Bioware starts to dissolve

[Seboist]

According tot he leaked ME3 script (or draft) that leaked back in 2011, Javik the prothean was supposed to hold vital information on the Catalyst that only he knew. In fact, he himself was the Catalyst in the early draft of the ME3 script! He would be the key to victory!


The fact that they changed him from "the key to victory" to a pointless extra squad member makes me believe that EA/BioWare indeed decided to dumb his role down simply so they could turn him into a day-one DLC for extra munniez.

Javik's handling reminds me of Zaeed's in ME2. You'd think with the big focus on merc groups in that game that he would be one of the more important characters in the squad by filling them in on how they operate and such but lol nope.

Yaevinn, Siegfried, Roche and Iorveth > all ME squadmembers.

 

[AsTheDeath]

As mentioned before, this shouldn't turn into a hating thread, guys. Lightice's view is just as valid as yours. I don't think BioWare makes bad games (that's without having played either DA2 or ME3, will play the latter sometime after finishing TW games). I prefer CDProjekt Red, most of you have made it clear that you do, but BioWare has been getting a lot of haters lately. Not all of the hate they get is really deserved, IMO.

Also, I am still not sure I agree ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2. I'm currently replaying the first one and though I think they nailed the atmosphere better in that one, other than pretty bad inventory and weapon customisation and a bigger but less meaningful skill tree, there's really not much ME1 does better. Frankly, I don't think inventory management or a huge quantity of loot are the things that constitute a good RPG (TW1 has fairly little equipment, for example), story, characters and C&C are more important IMO. And though BioWare characters are always pretty cliché, I think they were better realised in ME2 (better VA, more dialogue), ME2 featured more choices and bigger dialogue trees, less copy-pasting in environments... need I go on? Yes, I missed the vehicle exploration, yes, they could have done a lot more (RPG-wise), but god was I glad to be rid of ME1 Liara...

 

[Latatun]

I only want to hear just a news: Bioware gets separated from EA.

I don't think BioWare makes bad games (that's without having played either DA2 or ME3, will play the latter sometime after finishing TW games).

Well, I was thinking in the same way as you until I played both games and my point of view changed drastically: DA2 and ME3 are good concepts in themselves but they were so bad developed to earn money and money quickly... And, as far as I think, the guilty here is EA.
They'd got EVERYTHING to do a really good franchises and... they let us down.

 

[Sirnaq]

Also, I am still not sure I agree ME1 was more of an RPG than ME2.

Wow... just... wow, dead space has more rpg mechanics than me2 and it's not even rpg.

 

[Lightice]

Ow please, stop kidding yourself. You're obviously a biodrone.

See, this is the kind of attitude that gets on my nerves. Anyone who doesn't spew mad, vitriolic hatred at a company that has made a few decisions you don't like must clearly be a blind fanboy, or even a paid drone. Meanwhile, here in the real world, there are more complex opinions than that. I have my own issues and complaints about several Bioware games (and even better games, like the Witcher 2), but in the name of balance I prefer to represent the positive perspective, as every flaw in Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 has already been spoken to death and exaggerated to absurd proportions.

Also, EA does not write Mass Effect scripts, program maps or choose voice actors. They give funding, set up schedule and do the marketing. That's it. Again, there's plenty of legitimate complaints you can direct at them for their business practices, but in good or ill, they do not develop the games themselves.

The whole negativity in this matter also seems to blind the hater crowds even to their own goals. What exactly would be an "acceptable" ending to the ME trilogy? A generic restoration of status quo, handing of medals, happily ever after? Because that's literally the only scenario I've seen pushed, even as the people insist that they don't need a happy ending. I was extremely relieved that that scenario didn't manifest, either in the original ending or the promised expansion, although my preferred ending with a sadistic choice between Shepard and the love interest also failed to manifest. I'm still not climbing the barricades for it, though.

 

[Blothulfur]

Far as i'm concerned Bioware just doesn't matter anymore, they chose to develop childish, illogical swill that prioritises style over substance. They chose to abandon coherency in favour of accessibility, and made games that everyone can play but nobody wants to.

There was a dim hope that they would go back to making the kind of games I like when Origins was released, but instead they knowingly chose a different direction. Their choice. The fact that they saw fit to criticise their fan base, stating that we're unable to understand the innovations because we're scared of change, and that we're all homophobes because we disliked Dragon Age 2, well that went beyond the pale.

They chose to sow the wind, they're reaping the whirlwind.

Taking advantage of brand loyalty to foist Origins on those wishing to complete the Mass Effect trilogy, blatantly monetising every aspect of their games through inconsequential dlc, changing no aspect of the criticised portions of their games but merely promising that the next product you buy will be better. Can't see why anyone would defend them, their awful games are harmful to the medium and their business strategies openly contemptuous of the consumer.

They fooled me once with Neverwinter Nights (shame on me), they fooled me twice with Dragon Age 2 (shame on them). But now I am a proud son of Kaer Morhen, and I stand shameless beside my brothers and sisters supporting true innovation and quality.

 

[Babli.480]

Far as i'm concerned Bioware just doesn't matter anymore, they chose to develop childish, illogical swill that prioritises style over substance. They chose to abandon coherency in favour of accessibility, and made games that everyone can play but nobody wants to.

There was a dim hope that they would go back to making the kind of games I like when Origins was released, but instead they knowingly chose a different direction. Their choice. The fact that they saw fit to criticise their fan base, stating that we're unable to understand the innovations because we're scared of change, and that we're all homophobes because we disliked Dragon Age 2, well that went beyond the pale.

They chose to sow the wind, they're reaping the whirlwind.

Taking advantage of brand loyalty to foist Origins on those wishing to complete the Mass Effect trilogy, blatantly monetising every aspect of their games through inconsequential dlc, changing no aspect of the criticised portions of their games but merely promising that the next product you buy will be better. Can't see why anyone would defend them, their awful games are harmful to the medium and their business strategies openly contemptuous of the consumer.

They fooled me once with Neverwinter Nights (shame on me), they fooled me twice with Dragon Age 2 (shame on them). But now I am a proud son of Kaer Morhen, and I stand shameless beside my brothers and sisters supporting true innovation and quality.

 

[Kinley]

Blothulfur, you just became my Vesemir. Hail!

 

[Seboist]

Bioware has displayed Uwe Boll and Ed Wood levels of ineptitude in ME3. They created a plot device that's worse than the triforce in Zelda and antagonists with a more moronic motivation than a ninja gaiden villain.

 

[luc0s]

as every flaw in Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 has already been spoken to death and exaggerated to absurd proportions.

No they're not exaggerated. ME3 and DA2 are just plain bad when it comes to plot and story. They're completely horrible. ME2 is mediocre at best.

There are several bones to pick with ME3 and DA2, but their biggest and most obvious flaws are their stories/plots.

Meanwhile, BioWare isn't really trying hard to show that they didn't become complete sell-outs ever since they're taken over by EA. Stunts like selling incomplete games and Day-one DLC are not really going to make you popular as a company, not at all. These little stunts are not acceptable and a company needs to be called out on their bullshit. People have every right to complain about how BioWare completely fucked up with DA2 and ME3.

Also, EA does not write Mass Effect scripts, program maps or choose voice actors. They give funding, set up schedule and do the marketing. That's it. Again, there's plenty of legitimate complaints you can direct at them for their business practices, but in good or ill, they do not develop the games themselves.

You don't get it. BioWare = EA. The company BioWare is now completely 100% a part of EA. EA simply keeps the name BioWare because well, it used to be a name with a good reputation, but under the hood BioWare is nothing more than a puppet from EA. BioWare = EA.

It's EA that's calling the shots here. They decide when a BioWare game is released. They decide if a game gets a multiplayer or not. They decide if the game gets day-one DLC or not. It's all decided by EA. BioWare, being a part of EA now, has to bend to the will of EA, who is calling the shots here.


Sure, I get is that it's not EA who directly designed Mass Effect 23, but almost every design decision made for ME3 is a direct result of the pressure, rules and demands that EA puts on BioWare.

The whole negativity in this matter also seems to blind the hater crowds even to their own goals. What exactly would be an "acceptable" ending to the ME trilogy? A generic restoration of status quo, handing of medals, happily ever after? Because that's literally the only scenario I've seen pushed, even as the people insist that they don't need a happy ending.

How about simply an ending that doesn't break every single established rule of narrative design? I'd be fine with an ending that just doesn't add another dozen of plot-holes to the story in the last hour of the game.

I was extremely relieved that that scenario didn't manifest, either in the original ending or the promised expansion, although my preferred ending with a sadistic choice between Shepard and the love interest also failed to manifest. I'm still not climbing the barricades for it, though.

Because you simply fail to recognize what a complete and utter piece of bullshit the entire plot of ME3 is. The plot of ME3 is already a big joke, but the ending is just unacceptably bad. I personally could write a better ending. At least I know the laws of story structure and narrative design from Aristoteles and how to implement them in a story. And I'm not even a professional writer!

Whether BioWare deliberately broke every single law of story structure / narrative design or if this is just a result of complete incompetence, I don't know, but it's obvious that the story in ME3 is completely broken.

 

[luc0s]

Bioware has displayed Uwe Boll and Ed Wood levels of ineptitude in ME3. They created a plot device that's worse than the triforce in Zelda and antagonists with a more moronic motivation than a ninja gaiden villain.

Hey! The triforce in Zelda is not such a bad plot device! It's not any worse than 'the one ring' from Lord of The Rings I'd say.


Not that Zelda has such a brilliant plot, but at least it's cohered and follows the traditional and well-established five-act story structure nicely, unlike ME3's plot.

 

[Seboist]

I think EA is being blamed a bit too much here. All the problems in ME2 and 3 have their origins in ME1 from politicians being one dimensional clowns and verbal punching bags(Turian councilor)to themes such as a racial caste system and totalitarian secret police force being thrown to the backseat and not explored(unlike feudalism and race politics in Witcher) and used as mere plot devices for pew pew.

 

[luc0s]

I think EA is being blamed a bit too much here. All the problems in ME2 and 3 have their origins in ME1 from politicians being one dimensional clowns and verbal punching bags(Turian councilor)to themes such as a racial caste system and totalitarian secret police force being thrown to the backseat and not explored(unlike feudalism and race politics in Witcher) and used as mere plot devices for pew pew.

True. I personally believe BioWare never was a legend at storytelling. The entire "BioWare = king of storytelling in games" is a big myth. But in the past BioWare's stories were at least cohered and actually made sense.

 

[Seboist]

Hey! The triforce in Zelda is not such a bad plot device! It's not any worse than 'the one ring' from Lord of The Rings I'd say.


Not that Zelda has such a brilliant plot, but at least it's cohered and follows the traditional and well-established five-act story structure nicely, unlike ME3's plot.

I wasn't saying the triforce was bad by any means. The crucible is so horrid that it makes it look like a literary masterpiece. Zelda actually establishes what the triforce is and what it does unlike the shitty crucible which I still don't know anything about beyond it doing some space magic doodo ass shit or why anyone in their right mind would funnel critical resources into this great unknown.

 

[tommy5761]

ok guys let`s keep it civil . Everyone has a right to agree/disagree with certain viewpoints on any game but we can do so without labels .

 

[LordRhoop]

True. I personally believe BioWare never was a legend at storytelling. The entire "BioWare = king of storytelling in games" is a big myth. But in the past BioWare's stories were at least cohered and actually made sense.

I agree with your points about narrative structure in the Dragon Age/s. They tried to do something different with DA2 with the framing device thing of Varric but it didn't really work.
I think they are much better at characterisation and back-story/lore, for me that is DA Origin's strength. In DA2 Varric was the best of the bunch.

 

[gregski]

In this day and time, I feel sorry hearing about companies firing people. Be it Bioware or anyone else.

 

[CostinRaz]

I've heard from someone working at Bioware that the doctors, the ones who created Bioware and run the company, have enough power with EA to actually delay game releases if they feel a game is incomplete.

They don't.

 

[mrowakus]

You know, I should be celebrating now, with a bad company going down and its poisonous influence on RPGs being gone forever... but I just don't care. Considering that indifference is far worse than hatered, I say to Bioware - achievement unlocked! You are so bad few really care about your products and designs.

As for the people losing their jobs... well sorry guys, but ultimately it may prove to be better for you considering what you hear about your employer treating you like slave labour. Why don't you kickstart a game like the your former colleagues did with Banner Saga?

 

[spacehamsterZH]

True. I personally believe BioWare never was a legend at storytelling. The entire "BioWare = king of storytelling in games" is a big myth. But in the past BioWare's stories were at least cohered and actually made sense.

I think people see it this way because they're really good at some aspects of their writing, but constructing particularly original or powerful stories isn't really one of them. Both the Dragon Age and Mass Effect universes are appealing, well-constructed worlds with a rich backstory, the dialogue is very well written and delivered by consistently good to great voice acting (if you can accept that it all operates at this semi-cutesy Joss Whedon level, that is), so they have settings and characters that people find appealing and care about. The stories themselves are hardly ever more than well-delivered cliché.

What's odd to me is that they don't seem to realize that world-building and characters are their strengths - instead they destroy the world they've created at the end of ME3 and completely phase out the established characters in an attempt at an "innovative" plot twist. And because they're not very good at innovative plot twists, it ends up falling flat on its face. It's all kind of puzzling to me.