Bekker's Twisted Mirror: the most broken card in the game

[Sunsibar]

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[a_page06]

Should be gold. But even then it can be easily 30+ gold.

This is dangerous. As it is if a BTM goes off you can use removal/madroeme/etc. to at least remove all the strength you just lost. If its gold now you need shackles and removal, or dbomb. I guess perhaps I don't mind this so much, I do really like dbomb!

 

[Iuliandrei]

That's cause it WAS a gold card in closed beta, however they changed it because "it wasn't played enough by high tier players" which, no offense, but it's the dumbest reason i ever heard.
Personally i'm a bit bothered by such a response because it doesn't make much sense. You can't make ALL golds playable by top players and this shouldn't even be the primary balance factor. If you look at the history of this game generally you have only 2-3 decks playable at high rating, cumulative that's up to 12 golds and it was even less before the Renew nerf.

You will ALWAYS have more than half your golds not being played by top players and the solution isn't to make them silver.

The card was also changed a bit because in closed beta it affected gold cards aswell, leading to some insane power swings in conjunction with Letho.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I still don't get this thread. Does anyone really think MS Swarm decks would run BTM if the game hadn't devolved into a tempo spam fest or they had 15 million ways to drop 1 power units?

 

[Skryba86]

This is dangerous. As it is if a BTM goes off you can use removal/madroeme/etc. to at least remove all the strength you just lost. If its gold now you need shackles and removal, or dbomb. I guess perhaps I don't mind this so much, I do really like dbomb!

BTM is a special. It doesn't have a body to be d-shackled. It being silver or gold would have no effect whatsoever on the creature it buffs (unless something was changed about the card, that somehow promoted the boosted unit or something).

 

[Alwaysmiddle]

BTM can be balanced, if the point swing is controlled somehow, much like how morkvarg/olgeird were balanced. My personal solution would be, putting an mediocre strength body on the "mirror" part, and make the target and mirror swap strength.

BTM- spawn 8 strength mirror, swap the target unit strength with mirror.

 

[Karajorma]

Would you be able to play it as a spy? So you could just gain 7 points from it by swapping with a 1 pointer on your side?

 

[OG.laloquaint]

Agreed, this card is broken as hell. It's stronger than Succubus and that's a gold card. It needs to be changed.

 

[Karajorma]

It is very situational though. I did try playing a deck with it once and I got the intended effect less than half the time. And that includes when both myself and my opponent had the lowest value on the board and luck went my way. Quite often it ended up as a dead card in round 3.

 

[Whitey98]

Moderators can delete those.

If you somehow managed to post empty posts, just leave it empty and we will delete it when we see it.

If you managed to post two identical posts with actual content, you can edit the second one empty. Or edit "mods can delete this post" into it. Then we will delete it when we see it.

Optionally, you can also send private mail to us with the link into the post that you would like to be deleted.

Just out of interest.. Do you delete them or make them invisible to normal users. (We make them invisible on our gaming site xD)

 

[a_page06]

BTM is a special. It doesn't have a body to be d-shackled. It being silver or gold would have no effect whatsoever on the creature it buffs (unless something was changed about the card, that somehow promoted the boosted unit or something).

Ahh derp, you're right. I guess that seems good; making it a gold would definitely up the commitment from a deck building standpoint required to run it.

 

[Skryba86]

Yeah, but making it a gold should also mean changing it so it switches the strength of the lowest ally with the highest enemy, IMO. Reduce the randomness, to make it consistent, otherwise no one would run it as is if it became a gold, IMO.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Yeah, but making it a gold should also mean changing it so it switches the strength of the lowest ally with the highest enemy, IMO. Reduce the randomness, to make it consistent, otherwise no one would run it as is if it became a gold, IMO.

this .... this exaclty how this card sould have been worked since the beginning !

 

[4RM3D]

Yeah, but making it a gold should also mean changing it so it switches the strength of the lowest ally with the highest enemy, IMO. Reduce the randomness, to make it consistent, otherwise no one would run it as is if it became a gold, IMO.

R.I.P. Succubus

 

[devivre]

Yeah, but making it a gold should also mean changing it so it switches the strength of the lowest ally with the highest enemy, IMO. Reduce the randomness, to make it consistent, otherwise no one would run it as is if it became a gold, IMO.

Right now, even if you only switch a boring 10 strength non-gold-enemy with a 1 strength non-gold-unit on your side it's basically an 18 points power swing. Which is significantly more than a lot golds can do at the moment. Of course it gets a lot more insane when you're able to switch a 15+ unit. A card like that needs to be risky to justify that - no matter if it's silver or gold.

From my point of view BTM must not be that consistent because if it were we'd be forced to auto-include this card to stand a chance!

 

[Skryba86]

Most decks don't run 1 strength units. As soon as the strength of your units starts going up, then the swing starts to go down. I do realize it's a pretty big power swing if done right, that's why I believe it should be a gold and not a silver. Having it be random is not the answer to make it balanced. It just makes it unbalanced and also frustrating on top of it.

Either way, BTM is going to get revised. I don't really like the concept of the card at all, I was merely thinking about the idea that was suggested of it becoming gold. If it became gold in its current state, no one would run in. That's a given fact, IMO. Maybe if it had no random effect it could be too strong, yeah.

Either way it's a card I don't like. Can't wait to see what CDPR does to it, but I really hope they change the concept a bit.

4RM3D Succubus is never a dead card, worst case scenario she's a 6 strength gold, so it's not the same. Also her effect isn't inherently weak to reset effects. Not saying she's better or worse, just stating it wouldn't be the same, and she wouldn't necessarily become useless.

 

[4RM3D]

4RM3D Succubus is never a dead card, worst case scenario she's a 6 strength gold, so it's not the same.

None of the above is true. You would always want to play Succubus on the opponent's side, unless there is no target. But there are too many counters against it, besides locking. In the end, you'll just end up giving your opponent 5 strength. With the nerf in the latest patch, Succubus has become too big of a risk. I wouldn't say she is useless, but there are better gold choices and she definitely can be a dead card (meaning 5 strength or at it's worse -5 strength).

Besides, when I said "R.I.P. Succubus", I was referring to how the suggested Gold BTM would completely blow Succubus out of the water. Unless you have some intention of running both cards. Regardless, BTM would still be a superior Succubus.

 

[Skryba86]

None of the above is true. You would always want to play Succubus on the opponent's side, unless there is no target. But there are too many counters against it, besides locking. In the end, you'll just end up giving your opponent 5 strength. With the nerf in the latest patch, Succubus has become too big of a risk. I wouldn't say she is useless, but there are better gold choices and she definitely can be a dead card (meaning 5 strength or at it's worse -5 strength).

Besides, when I said "R.I.P. Succubus", I was referring to how the suggested Gold BTM would completely blow Succubus out of the water. Unless you have some intention of running both cards. Regardless, BTM would still be a superior Succubus.

BTM would be a dead card if it had not targets. Scorch is a dead card if it has no targets (or a negative one if you have higher units). Or at least that's what I mean by dead card. Succubus can never be a dead card, in that sense. If there are no targets, she's a 5 value gold by default. That's not good. But it's not dead either. For her to have negative value, your opponent has to deal with it, so that's an entirely different topic.

BTM, even if gold and with no random effect, could very easily be a dead card if drawn into on T3 for example. It'd obviously be much less counterable than succubus, as it has no timer and no body to get locked, so yeah, it'd definitely be a better card.

I believe this just goes to show how bad of a design the card has. Currently, it's either a better succubus in a silver card, or a negative value card. And the decision between one or the other can frequently be left to RNG. I'd think that says a lot about it.

 

[4RM3D]

Skryba86

Eh, 5 strength is not entirely dead, but still a waste of potential. With BTM it's all-in, you either win big or lose hard (usually one of the two extremes). With greater risk comes greater reward. That holds true. However, the RNG might be a little bit too much for BTM; not as bad as Donar, though. Still, the question remains whether BTM should be changed at all. It's okay to have a niche wildcard which can be used to turn the tables. A bit of a gamble like with Gaunter O'Dimm. Not all cards need to deliver a consistent result. Actually, as the number of cards grows, it would be nice to see more meme cards like Gaunter.

 

[Skryba86]

4RM3D I do agree some meme cards aren't entirely unwelcome. But I don't like that they can actually give a swing like BTM's or disruption like Donar's. These two cards should be reworked, IMO.

Too much frustration involved with their RNG exactly e cause of how significant they can be, based solely on randomness. Gaunter I don't dislike, I'd love for him to actually be a playable competitive card, though, instead of a meme. But that's just because I really like the character ^^'