, which can only be half countered by a scorch effect. So when using it in doubt it's either lose or win, which would be like deciding the winner by a coinflip... oh wait...

But still there are situations where all conditions are met and you can easily get the Vran warriors 17 Points minus 1 making a 32 Point swing. (there WILL be a situation against consume where they have nothing below 3 strenght)

 
Coming from the standpoint of playing buffing decks quite a bit and hating the swarm with a passion I totally agree that BTM is way to powerful. While the effect seems like it should be siturational to compensate for the massive point swing, some decks can just roll with it while others are foced to having to deal with it without being able to influence it much. If there were limits placed upon it (like take up to 10 strength from the strongest card on board and give it to the weakest one) I am pretty sure it would still see play.
 
4RM3D;n9253521 said:
With too many Swarm decks (and variations thereof) ruling the top ranks BTM is too unreliable, which you will soon find out when climbing upwards past rank 18. Most of the top decks no longer use the card. Regardless, the card remains situational. I wouldn't call it broken; Igni still remains a bigger offender.

BTM is a staple in any top ranked swarm deck. Literally every single MO deck I face within top 200 runs BTM. It's perfectly fine versus other swarm decks (can still be used strategically, albeit not for as insane value as in all other MU's), and versus any other deck it is pretty much an "I win"-button with no counterplay. It is indisputably one of, if not the, most problematic card currently in the game, along with Celaeno Harpy.

CDPR has stated before that they aren't happy with it, so expect it to be changed dramatically.
 
Last I checked you have to have the lowest unit on the board with the opponent having the highest unit on the board for BTM to work. If the opponent has an equal power unit to the lowest unit it might not work. If they have the lowest unit or do not have the highest unit it won't work. I agree it should probably be changed. I do not agree there is no way to play around it. It isn't the only card needing nerfs either.
 
RickMelethron;n9253361 said:
my win rate when i draw bekker's twisted mirror is quite literally100% (currently at rank 18 [which i climbed from rank 10 in four days of daily matches])

the card is basically a scorch which also buffs one of your units by the str of the creature it destroys, or a dudu which swaps strength instead of copying it.
another way to put it: it's a silver succubus with 1str that doesn't have a timer.

every single match, the card gave me at least a 15 power swing (even against other swarm decks); sometimes, upwards of 30, and there's pretty much no way to play around it unless your deck is built with a bunch of 1str minions (then it's decided by a dice roll)

anyway, i hope it gets changed; the card will forever be the bane of buffing decks, when they already have to deal with igni and scorch

lol
For your information BTM(which is a neutral card!) has been like this for a long time, except it used to be gold but it also swapped strength from gold cards too. no wonder you think this card's broken as the people around your rank don't know how to play around it or how to counter it. but as you join the top 1k you'll see not that many Dagan's to begin with. You'll see almost all decks in abundance like SK NR which makes this patch one of the best patches after CB's last.all decks are competitive. but let's not get far from the subject.
The example of a broken and a really unhealthy card as someone mentioned it is Donar. It favors Sk extremely as lock unit. It's like better version of Treason(in NG)+lock+(a veteran unit!). it destroys many decks (like reaver hunters,nekkars,AR from ST and .....)if you use it when opponent has thinned the deck and if you get a chance to res it.
If it's a bane to all buffing decks then Scorch and igni should be changed or deleted from game too. you can set-up a huge scorch or igni which you can never do with BTM. so it's kind of unwise to simply say change a card or delete it from the game
Please don't start a topic using extreme words like "the most broken"or whatever without appropriate knowledge and try to stir unnecessary hate and rage among players especially the new ones. or if you think it's too annoying for you you can let CDPR know about your opinion through a suggestion email.
 
Last edited:
4RM3D;n9253521 said:
With too many Swarm decks (and variations thereof) ruling the top ranks BTM is too unreliable, which you will soon find out when climbing upwards past rank 18. Most of the top decks no longer use the card. Regardless, the card remains situational. I wouldn't call it broken; Igni still remains a bigger offender.

I will have you know that at Rank 19 last night, in Ranked play, against 3 Dagon decks, I saw this card 3 times. Twice played by me with a Treason, ironically. Once to my benefit, and once not. The third time played by the owner, much to his benefit.

I don't think it's OP. But I don't think it's niche either.
 
The swing in points on bekkers is stupid strong, it's like succubus triggering instantly. Alot of times I have to make plays to hurt myself to play around the card. Rathez mentioned they aren't happy with how high the swing is, we'll see in next patch, their take on this.
 
nunqmuo;n9262271 said:
Should be gold. But even then it can be easily 30+ gold.

It used to be a gold card, and was considered a meme card like vanilla Regis is at the moment.

I don't play any kind of Monsters or other swarm decks myself, so cannot say for sure, but I doubt BTM would see much play if it were to become a gold again. Even if it did, the huge power swings that it can create would be much less unreasonable for a gold card.

In any case, I definitely agree that the card in its current form is way too powerful.
 
I think the monster swarm type is too strong. you mostly see BTM in those type of decks, but it's just the icing on the cake in those decks.
if monster swarm type was to be nerfed, you would see less BTM abuse too I think.


is there a delete button for accidentally doubled posts?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sometimes it's too strong, sometimes it's too weak.
I like the idea behind the card and I would not want to change that but making it gold seems like the best solution to me.
 
nunqmuo;n9262271 said:
Should be gold. But even then it can be easily 30+ gold.

RidiculousName;n9262421 said:
It used to be a gold card, and was considered a meme card like vanilla Regis is at the moment.

devivre;n9262891 said:
Sometimes it's too strong, sometimes it's too weak.
I like the idea behind the card and I would not want to change that but making it gold seems like the best solution to me.

I don't think it was ever a meme card. When BTM was Gold, it had very real and very valuable interactions with other cards. Specifically, Unicorn, who was also Gold and had one Strength. There was a while in the CB Meta that Letho played against your enemies into BTM on a Unicorn was a monster play. But that was in a time where Gold Cards could affect other Gold Cards.

The other common play for BTM in CB as a Gold Card was it's interaction with Roach. If Monsters had a high buffed passive carryover, BTM played as a Gold Card summoned Roach, then swapped Roach's 3 Strength for that of the buffed Monster. It was highly effective. But that was before the nerf that forced Roach out after the Gold Abilities had taken place.

I think that BTM was relegated to Silver when it stopped being able to affect Gold Cards. And to be honest, I'm fine with where it's at. I would be fine if it saw more play. Because anything that frustrates the buff mechanic is good in my book. I think buffing is the worst win condition in Gwent, and I am pro anything that disrupts it.
 
Top Bottom