Ok, and you won most of your games because of this card?
Yes, it's still too strong, just as I thought it would be when I saw that nerf. [...]
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This card is ok now. One more nerf, and no one will use it.
I mean, the BM+MA couple has 10 provs in a deck. It takes a 6 provs slot. It's easier to brick than Empera or Doggos. One more nerf, and there will be no sense to use them since they have no synergy and clog your board. It will be safer to use a classic thinning package then.
Like, how would you nerf it? -1 point? On the open board, it will be just 8 points. And even if you get a total 10 points value, 2 points is not that much (meaning all the disadvantages) over the classic 8 points thinning package.
So, don't push this card to the NG bronze graveyard.
I mean, the BM+MA couple has 10 provs in a deck. It takes a 6 provs slot. It's easier to brick than Empera or Doggos. One more nerf, and there will be no sense to use them since they have no synergy and clog your board. It will be safer to use a classic thinning package then.
Like, how would you nerf it? -1 point? On the open board, it will be just 8 points. And even if you get a total 10 points value, 2 points is not that much (meaning all the disadvantages) over the classic 8 points thinning package.
So, don't push this card to the NG bronze graveyard.
It's called prioritizing.
Just yesterday Burza said that a) they have bigger priorities right now and b) every card needs to be looked at separately, so it's not as easy as changing a bunch of numbers.
I missed it but yea not that i'm not happy with what they've done. Just expect more.
I keep seeing this claim that it's easier to brick. How exactly does this break easier than other thinning cards?
If you play, for example hunting pack, you only brick if you have both copies in hand. If you play the blightmaker/mage assassin, you brick by either holding both cards or only mage assassin.
I only play NG in seasonals, and there in some decks I had BM+MA combo and NEVER, not even once did it brick like that for me lol. If you don't get it R1 you most certainly will get it R2. In regular games I also notice opponents have no problems using both BM+MA combos in R1...
Now if you want to talk about a brickable bronze thinning tool, then look to SK's Heymey Skald + Tuersach Skirmisher combo. That actually bricks for me a lot of the time cause to pull it off you need BOTH Skald and Skirmisher in hand which is actually harder then having 1 in hand and other in deck, and withouht Skald Skirmisher is about as useless as the Mage Assassin. Okay now Skald is still technically usable without the Skirmisher but then you're left with a brick Skirm unless you have more discard options.
Oh and also the NG dogs need to have a status on the enemy side, though that's a very simple condition for NG it's still a condition of some sort.
Call me unlucky. I would not play Skald/Skirmisher because for me bricks almost all the time. I also don’t play blightmaker/assassin because I own no copies of Assassin. But I have no objection facing it.
While I wish the combo could be tuned down a notch, I do not favor nerfing either card — without the combo both are underpowered. I don’t appreciate cards that have no value unless played as a combo — that is narrow, uncreative, and highly random.
While I wish the combo could be tuned down a notch, I do not favor nerfing either card — without the combo both are underpowered. I don’t appreciate cards that have no value unless played as a combo — that is narrow, uncreative, and highly random.
Nauzica, poison guy, The aristochrat Who can Block, The other soldar Who can Block, thristy dá-me, The spy Who copy The opponent bronze...
There is a lot of good NG bronzes.
Comments like this lead me to believe you have never played NG.
Nauzicaa Sergeant can get decent value over time in a deck that supports it. But it comes in with a four strength body which is easily removed. Thirsty dames are also prone to immediate removal.
Locking cards can be nice, but in recent metas, there has been a strong trend toward immediate value plays — as often as not these cards play for a measly 3 or 5 points. There are a few other NG cards that could derive value from locks — but this requires intentional deck design. You can not expect to these cards have value against all opponents in just any deck.
Mage infiltrator is not a good card (except in assimilate decks). It trades down to whatever you copy — both because it gives your opponent one free point and because your opponent’s cards are designed to synergize with his deck — not yours.
While I agree that NG has some very good, situational bronze cards, I also agree with those who complain about weak bronzes. NG seems to lack a dependable bronze backbone. In particular, the bronze engines are very vulnerable (removable at 4 strength), almost all are very low tempo, and many depend upon other cards for value creating inflexibility and draw dependence.
And comments like these make me think you never played anything OTHER than NG. Every faction has good and bad bronzes, and NG, with Blightmaker and VWM, is certainly not on the bottom of anything. "NG bronzes are bad" has been used in these arguments since beta and has been not valid since about the same time. Right up there with the famous "NG is a control faction."
It performs very well with few control tools on red coin. You can win on even and thin your deck to draw golds and push 2:0 sometimes.
I cannot really tell you how well it works on pro ladder cause I hevn't been there for some time, since I am back recently and casually testing new synergies.
What I can tell you is that this card is doing too well for it's cost and while empowering NG bronzes was a good thing, it was not executed correctly, at least not with a Mage Assasin combo.
Given NG is, by the statistics I can look up, only my third most played faction on ladder (and most of those games were with the starter deck on rank > 20), given I have not intentionally played NG on ladder in over a year (I have accidentally queued it on rare occasion), given that presently my top three decks (and the only ones I play to be competitive) are NR and two different SK, given my favorite deck of all time was MO (until the change to fleder invalidated it), and given NG is my least collected faction (though not by a significant margin), I will take this as a complement. What a testimonial to my objectivity
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I agree here, but I believe the best “fix” is to continue to significantly improve bronze cards across the board.
As a second choice, given both cards are interesting, but individually weak, is to nerf the combination rather than either card individually. I would support returning Blightmaker to 5 provisions, but add either the requirement that the mage moved must be at least 5 provisions to spawn a guardian or change the spawn ability to “spawn the guardian at the start of your next turn if the card on top of your deck is a mage.”
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Well, at least for me it doesn't work too well. Many times my mulligans get messed up massively which leads to me not being able to win round one, getting pushed so I have to use stuff like Ball or other strong powerplays and then get wrecked in a short round. That's my typical NG experience at the moment, that's why I switched over to NR and SY :/
You shouldn't. Rather, if true, it's still a testament to the lack of basis for your argument, and bears no effect on the fact that NG having "bad" bronzes is a myth, being perpetuated by NG players and those, who promote own objectivity but lack knowledge.Given NG is, by the statistics I can look up, only my third most played faction on ladder (and most of those games were with the starter deck on rank > 20), given I have not intentionally played NG on ladder in over a year (I have accidentally queued it on rare occasion), given that presently my top three decks (and the only ones I play to be competitive) are NR and two different SK, given my favorite deck of all time was MO (until the change to fleder invalidated it), and given NG is my least collected faction (though not by a significant margin), I will take this as a complement. What a testimonial to my objectivity
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If you want to convince me that NG does not have strong, general purpose bronze cards (other than the blightmaker/assassin combo), please give me examples of bronzes you consider generally strong. Simply making a general claim with no supporting evidence isn’t helpful.
Understood. I don't really see that as an "easier" brick for a tutor faction that is fully capable of manipulating cards in hand, deck and graveyard and certainly not an even trade off for what it gets in exchange but ok
I'm going to assume you miswrote here, because I'm saying NG DOES have strong bronzes, not that it does not. AND that they have weak bronzes as well, like all other factions. As for the examples, they were given earlier by the other person and I added VWM myself to the list. Your argument that they require specific deck-building and prone to removal apply to most of the bronzes across the board and certainly not unique to NG. In the case of the sergeant, for example, yes, it comes down as 4 and is easy to remove, but as a ST player I can site the swordsman and the commando as the 4p cards that are very similar, except they can only engine out 1 point per turn, while the sergeant can laugh and get 3. Assimilate cards can proc twice a turn, while Harmony cards cannot without a leader. The viper adept drops at 5. The aristocrats can get 10 point slam on deploy AND it's an engine. The locks that were already mentioned aren't going to do much against point slam, obviously, though whether pointslam is truly prevalent is very debatable, and the fact that they can easily stop engine decks DOES still make them good. Cheap poison cards are still good. Some of the soldiers are good within the archtype now that it's been buffed with armor. There are bunch of cards that serve very good purpose for their respective clog and mill decks. Those are terrible, asinine archetypes, but the cards are still there to facilitate that gameplay, should you desire it. Their thinning cards are good even without the blightmaker. The dogs and the impera brigade are certainly better than ST's volunteer and sentinel set. Also, the diviner is the best bronze purify in the game that happens to also be an engine somehow.
In short, once again, there is no real, tangible gap in quality between NG bronze units and that of other factions. A lot of the cards are similar across the board, and a lot of them on NG side are actually better than others. Meanwhile, we're also told that NG is a "control faction," so it's OK for them to have all those insane golds.