Big Disappointment in The Witcher 3

[zenstrata]

Big Disappointment in The Witcher 3

First the good stuff. The witcher 3 is a beautiful game. The storylines feel interesting and engaging, the characters are well designed and the voice acting is very good. The world is interesting to explore and well crafted.

Then there came my big disappointment and why I am NOT going to play through this game until I can mod out this problem.....
I was having a great time, playing the game at level 1, wandering around fighting enemies and monsters, finding cool stuff. Then I found a letter which started a level 7 side quest. I thought to myself, Cool! A level 7 side quest! Yeah I know it will be difficult, but i'll give it a try and if I can beat it, maybe I will get some really cool items which will make the effort worthwhile!

So I pick the side quest in my list (keep in mind I am still level 1), and I go to do the quest. After a long and very difficult fight I beat the monster and am able to loot the area finding the neat stuff.

I looked in my inventory for the 'new' items, and I see a fancy looking sword, some armor, and gauntlets. I hover over them to examine them and they are ... level 1 - The stats on them were barely better than what I already had. The quest rewards had been downgraded to a level 1 equivalent.

Level 1 loot from a level 7 quest?! I couldn't believe it, I thought I must be missing something somewhere, maybe I was just looking at the wrong things, so I carefully pour over my inventory and discover something horrible, something that destroys any purpose of fighting tough battles or exploring difficult areas for me, Loot Scaling...

This game has LOOT SCALING! For those of you who do not know, this is a horrible game mechanic which sneaky developers use to funnel players into exploring the game the way they want you to explore - it removes freedom of choice from the player by essentially making encounters all risk and no reward.

Loot Scaling weakens the sense of progression significantly. it also lowers the incentive to explore and promotes holding off on doing anything but powerleveling until you reach the final loot bracket for the best possible rewards.

The risk/reward of venturing into a high level area when you're just starting out, figuring out how to win and being rewarded with a really powerful piece of armor or a weapon is a big part of how I play. Scaled loot completely ruins that. Essentially, You could go fight the biggest baddest enemy in the game at level 1, and if you manage to beat him, he will only drop a crappy level 1 item for you. This is not acceptable.

So how do I intend on fixing this? All I can think of is to wait for a save-game editor to come out so I can edit my character to the max level, thereby getting the proper level items for the challenges involved. Sadly this will probably end up making the game far too easy, hopefully I can edit the difficulty to change this.

But I have to ask the devs here, Why would you do this? Why would you use this horrible loot mechanic in the game? Basically as-is I will not play the witcher 3 in this state. Very disappointed devs, a beautiful game which I can't play because you chose to use this horrible mechanic for your loot.

 

[Amioran]

No, it has not loot scaling. Item level is just ONE of the parameters of the equipment. Many times you find items with lower levels having more damage. It depends on the effects the weapons have, along the possibility to add runes etc.

 

[zenstrata]

I thought someone may respond with your response. I will edit the first post to clarify, the items I found were not just level 1, but were just barely better than what I had already equipped. Obviously the stats on items are scaled to match whatever level you get them at, up to the level of the quest

This is loot scaling, not just making high level stuff available for lower level players, but actually reducing the items effectiveness to be equivalent to your level of play. So that same item used at level 7, because you found it at level 1, is now useless at level 7 because you found it at level 1 - all risk and no reward. You fight the big monsters - and get crap for it because you are not playing the game in the way the developers intended, removing freedom of choice from the player by making rewards for choosing a more difficult/challenging path essentially useless.

Also unmentioned in my first post - when I ran into this I stopped playing the game - and I did a large amount of research online to confirm my suspicion that loot scaling was indeed part of the game, and that the items are actually permanently scaled to lower statistics based on the level you get them at. Just type into google 'loot scaling the witcher 3' and you will find a lot of information that this is indeed the case.

I did this research and typed out this post here because I Want to play and enjoy the Witcher 3. It has many aspects which will make it a great game, but for me - this particular aspect ruins the game for me. I can not justify playing the game in its current state. I thought I should make a post explaining this issue in the hopes that others may see it and be saved the same bad experience. And just maybe it will encourage developers to change this mechanic.

An example of a great game which did not use this mechanic is Fallout 3 - In that game you could explore most areas of the game anytime you wanted, fight difficult enemies, and get good rewards for doing so. The rewards fit the challenges provided. Items were still gated, but it was done with statistics that made sense, You could find power armor, or great rifles very early in Fallout 3 with exploration. But you might not be able to use those items until you had the appropriate statistics to use them effectively. Such as higher strength requirements for certain melee weapons, power armor skill training before equipping it, etc. This gave the character rewards adequate to the challenges involved, but still kept players from becoming 'overpowered' early and kept the game challenging. - Fallout 3 did it right, The Witcher 3 did it wrong.

 

[Amioran]

I tell you they are not scaled. Try doing another run, and come to the same spot when you are level 4, for example. You will see you will receive the exact same items. The "scaling" is tied to map spot and difficulty encounter (you can easily beat a level 7 enemy at level 1 if it's a normal monster, is not a so challenging encounter). I could win a basilisk (level 14) in Velen at level 4 (that's a challenging encounter, with a semi boss high level monster) and I got weapons I can not equip for another 3 levels.

 

[VahnXIII]

Keeping track on this thread. I'm really hoping that the loot isn't scaled.

 

[Amioran]

Keeping track on this thread. I'm really hoping that the loot isn't scaled.

All the spots marked with ? have set items. You will get the same loot no matter the level. Just search for loot guides for a proof about this. How could you have prima guide indicating you the location of certain items (for example specific swords diagrams) if they weren't already set?

 

[Darkarhon]

Tch Tch.... loot is not scaled, I keep finding items below my lvl(currently lvl 14) that are stronger than weapons near my lvl... same goes with armors...

Just keep exploring, it wont be long till you find something strong, but dont expect to find something really damn strong at lvl 1-4 unless you are extremely lucky.

 

[ArRam]

I tell you they are not scaled. Try doing another run, and come to the same spot when you are level 4, for example. You will see you will receive the exact same items. The "scaling" is tied to map spot and difficulty encounter (you can easily beat a level 7 enemy at level 1 if it's a normal monster, is not a so challenging encounter). I could win a basilisk (level 14) in Velen at level 4 (that's a challenging encounter, with a semi boss high level monster) and I got weapons I can not equip for another 3 levels.

Keeping track on this thread. I'm really hoping that the loot isn't scaled.

Tch Tch.... loot is not scaled, I keep finding items below my lvl(currently lvl 14) that are stronger than weapons near my lvl... same goes with armors...

Just keep exploring, it wont be long till you find something strong, but dont expect to find something really damn strong at lvl 1-4 unless you are extremely lucky.

First the good stuff. The witcher 3 is a beautiful game. The storylines feel interesting and engaging, the characters are well designed and the voice acting is very good. The world is interesting to explore and well crafted.

Then there came my big disappointment and why I am NOT going to play through this game until I can mod out this problem.....
I was having a great time, playing the game at level 1, wandering around fighting enemies and monsters, finding cool stuff. Then I found a letter which started a level 7 side quest. I thought to myself, Cool! A level 7 side quest! Yeah I know it will be difficult, but i'll give it a try and if I can beat it, maybe I will get some really cool items which will make the effort worthwhile!

So I pick the side quest in my list (keep in mind I am still level 1), and I go to do the quest. After a long and very difficult fight I beat the monster and am able to loot the area finding the neat stuff.

I looked in my inventory for the 'new' items, and I see a fancy looking sword, some armor, and gauntlets. I hover over them to examine them and they are ... level 1 - The stats on them were barely better than what I already had. The quest rewards had been downgraded to a level 1 equivalent.

Level 1 loot from a level 7 quest?! I couldn't believe it, I thought I must be missing something somewhere, maybe I was just looking at the wrong things, so I carefully pour over my inventory and discover something horrible, something that destroys any purpose of fighting tough battles or exploring difficult areas for me, Loot Scaling...

This game has LOOT SCALING! For those of you who do not know, this is a horrible game mechanic which sneaky developers use to funnel players into exploring the game the way they want you to explore - it removes freedom of choice from the player by essentially making encounters all risk and no reward.

Loot Scaling weakens the sense of progression significantly. it also lowers the incentive to explore and promotes holding off on doing anything but powerleveling until you reach the final loot bracket for the best possible rewards.

The risk/reward of venturing into a high level area when you're just starting out, figuring out how to win and being rewarded with a really powerful piece of armor or a weapon is a big part of how I play. Scaled loot completely ruins that. Essentially, You could go fight the biggest baddest enemy in the game at level 1, and if you manage to beat him, he will only drop a crappy level 1 item for you. This is not acceptable.

So how do I intend on fixing this? All I can think of is to wait for a save-game editor to come out so I can edit my character to the max level, thereby getting the proper level items for the challenges involved. Sadly this will probably end up making the game far too easy, hopefully I can edit the difficulty to change this.

But I have to ask the devs here, Why would you do this? Why would you use this horrible loot mechanic in the game? Basically as-is I will not play the witcher 3 in this state. Very disappointed devs, a beautiful game which I can't play because you chose to use this horrible mechanic for your loot.

Yes! There is loot scaling. It ws announced officially.
But you need not worry much. If u keep playing more, u will realize that MOST of the loot is in the form of diagrams. There are very less gear to be found in the world as compared to diagrams.
And it fairly easy to craft these gear.
I dont know if devs did it intentionally, but scaling is very well balanced with finding diagrams of higher level armour.

 

[FailFailWin]

I tell you they are not scaled. Try doing another run, and come to the same spot when you are level 4, for example. You will see you will receive the exact same items. The "scaling" is tied to map spot and difficulty encounter (you can easily beat a level 7 enemy at level 1 if it's a normal monster, is not a so challenging encounter). I could win a basilisk (level 14) in Velen at level 4 (that's a challenging encounter, with a semi boss high level monster) and I got weapons I can not equip for another 3 levels.

The key part of that sentence was 'that I couldn't use for the next 3 levels'...For me, it's not so much the loot scaling that pisses me off, but the fact that it scales at all. I hate games that force you onto a loot treadmill. a new, more powerful piece of equipment should be an exciting and rare thing, not something that happens once every few encounters and improves you by a fraction of a percentage, because then you don't notice the impact of the improvement. it may as well not exist. Personally I plan to mod the game to have the difference in difficulty between high and low level monsters much less pronounced, and similarly make the gear less about what level the gear is (it really annoys me that one velen longsword can be twice as powerful as another, just because it's a 'higher level') and more about finding those rare pieces of gear that are an actual improvement (rare named weapons/witcher gear)But yes, agreed, loot scaling sucks. It would't be QUITE so bad if the loot then continued to level with you up to the level it originally was, but it doesn't. Using it early (dare I say this word...) downgrades the weapon. permanently.

 

[JasonShepard]

Honestly, progression in this game is pretty much unaffected by loot scaling due to the size and massive amounts of content. I would have preferred a level requirement, but what we got is fine too.

 

[zenstrata]

here is a quote about loot scaling in the Witcher 3 from the devs on this topic which I found with a cursory google search. There is a LOT of information out there on it, from looking around which supports the conclusions in my initial post. The good part here is at least there seem to be some items which do not scale in this way? . . . at least according to this quote. But it may have been early in developement, perhaps it was changed. The only direct evidence I have is my own experiences. Everything else is second-hand from internet searches..

"Equipment in Witcher 3: Wild Hunt requires Geralt to reach a requisite level of experience before he can use it. Common weapons and armor can be found randomly with stats that reflect Geralt’s current level. However, crafted items, relics and unique pieces of armor have set level requirements and stats. While earning these pieces of gear takes supreme effort, they are often the best items one could equip."

 

[NoBlackThunder]

there is no loot scaling ... i have got rewards that are 10 lvl over what i am and serveral leveals higher than the quest it self ... so i conclude there is no sort as loot scaling or monster scaling that reward is basicly just like that..

 

[zenstrata]

There IS loot scaling. Read the post I put in which is literally 1 post above your own. The developers have said there IS loot scaling. They just did it in a sneaky fashion and there are some very rare items which are not scaled. If you do not trust me, then do a google search and confirm it for yourself. Then again, Perhaps it is better you have not noticed it and can enjoy the game without noticing this flaw. I suggest avoiding this topic entirely for your own future enjoyment.

But I have noticed it because I am one of those players who purposefully seeks out difficult challenges early and tackles them because I want to get ahead of the game. I want to get access to items which will give me a virtual leg up on the competition because I enjoy the feeling of progression and power it provides. I like to do this whenever possible within the confines of the normal game mechanics because I enjoy the challenge as well, you work hard - attain great heights of power - and then proceed to stomp all over your enemies because you went above and beyond the normal person. That is a defining characteristic of a hero in my opinion, and when a game puts in a mechanic like Loot Scaling to deny the players that, it bugs me and I usually do not play games which do it.

 

[Dissolution187]

Prove it Zenstrata. Where are these supposed dev posts that with 100% certainty there is loot scaling? There are plenty of people on here that are giving you actual examples of getting better loot at a lower level yet you choose to ignore those facts. Where is this supposed post so we can all read it.

 

[Amioran]

The key part of that sentence was 'that I couldn't use for the next 3 levels'...For me, it's not so much the loot scaling that pisses me off, but the fact that it scales at all. I hate games that force you onto a loot treadmill. a new, more powerful piece of equipment should be an exciting and rare thing, not something that happens once every few encounters and improves you by a fraction of a percentage, because then you don't notice the impact of the improvement. it may as well not exist. Personally I plan to mod the game to have the difference in difficulty between high and low level monsters much less pronounced, and similarly make the gear less about what level the gear is (it really annoys me that one velen longsword can be twice as powerful as another, just because it's a 'higher level') and more about finding those rare pieces of gear that are an actual improvement (rare named weapons/witcher gear)But yes, agreed, loot scaling sucks. It would't be QUITE so bad if the loot then continued to level with you up to the level it originally was, but it doesn't. Using it early (dare I say this word...) downgrades the weapon. permanently.

You don't understand. The majority of good loot is diagrams and those are fixed. The scaled loot is just the common one, that will never reach the level of crafted gear. ALL the diagrams are fixed: i.e. you find them always in the same place. In my example the common loot was 3 level above, yes, but I also found a diagram of a silver sword that is unique and very powerful. If you can win the encounter you can get that diagram and craft that sword at level 1 as at level 20, with the same results.

 

[zenstrata]

@Dissolution187
I posted a quote from the devs on this topic. Other people have said the same thing supporting these quotes. Read the topic, or do a google search yourself if you want more 'proof'. Or better yet, try doing a quest that is many levels above your own and see what items you find as a result for your own in-game proof.

---------- Updated at 06:53 PM ----------

You don't understand. The majority of good loot is diagrams and those are fixed. The scaled loot is just the common one, that will never reach the level of crafted gear. ALL the diagrams are fixed: i.e. you find them always in the same place. In my example the common loot was 3 level above, yes, but I also found a diagram of a silver sword that is unique and very powerful. If you can win the encounter you can get that diagram and craft that sword at level 1 as at level 20, with the same results.

I still say that the sense of progression is very strongly affected in a negative way by setting up loot like this. If I beat a high level enemy, I want to find high level stuff. Not get mostly junk items and very rarely find an item that is actually worthwhile. The reward for a job should fit the difficulty of that job, otherwise it is not worth doing, or not worth playing in this case.

 

[Sardukhar]

The reward for a job should fit the difficulty of that job, otherwise it is not worth doing, or not worth playing in this case.

Nonsense. Much of the reward -is- the job. Because it's not a job, it' s game! If you fight a Level 10 opponent at level 4 and win, THAT is your reward. If they also have something cool, that's nice too.

I get that some people need to be paid to enjoy something, and I sympathise, but taking on something much more powerful than you is supposed to get you killed, not rewarded. That is a design mechanic.

Your preference is different from mine and CDPR's. not better.

 

[Amioran]

I still say that the sense of progression is very strongly affected in a negative way by setting up loot like this. If I beat a high level enemy, I want to find high level stuff. Not get mostly junk items and very rarely find an item that is actually worthwhile. The reward for a job should fit the difficulty of that job, otherwise it is not worth doing, or not worth playing in this case.

All the strong encounters you have will result in unique equipment. You are just level 1 and you fought a level 7 generic monster and you expect for it an unique item? When you will play a little more you will understand that a generic monster much higher your level is not really a strong encounter and so you cannot expect unique loot from it. Unique items are usually in places well guarded or that require some work to get to.

 

[zenstrata]

For you then, that is great, but for me it is not great. The thing is - the game could easily have been designed in such a way that would have been fun for both your type of play style and my type of play style. But instead it was not, and so here I am posting about it for the reasons I previously elucidated.

 

[celtics3456]

If there's loot scaling (I'm not denying there is) than why can I go somewhere at level 5 and get weapons and armor that's level 15+?