Bitcoin in Cyberpunk 2077?

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And just because I'm feeling a little trollish.

Like normal, you mean?


We do permit some real politics around this section of the forums, as it tends to be very cyberpunk relevant. This whole thread came under moderator and admin inspection and got a provisional pass.

But let's

a) keep our tempers and refrain from insults, @1Max1

b) not provoke others, @227

c) remember we are discussing this topic in light of our fictional cyberpunk setting, not debating how to fix the real world.


Thanks.
 
c) remember we are discussing this topic in light of our fictional cyberpunk setting, not debating how to fix the real world.

Just imagine if we could work out how to fix the real world. We want none of that. We don't want no stinking videogame, we want to live the dystopia!
 
Humm ...

Campaign concept?

All the liberals are herded into one area and allowed to do as they please INSIDE that zone (of course they'd have to ship in food and provide utilities from outside the zone because no real liberal is going to be a farmer or sewer maintenance type).
Then the president's plane crashes inside the zone and ....

Wait ... didn't they do a movie with a similar plot?
 
Humm ...

Campaign concept?

All the liberals are herded into one area and allowed to do as they please INSIDE that zone (of course they'd have to ship in food and provide utilities from outside the zone because no real liberal is going to be a farmer or sewer maintenance type).
Then the president's plane crashes inside the zone and ....

Wait ... didn't they do a movie with a similar plot?

And I was in a campaign based on a crossover of dirty dozen and escape from la.

Combat zone is basically that anyway.
 
And just because I'm feeling a little trollish: who pays for infrastructure in a hypothetical future where bitcoin is universal? We're presumably not paying taxes in this scenario (I'm assuming based on the "government not spending taxpayer money on nuclear weapons" bit of your post), so who pays the cops? Who fixes the roads? I can't see how this would be remotely sustainable.

And just because I'm feeling a little trollish: who pays for infrastructure in a hypothetical future where bitcoin is universal? We're presumably not paying taxes in this scenario (I'm assuming based on the "government not spending taxpayer money on nuclear weapons" bit of your post), so who pays the cops? Who fixes the roads? I can't see how this would be remotely sustainable.

In this future rules aharchism, cryptoanarchism, self ownership, free markets, google what Roger Ver says on that. Also good to know Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard and other writers for that.

In future, everyone will have weapons. EVERYONE...

You dont believe me? Google what Cody Wilson do from Defence Distributed. Anyone can defend himself from evil cops, for example, or burglars. You guys should read crypto news sites, theyre following:

in russian

bitnovosti.com - rare content, many doscussions, rich audience, like
forklog.com - they have english articles, bad design, good articles
coinspot.io - geek view of tech world and Bitcoin, cool design

in english

news.bitcoin.com - my best
cointelegraph.com - heavy ads, were better in 2014
coindesk.com - light, attractive, simple news outlet
bitcoinmagazine.com - for business and hardcore fans

also

notbeinggoverned.com

This stuff could be in new 2077 game BTW.

So..... we will build our roads by ourselves. Our governing will be automated and decentralized. World will be living on Smart Contracts, like in Ethereum, a large blockchain based projeKt from Canada with Vitalik Buterin as CEO - a math genius of 20 years old (maybe more I dont reebmemeember now).
 
I think Bitcoin (a digital, decentralized peer-to-peer electronic-cash payment system built on cryptography) is an excellent idea for CyberPunk to implement within the game.

In fact, I literally just made an account because I played (and loved) The Witcher, went on Wikipedia to read up on the awesome people behind the game, saw that CD Projekt Red was working on yet another game, read up on that, and, after reading through the majority of the Sticky posts on the forum (and everywhere else that had info), as someone who's been in the Bitcoin space for a few years, the thought of suggesting it here immediately came to mind. Of course though, I found that someone had already made a post suggesting that Bitcoin be implemented.

Obviously I think it's a very exciting idea however, as some people have rightly stated, decentralized cryptocurrency (i.e. Bitcoin) would most likely be highly illegal in an environment similar to the world of CyberPunk due to its decentralized and naturally disruptive nature.
That being said, as a few other people have pointed out, I think it would be the perfect way to pay for and sell items on the CyberPunk black market.

In fact, there's already a history of black market use with Bitcoin (for better or worse) and, on top of that, Bitcoin's very creation, naturally, has very strong ties to the cypherpunk community, a community which advocates the widespread use of strong cryptography as a route to social and political change while aiming to achieve privacy and security.

As a digital, decentralized payment system, I think Bitcoin would fit within the CyberPunk atmosphere perfectly. I'd very much like to see it implemented in some way. Even if it's only just mentioned, that would be pretty cool.

So... ya. Just wanted to share my thoughts. Which by the way is really cool of CDPR for giving us the opportunity to do so like this.
By the way, if any Devs see this, I just want to say that you guys are the best! Your hard work is really appreciated.
 
RE: real-life Bitcoin

The blockchain is full, innit? Haven't been keeping up with following the Bitcoin shenanigans, but is Bitcoin still viable?

RE: a Bitcoin-like currency in-game

I don't really see a need for it. I thought that in the existing lore, Eurobucks are either represented by credit transactions, or physical cash, with the latter being frowned upon in polite circles, and sometimes not accepted in high-end places. Physical cash always struck me as the preferred currency of under-the-table and back-alley deals.
 
The blockchain is full, innit? Haven't been keeping up with following the Bitcoin shenanigans, but is Bitcoin still viable?

Bitcoin is definitely still viable. Of course that being said, it has become a bit expensive for people in 3rd world countries to use, which is a real problem for a large majority of the community. Obviously, the idea is that Bitcoin should be advantageous for everyone, not just a few.

Without going into too much technical detail, the main issue right now is that there are a lot of transactions going on. Because of this, blocks (essentially a certain number of transactions grouped together) are filled pretty quickly, due to the fact that they have a limit and can only accept a certain number of transactions (currently the limit is 1MB per block).

Normally, in order to confirm a transaction is valid, you should wait about 10 minutes for a block to be added to the Blockchain (essentially meaning that your transaction and everyone else's transaction in that block has been accepted by the network)
Of course, for large transactions, you might want to wait for two or three more blocks to be built on top of it. Each time a block is built onto the block in which your transaction exists, it's called a confirmation. It's already nearly impossible to do a double spend transaction (faking the network) but as a common rule of thumb, it's recommended people wait for 6 confirmations when doing large transactions.

So, what does it mean when there's a lot of transactions going on and blocks are being filled at a very fast rate?
It means that you might have to wait longer than 10 minutes before your transaction receives each confirmation. In other words, it means that the network is a bit slow due to the fact that blocks have a limit 1MB limit.

Of course, if you wish to get around this, all you have to do is simply include a higher transaction fee (e.g. $1 rather than $0.10). The fee goes to the people who receive notice of each transaction and put the transactions into a block. These people are called miners and essentially, they're the ones which keep the network alive (this is where the decentralization comes in). For finding a valid block (the next block that will be added to the network), they are rewarded with a fixed amount of Bitcoin which is created 'from thin air' at this time (a reward which halves every so often) as well as all of the fees from each transaction in the block.

What this means is that they recognize the higher fee and, naturally, they will process it faster than other. That's how most people today get around having to wait more than 10 minutes before their transaction is confirmed. But, like I said before, while a $1-2 fee might not be a big deal for the majority of users, the majority of users are very concerned because it discourages others, specifically those in third world countries from using Bitcoin. Obviously $1-2 for them is way too high.

But, the good news is that in July, the reward for mining (currently 25 Bitcoin) will halve and following that, the community will add to the Bitcoin software, support for a 2MB block size (that's double). The way they do this is basically, code is added to the source code, users check the code and make sure it is what the developers say it is, download the new software containing this code, and, if enough people do so, that new software becomes the standard software of Bitcoin. Essentially that's how they makes changes and add new features, but of course, the majority of the community has to agree to it.

Now, back to the game...

I don't really see a need for it. I thought that in the existing lore, Eurobucks are either represented by credit transactions, or physical cash, with the latter being frowned upon in polite circles, and sometimes not accepted in high-end places. Physical cash always struck me as the preferred currency of under-the-table and back-alley deals

I honestly don't know too much about the existing lore but you do have a point there. Physical cash is already the preferred currency of under-the-table and back-alley deals. The reason though that I think that cryptocurrency and specifically Bitcoin fits in well here is because of the fact that it's digital.

For example, if you want to be paid by or pay a certain person or organization in the game but you still want it to be an anonymous transaction, you could use cryptocurrency (this applies to Bitcoin as well, to a certain extent). On top of that, the person doesn't even have to be close to you, they could be halfway around the world.

That's why, in a world like CP, I think cryptocurrency fits in quite well. Of course, as I said before, due to it's anonymous nature and perhaps its decentralization, the government would probably forbid it's use. Of course, fiat currency would probably still exist as well and have it's worth outside of the under-the-table and back-alley deals.
 
Good stuff, -cause; thanks for that.

I'm not opposed to the idea of cryptocurrency in-game, but mechanically, I don't see how it would function any differently than the "money" mechanic in any other c-rpg, besides maybe adding flavor.
 
Good stuff, -cause; thanks for that.

I'm not opposed to the idea of cryptocurrency in-game, but mechanically, I don't see how it would function any differently than the "money" mechanic in any other c-rpg, besides maybe adding flavor.

On a mechanical level, yes, it would essentially function the same as 'regular' in-game fiat money with a few minor differences. So ya, you're totally right, it would just add flavor. But I think it would be perfect in a cyberpunk theme. In fact, I think including both cryptocurrency and 'regular' fiat currency would be very fitting. For the reasons I've given previously, it just feels realistic to me. One is the currency of everyday in-person transactions, the other is the currency of private, global electronic transactions.

Furthermore, and I'm really just throwing around ideas here, the cryptocurrency could perhaps even being tied to the price of the in-game fiat currency, in the same way that Bitcoin sort of is in real life. Taking Bitcoin as an example, $400 (or Eurobucks) would be, at one point in time, equal to 1 Bitcoin (or whatever cryptocurrency is used) and the price would fluctuate depending on in game events.

Say that something big happens in-game at some part of the story which has the implications of effecting the cryptocurrency in a negative way, then, the price of that cryptocurrency, say 1 Bitcoin, would go down relative to the price of the fiat currency. In other words, at some point in time, $400 (or Eurobucks) could now be equal to 0.5 Bitcoin. Or, 1 Bitcoin is now equal to $200 (or Eurobucks).

So, if we assume that cryptocurrency is used in-game for example, to buy items on the black market, because of this connection to 'regular' fiat currency, depending on what happens in-game, items on the black market may at some point in time be much more expensive or much cheaper (but probably the former more often than the latter).
For example, the rifle you wanted to buy on the black market which was at one time 2 Bitcoins is now being sold for 4 Bitcoins due to a major in-game event that ended up effecting the price of the cryptocurrency in a negative way.

I think it would give the game a very realistic feel whenever the player participates in a transaction that the CP government would consider 'illegal' and would normally try to restrict. On top of that, I also think that cryptocurrency fits in here better than cash is because: it's secure, digital, essentially anonymous, decentralized, and works from a distance.
Cryptocurrency, and specifically Bitcoin, already feels very cyberpunkish to me, even in real life.
 
Furthermore, and I'm really just throwing around ideas here, the cryptocurrency could perhaps even being tied to the price of the in-game fiat currency, in the same way that Bitcoin sort of is in real life. Taking Bitcoin as an example, $400 (or Eurobucks) would be, at one point in time, equal to 1 Bitcoin (or whatever cryptocurrency is used) and the price would fluctuate depending on in game events.
Ooo. I do really like that idea. Maybe something you can do during the main story / campaign arc, to artificially depress / inflate the cost of the cryptocurrency. (As long as there's not a way for players to "game" the system, like the way it's possible to game the stock market function in GTA V.)
 
Hey, 1Max1. I agree with you completely, I think that in the future we won't have any problems. Even now we are able to use bitcoin which is easy to use and you don't need to have paper money. You can even make transactions anonymously therefore no one will understand what are you doing. When I started investing, I found the site which I'm using for this, it's called mycryptomixer. I've been using it for 4 months and I didn't have any issues with it at all, I think even a kid will be able to understand how to use it.
 
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I mean it would probably be better to use something not laughably insecure, but also Crypto's value now is based on speculation rather than usefulness.

I would not want to get paid in something that only has value because some hedge fund shithead is hyped about it.
 
You remember how long it was until people reliably used credit cards online? Guess what, many still won't. Trust and Money...tough.

So true!

My mum is getting to the age where it would be nice if she used delivered groceries from time to time, especially for heavier stuff, but whenever I mention setting up online banking she acts as if her account will be 'hacked' and she'll lose all her money within months. The guy she lives with is even worse. Last time I mentioned it, he practically made me promise I wouldn't do it before I could leave the house.

So you can imagine what they'd think of Bitcoin.

If it's not to do with money though, they're much more open. He's loved using a laptop for several years now (despite originally saying, 'What's the point? I don't need the internet, I've got the TV and newspapers) and my mum uses an Amazon Firestick no problem.
 
There's certainly a "trust" factor to currency. I'm not old enough to remember when the USA officially dropped the "Gold Standard" (1933) but I remember grandparents talking about people not trusting paper money and stashing/hording gold before the announcement. But I do remember "Silver Certificates" (redeemable at face value in silver till 1968) and a similar rush, by some, to get their silver before paper money became worthless.

Even gold, or what-have-you, is only worth what people think it is. NOTHING used as currency has an inherent value. We've all seen the "Government is failing buy gold NOW!" adds on the internet. With a total collapse even gold is worthless. If you want to horde something valuable in the event of a total collapse horde food.

But, to the point. Bitcoin is, like any currency, worth what people think it is, no more, no less. But it has the same disadvantage any other electronic exchange does, traceability. Any electronic transaction can be traced (it may not be easy but it can be done) whereas physical currency (money, gold, diamonds, etc.) can be relatively easily transferred without a trace. This is important in some "business" transactions. If you think your credit/debt card is useful for anything go see your local pusher and try to buy drugs with it.
 
Doubt there will be any currencies in Cyberpunk that either the corps or the governments doesn't own.
They'll probably keep using hard cash, for shady uses, either from black market or corp/gov shady business.

Just like in real life, Cops, when undercover would use cash.
I doubt you'd buy the trust of a drug deal by giving him a bunch of badly printed dollars.
CIA giving a cash wallet to a bunch of mercenaries
...
Arasaka giving corpo cash or eurodollars with a bunch of goodies to the edgerunners they'll use, etc...

Prostitute? I'm sure they'll keep rely on hard cash.

Digitalmoney seems fancy, but most people still want to use something they can touch.

Paypal can be hacked, traced, so does everything going through the net.

There is a reason you won't buy hash from a dealer with a check lol.

All of this to say, I'm sure that, even with all the tech available, the black market will still rely on cash or something in that form.
It can't be traced, it's value is stable and it's quick, easy, doesn't leave any traces.

Look at the gameplay, when the Maelstorm get fucked by Militech with the virtual money thing...
It would be quite common, and probably another reason you'd rather have a big wallet of cash in your hand rather than a usb card with a trojan on it.
 
PS. ALL MONEY OF THE WORLD ARE FAKE MONEY. Bitcoin and Gold are the 2 real forms of money we have.

Actually no.
ALL money form, including Bitcoin and gold, are relying on trust and belief.
Without those, paper currency is just paper, coin are just petal pieces, Bitcoin are just encrypted data and gold is just another rare metal.
 
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