Blood and Wine Story Issue - Three Days Later part

[MatMaster]

Blood and Wine Story Issue - Three Days Later part

Hello everyone!
I am heavily dissatisfied with the last 3 hours of the Blood and Wine story.
To be more specific, I dislike the chain of events which occur right after finding Syanna (the three days later part).
As it is an RPG game, I am sure that the player should have an option to impact how the game turns out at that (and any) point. However, after Dettlaff vanishes we jump THREE DAYS later into the Beauclair palace with Regis and Geralt talking about how they have done nothing to find Dettlaff or bring Syanna to him during these three days. (Better do it earlier or at least TRY, before Dettlaff attacks the city, right??)

Three days is a lot of time for such powerful, experienced and skilled individuals. I know that either the writers made a terrible mistake with that part of the story, or something serious halted Geralt's and Regis' efforts (maybe Geralt lost his swords, or - was romancing someone, which would make more sense).

If the vampire attack on Beauclair is such an important part to the story, why not make a buildup to it? Did the developers have too little time? Did the writers change mid-productions (it seems likely, look at how certain characters behave before and after the Syanna reveal part, ex. Anna Henrietta).

I would like to see the answers to these questions and, maybe someday, see the "Three days later" part changed into another 2-3 hours of gameplay with additional quests, story and dialogues. After all, they added more romance scenes for Triss. Blood and Wine is the final adventure, make me give it that perfect score, give it (and the players) some special treatment. It wouldn't take much time and resources, and would definitely make everyone happy.

The devs could also add real romance to Blood and Wine, as they promised in the promotional materials. Instead we got a forced, unnatural and completely out of place scene with Syanna having no buildup or connection between the characters.
My opinion is that the duchess would be a good romance option for this DLC. Anyway, you could always choose between the duchess and her sister.

However, the lack of romance is not as disturbing as the cut-out content after you find Syanna.

Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions. Let us hope that the developers will see this and react.

 

[sv3672]

There is an older thread where the "three days later" issue has been discussed. In short, that time is skipped probably because there is nothing that Geralt could do to prevent the attack, and the attack itself plays a role in being able to find Syanna or Dettlaff. Damien would not tell where Syanna is before that, while entering the unseen elder's cave is very dangerous and is only suggested as a last resort after the vampires attack the city. So, whatever Geralt does in those three days, it is just not important enough to the story, the night of long fangs happens no matter what. In any case, the development of TW3 and its expansions has been finished, it is unlikely that a large (or any) content change like this would be made now.

 

[MatMaster]

There is an older thread where the "three days later" issue has been discussed. In short, that time is skipped probably because there is nothing that Geralt could do to prevent the attack, and the attack itself plays a role in being able to find Syanna or Dettlaff. Damien would not tell where Syanna is before that, while entering the unseen elder's cave is very dangerous and is only suggested as a last resort after the vampires attack the city. So, whatever Geralt does in those three days, it is just not important enough to the story, the night of long fangs happens no matter what. In any case, the development of TW3 and its expansions has been finished, it is unlikely that a large (or any) content change like this would be made now.

Which makes me sad. Even if what they do during those three days is unimportant, we shouldn't get potentially less gameplay because of that. That's a bad excuse for being lazy. And the jump is poorly justified, you can't deny that. Well, the change of style in writing was really easy to feel and it doesn't allow me to give BaW more than 8,5/10. They really screwed that part up. IMO they had too little time to make the story perfect and they focused too much on side content. Well my post is still viable because it's nature is a bit different than of the post you mentioned earlier.
Thanks for your contribution.

P.S.: Damien would not tell? Axii would probably work. If that didn't work - vampiric persuasion, as I remember, vampires can mind control humans to a point. Or just simple verbal persuasion, Geralt can be silver-tongued if he wants to. Poor writing is poor. And writing got poor after they revealed Syanna at the party.

 

[Rafaelbw]

They could add a quest, where you would follow some leads to find Detlaff, I hate when I have no control over the time in a game, like when you clean a abandoned area and voosh, 12 hours passed.

 

[MatMaster]

They could add a quest, where you would follow some leads to find Detlaff, I hate when I have no control over the time in a game, like when you clean a abandoned area and voosh, 12 hours passed.

Exactly. At least a few quests would be nice.

 

[MatMaster]

Bump

 

[ImprovizoR]

It's been established very early on that if a vampire doesn't want to be found there's not much to do about it. Ultimately the only thing left were the choices in the end. Either go to the Land of a Thousand Fables or go see the Unseen Elder. There are no other alternatives. Three days of questing that leads nowhere is the kind of stuff that Bioware does in their RPG's to artificially make the game last longer. I'm glad that CDPR didn't fall into that trap.

 

[MatMaster]

It's been established very early on that if a vampire doesn't want to be found there's not much to do about it. Ultimately the only thing left were the choices in the end. Either go to the Land of a Thousand Fables or go see the Unseen Elder. There are no other alternatives. Three days of questing that leads nowhere is the kind of stuff that Bioware does in their RPG's to artificially make the game last longer. I'm glad that CDPR didn't fall into that trap.

There are many alternatives to what you pointed. Besides, if you have to skip three days in a story, that probably means it's poorly written. All it takes is some decent writing and good imagination. Those quests wouldn't have to be pointless. And for sure, they would expand the story and potentially, make it more interesting. As I mentioned earlier, it seems that the developers made a big mistake while writing and designing the main story of BaW, or they cut some content because they had too little time to work on it. Although there are many other possibilities. Either way, this has to be fixed. More gameplay in The Witcher series is always more fun.

 

[Yeiiow]

Very fair point, i recently saw an indepth analysis of the game that touched on the same point. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuhE_P951Jc&index=1&list=LL4C9HERHGo6xs4q70J3LqiQ

I would love if the developers fixed the issue at some point, yet another reason to keep demanding an Enhanced Edition.

 

[ImprovizoR]

There are many alternatives to what you pointed.

Such as?

Besides, if you have to skip three days in a story, that probably means it's poorly written. All it takes is some decent writing and good imagination.

All it takes is to rewrite one scene to have Dettlaff give Syanna just 24h instead of three days. And boom, problem that you think exists is immediately solved.

It's really not a problem that you think it is. And even if it were, I just showed you how easy it would be to fix it without having to create entirely new content to fill in those 72h.

 

[MatMaster]

Such as?


All it takes is to rewrite one scene to have Dettlaff give Syanna just 24h instead of three days. And boom, problem that you think exists is immediately solved.

It's really not a problem that you think it is. And even if it were, I just showed you how easy it would be to fix it without having to create entirely new content to fill in those 72h.

One alternative I could think of would start with Regis and Geralt going to the cemetery to discuss their further actions(right after finding Syanna). Then something that halts their efforts towards finding Dettlaff (or solving the problem of the beast) happens.

What you do not understand is that the problem is not hard to solve. I just oppose lazy writing and leaving plot holes unfixed. Giving her ONE day instead of THREE days is just that. I merely suggest that the developers fix the plot holes that almost *ruined* this expansion's main storyline for me and made it much less enjoyable for many other players.
I suggest that you play through this expansion again. Look at how certain characters act before the end of the mandragora soiree and after it. There was, in some places a small and in many places - a huge, in my opinion, undesirable change in writing style. You could see that they wanted to end the story quicker than they planned or something else went wrong.
Also they promised us romance in this expansion and all we got was a forced, unnatural sex scene with Syanna.]
I, and many, many other players would like to see these issues addressed by the developers.

 

[ImprovizoR]

One alternative I could think of would start with Regis and Geralt going to the cemetery to discuss their further actions(right after finding Syanna). Then something that halts their efforts towards finding Dettlaff (or solving the problem of the beast) happens.

So something happens? That's all you've got?

What you do not understand is that the problem is not hard to solve.

I never said that it's hard to solve. In fact I'm the one arguing that it's easy to solve. And unlike you I've presented an actual easy solution. All you managed to come up with is "something happens". You're the one who finds it hard to solve.

And of course something happens. Something always happens in a story. The question is, can that something be interesting or even relevant enough to warrant an actual quest about it. And the answer in this case is no because it's been established that they can't find a vampire if he doesn't want to be found. That's the only "something happens" that needs to exist in this story. Trying to find someone even though you know that you only have two choices would be a futile attempt that players don't have to go through. And that's why nothing happens during those three days. Movies, TV shows and books do this kind of stuff all the time. So instead of making the player go through all the work without getting any results, the most rational solution to your imaginary problem would be to give Syanna 24h instead of thee days.

I just oppose lazy writing and leaving plot holes unfixed. Giving her ONE day instead of THREE days is just that.

How is that a plot hole or lazy writing? Is there a law that says you have to give people three days?

 

[sv3672]

Also they promised us romance in this expansion and all we got was a forced, unnatural sex scene with Syanna.

They did not promise that the romance will be good.

In any case, regardless of whether this issue is worth fixing, it is rather unlikely now that anything would be done about it. The developers have already confirmed it that they have no plans to release any more expansions, DLC, enhanced edition, modding tools, or even bug fixes. In other words, the game is finished. And even when it was still actively worked on, the only content patch it received was some small dialogues and expanded Geralt voice set, so the addition of new main quests after the game is already 2 years old is unfortunately not something that I would realistically expect to happen.

 

[MatMaster]

They did not promise that the romance will be good.

In any case, regardless of whether this issue is worth fixing, it is rather unlikely now that anything would be done about it. The developers have already confirmed it that they have no plans to release any more expansions, DLC, enhanced edition, modding tools, or even bug fixes. In other words, the game is finished. And even when it was still actively worked on, the only content patch it received was some small dialogues and expanded Geralt voice set, so the addition of new main quests after the game is already 2 years old is unfortunately not something that I would realistically expect to happen.

Nonetheless, we, the players, should do all we can to bring the developers' attention towards this problem (if we want to) and at least hope that they will fix it. It doesn't cost us much to do so and there is always a chance. If they see popular support for this problem, they will very likely address the issue in some way. I would at least like a developer to take a position in regards to this situation.
So hopefully, we will see the issue gain popular support and maybe someday, something will happen.

P.S.: The expansion itself is less than one year old, remember that.

 

[MatMaster]

Bump

 

[m_dl]

Good Lord, I know this post is super old, but I came "late" as I've just finished the DLC a couple of days ago for the first time. Hoping it's okay to comment on such an old post, I'd like to drop my 2 cents here. I couldn't agree more with OP. In my opinion, Geralt and Regis could have easily found Syanna before the 3 days were up. I mean, Geralt came to the conclusion of asking Damien in how much time? 3 minutes? They could have gone to the prison, seen that Syanna wasn't there, discussed with Damien, something like that. Or they could have sent a raven to Dettlaff? It seemed to me like that was the way they let him know that they brought Syanna to Tesham Mutna. So why not use the same way to deliver a message, "hey, let's meet and talk this down", or set some trap of some sort, for example in the very same cage Regis locked himself, before the three days were up? Maybe even after retrieving Syanna to lure him and force him to reason down?

I really enjoyed this expansion, don't get me wrong, but I can't shake off the feeling that the writers ran out of time. Like someone said, after finding Syanna both Annarietta and Dettlaff made a 180 which felt very weird to me to be honest. I mean, after the party at Orianna's Annarietta was all about how Dettlaff is a nice guy, and concerned about his missing lover just seconds before Geralt and Regis told her about Syanna being Rhena (and by the way, how come she wasn't puzzled as to why Regis was with Geralt at the castle assault?).

So I would most definitely love another path, a filler that allows the player to do something in those "3 days/week", and maybe one where you could actually prevent the vampire invasion, which in my opinion felt as if they forced Dettlaff's hand just so they could get over with him.

 

[SigilFey]

Good Lord, I know this post is super old, but I came "late" as I've just finished the DLC a couple of days ago for the first time. Hoping it's okay to comment on such an old post, I'd like to drop my 2 cents here. I couldn't agree more with OP. In my opinion, Geralt and Regis could have easily found Syanna before the 3 days were up. I mean, Geralt came to the conclusion of asking Damien in how much time? 3 minutes? They could have gone to the prison, seen that Syanna wasn't there, discussed with Damien, something like that. Or they could have sent a raven to Dettlaff? It seemed to me like that was the way they let him know that they brought Syanna to Tesham Mutna. So why not use the same way to deliver a message, "hey, let's meet and talk this down", or set some trap of some sort, for example in the very same cage Regis locked himself, before the three days were up? Maybe even after retrieving Syanna to lure him and force him to reason down?

I really enjoyed this expansion, don't get me wrong, but I can't shake off the feeling that the writers ran out of time. Like someone said, after finding Syanna both Annarietta and Dettlaff made a 180 which felt very weird to me to be honest. I mean, after the party at Orianna's Annarietta was all about how Dettlaff is a nice guy, and concerned about his missing lover just seconds before Geralt and Regis told her about Syanna being Rhena (and by the way, how come she wasn't puzzled as to why Regis was with Geralt at the castle assault?).

So I would most definitely love another path, a filler that allows the player to do something in those "3 days/week", and maybe one where you could actually prevent the vampire invasion, which in my opinion felt as if they forced Dettlaff's hand just so they could get over with him.

That's a worthy necro -- no worries! I didn't mind the ending so much. Thematically (logic aside), I think it feels right. It is, perhaps, a bit abrupt. I'll compare it to Endgame:

Spoiler

I thought the narrative arc between Dr. Strange and Ironman was spectacular! What a great idea!!! And the execution -- wow! Well done!!! When Strange expresses to Tony, "If I tell you what happens...it won't happen." Then simply looks at Tony later in the battle and holds up his finger, implying, "Only one more person needs to die," that really drives home the tragic irony of the one character who just wanted to live in peace needing to make that sacrifice -- and the fact that Tony Stark, despite his origins, was truly willing to do it -- phenomenal moment!

You know what would have worked better? Not having that arc begun and resolved within about 30 minutes. What it needed was for Strange to have introduced, "If I tell you what happens...it won't happen," during Infinity War...or perhaps at the very beginning of Endgame in the form of a flashback to a point before Strange vanished. That way, the energy would have been able to snowball over the course of the rest of the story to hit like 1 million tons at the end.

Reality, though, is that endings are hard. Often, the pacing errors that exist won't make themselves apparent until I've written the resolution, given it a few weeks to digest, and looked back on it to realize..."@#$%". Then, the REAL editing begins. Often, that amount of time just doesn't exist with anything carrying a deadline. (Other times, I just won't see it. )

 

[m_dl]

That's a worthy necro -- no worries! I didn't mind the ending so much. Thematically (logic aside), I think it feels right. It is, perhaps, a bit abrupt. I'll compare it to Endgame:

Spoiler

I thought the narrative arc between Dr. Strange and Ironman was spectacular! What a great idea!!! And the execution -- wow! Well done!!! When Strange expresses to Tony, "If I tell you what happens...it won't happen." Then simply looks at Tony later in the battle and holds up his finger, implying, "Only one more person needs to die," that really drives home the tragic irony of the one character who just wanted to live in peace needing to make that sacrifice -- and the fact that Tony Stark, despite his origins, was truly willing to do it -- phenomenal moment!

You know what would have worked better? Not having that arc begun and resolved within about 30 minutes. What it needed was for Strange to have introduced, "If I tell you what happens...it won't happen," during Infinity War...or perhaps at the very beginning of Endgame in the form of a flashback to a point before Strange vanished. That way, the energy would have been able to snowball over the course of the rest of the story to hit like 1 million tons at the end.

Reality, though, is that endings are hard. Often, the pacing errors that exist won't make themselves apparent until I've written the resolution, given it a few weeks to digest, and looked back on it to realize..."@#$%". Then, the REAL editing begins. Often, that amount of time just doesn't exist with anything carrying a deadline. (Other times, I just won't see it. )

I get your point! I'm not a fan of the Avengers so I haven't really understood the references, but I got your message. I think I'm experiencing the "post-game blues", so that's why I'm upset. But, especially considering that it was Geralt's final adventure, they could have maybe invested a bit more in the storyline? I mean, HoS was absolutely brilliant and in BaW the "after party" at Orianna's was genius. I really loved that moment. So I keep on feeling that the second part of the game could be improved