Bioware borrowed A LOT from the Witcher?

[octavian123]

I'm playing through Gothic 2 for the first time right now, and I see what you mean. However, there are drawbacks to this kind of storytelling. Though they are good games, Gothic 1&2 rely on very powerful enemies to block the player from exploring certain areas. I agree with this design to a degree, but it can get ham-handed. Why should a warg, which is not bigger than a wolf, be so strong? Why should the dragon dinosaurs (I don't remember what they're called) be so much stronger than regular dinosaurs? It's clear that the enemies function as corks on the parts of the map the devs don't want you to explore until later. In fact, most of the game is just getting to areas you're either not allowed to see because you haven't done something yet, or because you're not strong enough to get there. For that reason the game isn't nearly a non-linear as it initially seems. What you call "storytelling through gameplay" feels so forced that it might as well be part of narrative, and this is probably why so many devs later opted for this route over the open-world model.

I'm hoping that, since TW3 is open-world, they'll go for something along the lines of Gothic, but they'll allow skilled players to explore much deeper. In Gothic 1&2, skill doesn't count for much.

Like vivaxardas said, you can beat pretty much everything if you are skilled. The dragon snappers are a pain in the ass but enemies like orcs can be defeated if the correct tactic is used. What you need to do is fight them one by one and wait for their charge attack. When they charge at you, you sidestep until you are behind them. They can't use their annoying dodge from behind. Also, if you are lucky in the beginning and find a scroll you may even transform yourself into a stronger animal to clear a difficult area. You can also just avoid the enemies to get where you want by climbing mountains around them and I think sneaking also works. Another example would be the famed Dragon Slicer cave with 2 skeletons. Normally, skeletons are tough SOBs BUT there is a camp of hunters not too far away. If you manage to draw them near their camp they can weaken the skeletons for you and you can get the final blow. I also sometimes kill the hunters too if they have low health. Or you can just use a destroy undead scroll (again, if you find one). When you enter the monastery the atmosphere of the place gives you the impression that there are many hidden things in there (besides main quest stuff) and if you explore, you are more often than not correct.

I also recommend a story mod called Velaya. It is very professional and very much feels like Gothic.

 

[secondchildren]

Mine too because in such case my heart will be broken again. But, judging how CDPR writers handled plots of TW1-2, and that they know all the dangers of Oblivion/Skyrim-slaying after Gothic 3/Two Worlds fiasco, I have faith in them.
PB were never really good writers to begin with (Gothic(1) was a little masterpiece, but judging by what followed it was one hit wonder and more of an accident, or may be relevant people just left), but they were really good in creating immersive gameplay that was lost in Gothic 3. But CDPR do have great writers, and while they are quite all right in gameplay department, I wouldn't really care and take whatever they offer as long as the quality of their story is on a par with TW1-2.

If there is one thing in which (in my opinion) CDP failed a lot in TW2 is not storytelling, but player identification. I was thinking about this last night. At the end of W2 playing I really felt that it were like I haven't played anything. Nothing left at all into me. That was really disappointing.

I like the way they managed with the story and the politics, very intelligent and in certain parts they caught the atmosphere perfectly. But I often felt like Geralt was a stranger to the plot. All his decisions\actions eventually makes a partial importance to the politics. Guess it's like it is supposed to be, but since in the very beginning of the game it is said that witcher are neutral and don't care of the politics, why the devs made Geralt involved in such a complicate and deep plotics I don't understand. In the books at least, Sapkowski clearly stated that Geralt only care of who he loves. Which is perfectly understandable. In TW2, the player don't still know Yennefer neither Ciri, and you only hear about them in the very end of the story.

Spoiler

Triss has a minor impact on the plot especially on the beginning of the game. She is kidnapped, but in the end she is saved without your help, there is not even a chance that she can die if you for example choose to save Anais or Philippa. Yes, you may feel some symphathy for either Iorveth or Roche. Speaking of me, I didn't so much. If Iorveth\Roche dies nothing change in the main plot, they're not long time friends, like Dandelion and Zoltan. And no one of both is never seriously at risk in the game, or even make some difference to you and your decisions.

I felt totally the opposite when playing both DA:O, ME and Baldur's Gate 2 either.

Maybe it's totally personal, the majority of you feel the opposite and this made the whole deserved success of TW2.
I know for sure that player identification in the story, feeling deeply a part of it, it's a very important subject in storytelling.

 

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

Actually they both stole from Star Control.

And with Mass Effect the word "stole" can't really describe it enough.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh6PGp9G2W8

Damn. I had no idea. Great old school graphics though! Takes me back!

 

[skud12]

New to the forums but have played the Witcher for the past couple of years.

So, I recently just finished my second playthrough of TW2. The game just amazed me and is now in my top games of all time. I think the first time I played through it I wasn't really paying attention to the fullest as there is a lot of information and background to know to play the game to its fullest. I mean I played the original Witcher as well but there's still a lot going on in TW2, especially politics. As I played this time I kept going back and forth between the map of the Witcher's continent and the Wiki page to learn about the places and history behind the Witchers, Sorceresses, etc. Along with a couple of mods it made it one of the most enjoyable experiences I've had.

I'm also into Bioware games a lot, specifically Mass Effect (my fav. series of all time...so far) and Dragon Age. And what I noticed was that either:
1. Bioware designed there recent games' plots and stories that was/is EXTREMELY similar to The Witcher Saga
2. Bioware read the books of the Witcher Saga and knew a lot about the story direction of the 1st Witcher game and borrowed A LOT of the lore and background of the Witcher
3. Or both CDProject Red & Bioware are somewhat close and both have had some influence on each other.

My main examples in this is Bioware's Mass Effect and Dragon Age series. In no way am I bashing them as I literally love them to death.

1. Both of these games have a special "rank" or sect of some sort, different from the rest of everybody else who the main character is involved in (the Witchers). In Mass Effect it's the Spectres, and in Dragon Age it's the Grey Wardens.

2. Both of these games have an underlying enemy that is of immense threat (the Wild Hunt). In ME it's the Reapers, in Dragon Age it's the Darkspawn. Here's where I'm going to break into Mass Effect more. Both the Wild Hunt and the Reapers are assumed to be a myth by the majority of people, yet the main character knows its an immense threat. The 3rd of each game is centered around coming to grips with this threat. Both of them come from an unknown part of the universe (except I guess most of the Wild Hunt are "avatars" or something like that)

3. Both of these games have a lot of political conflict going on, while the underlying enemy is preparing to strike back hard. Both of them have factions/territories/countries that are fighting with each other in the midst of the threat. Breaking off into Dragon Age more...the elves have almost the exact same story as they do in DA and TW. Both lived great lives before the humans, humans come in and mess everything up, then half are assimilated and half are fighting for their freedom or reclaim the olden days. The Dalish in DA are almost the same as the Scoia'tael.

This is just the main things I could come up with, but to me what sets the Witcher apart is that it is just much deeper than either Bioware games. There is a bit more history behind everything and that's something I didn't figure out until recently. I guess the main reason for this is that the Witcher game series was adapted from the books and the books provided so much history themselves. And this is coming from a Mass Effect freak because I love space, but also love medieval settings.

What do you guys think? Right? Wrong? What are some other similarities maybe?

If you actually read this whole thing I actually really appreciate and applaud you haha

I kinda feel like that this is coming from someone who hasn't been into (by that I mean delved deep) into the fantasy genre book wise. Correct if I'm wrong, you may have just delved and missed a few series

Many, and I mean MANY fantasy buffs/writers/game authors etc. have developed their storylines and characters and lore along the same or similiar lines of the overall plot/plots that took place within the Wheel of Time franchise (14 800-1000 page books with 2 additional books). Not that they *took* anything, but you can always tell when someone has been inspired by this franchise or has been inspired by the source material (hundreds of rare or ancient religions) heavily.

Many authors began their fantasy life with reading this series and so it really has become a massive source of inspiration to loads of your big hit titles out there; especially BioWare plots.

Hope this helps.

 

[GuyNwah]

I kinda feel like that this is coming from someone who hasn't been into (by that I mean delved deep) into the fantasy genre book wise. Correct if I'm wrong, you may have just delved and missed a few series

Many, and I mean MANY fantasy buffs/writers/game authors etc. have developed their storylines and characters and lore along the same or similiar lines of the overall plot/plots that took place within the Wheel of Time franchise (14 800-1000 page books with 2 additional books). Not that they *took* anything, but you can always tell when someone has been inspired by this franchise or has been inspired by the source material (hundreds of rare or ancient religions) heavily.

Many authors began their fantasy life with reading this series and so it really has become a massive source of inspiration to loads of your big hit titles out there; especially BioWare plots.

Hope this helps.

:thumbup: EVERYTHING you EVER wanted to know... about fantasy, is in those books.

Seriously, if there's a plot that's not in there somewhere, it's because Jordan was having a bad day when it crossed his mind. And there were few of those.

 

[gregski]

Nice little nod to Bioware from CDPR, including Neverwinter Nights in the GOG Edition of the Witcher 3.

 

[EliHarel]

Nice little nod to Bioware from CDPR, including Neverwinter Nights in the GOG Edition of the Witcher 3.

It's a classic, and still has RP servers alive and kicking with dozens of players. I still play it occasionally.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Guess it's like it is supposed to be, but since in the very beginning of the game it is said that witcher are neutral and don't care of the politics, why the devs made Geralt involved in such a complicate and deep plotics I don't understand.
.

Neutrality and inaction are not the same, especially with someone like Geralt. TW1 has Geralt be involved in an uprising (even if he picks Neutral, he ends up fighting both and still has to do the appropriate main uprising quests).

Every action and decision in TW2 can have multiple reasons as to why Geralt is doing them, most of which you express through dialogue. At no point in the game does Geralt become necessarily actively political (even in helping Saskia, he can express doing it for himself).

So I disagree completely that TW2 forces Geralt to become political or too involved in the political plot for political reasons.

 

[fechtschwert]

Neutrality and inaction are not the same, especially with someone like Geralt. TW1 has Geralt be involved in an uprising (even if he picks Neutral, he ends up fighting both and still has to do the appropriate main uprising quests).

As for the original source - Geralts` reluctance to get involved doesn`t mean he always remains still. It`s a clash of his idealistic and realistic/cynical approach.
Like in a short story The Lesser Evil - he could have ridden away, leaving "politics" to it`s course. But politics is always about people. Idealist will not let them suffer, even though the realist knows the consequences, like a common lack of gratitude for example.

The whole Neutrality is just a part of rules set by witchers to live easier, or sometimes just "to live", because engaging in affairs based on idealistic views will eventually lead to some dire straits.

 

[Justifized]

Might as well say CDPR "borrowed" from Tolkien lol.
"Influenced" or "inspired" maybe.
You can pretty much compare any small aspect/detail in any game to any other game and find "similarities" or "equivalents".

 

[Bfler.383]

Nothing is wrong, if you copy other games, books etc, if your presentation and the subject is appealing. E.g. DA:O is nothing else than LotR 1-3 and nevertheless, or perhaps precisely because of it, the game is one of the most popular RPGs.