Blue Stripes spam too consistent (?)

[Sensimilius]

First of all, the whole concept of relying on just a single card (played 16 times over during a game) I find to be poor gameplay design as it's just boring and always the exact same... but oh well some ppl think it's sexy so I won't judge.
Now the other problem is just that you can't fight against it, with the zeal commander ability he does everything he needs within his own turn so you can't react to it obviously during his turn. And there is NO risk of not drawing the cards you need with the ultra-consistent game design the devs went with this game, John Natalis into Amphibious Assault (I mean the whole existence of this combo proves the devs don't really have an idea wtf they're doing lol) + Oneiro + Renewal just in case it ever comes to a 3rd round so u can bring back Pavveta again for more spam FOR THE THIRD TIME doing the exact same thing.
Do you guys think this is a cool game design?

 

[Riven-Twain]

Do you guys think this is a cool game design?

I've never been particularly fond of the Blue Stripes, either, so I can appreciate your frustration. I dislike playing against the deck, and other board-swarming decks as well. They are difficult to counter, unless one has tailored one's own deck against the tactic, and, even then, I've only ever had limited success breaking the chain. Personally, I've long felt the spawn mechanic is too easily manipulated to laughable proportions, and I would have preferred if we could have stuck with simply summoning units from the deck, rather than creating them out of thin air.

 

[Slizzl]

They were okay when they could actually brick and were hard to pull off. The echo tutors ruined them just as they ruined so much else.

 

[Draconifors]

Saw it on a stream yesterday, and it wasn't unbeatable. Ran into it myself today, and while I'll have to check playgwent.com to see who won*, I didn't have a problem with the matchup. In Casual, too.

I would say Echo tutors in NR are a problem, rather than any particular deck.

*I won 2-0, with a mediocre Nova deck, apparently. Despite the opponent playing Commandos twice and getting good cards in general.

 

[Riven-Twain]

I would say Echo tutors in NR are a problem, rather than any particular deck.

Agreed. Commandos aren't unconquerable, though frequently challenging. Echo, on the other hand, has certainly proved a nuisance for me in several matches. Occasional, I've managed to banish the dashed card in time, with our wee friend the Squirrel -- but including him in a deck often presents a challenge of its own.

 

[Draconifors]

Occasional, I've managed to banish the dashed card in time, with our wee friend the Squirrel -- but including him in a deck often presents a challenge of its own.

Squirreling an AA or Oneiromancy always feels good, but like you said including Squirrel isn't that easy despite it being cheap. Super low tempo, and it can easily end up being a useless card when the opponent doesn't have an Echo or some other card that's likely to be reused (like Yghern or Crowmother, for example).

 

[DRK3]

I was (and still am) a fan of the concept of building something to have an explosive play later on, but before MM expansion, the BS were reasonable, as you had to pay a lot for consistency, reducing the power of the deck.

Now, with AA and Oneiro + 3 leader charges, its just ridiculous, same power as the greediest versions but with even more consistency than anything you could build prior to MM. And the provision reduction on thinning packages pushed it even more into 'broken' level.

Yes, it can be beat, it can even be beat without countering their strategy, but for that you need a meta deck, something that can put up a really strong R1 due to being so important to win it (and pushing R2 is even riskier because BS on all 3 turns its even easier to do and its impossible to guess which version it is)

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

Well, I don't know if the deck is that great. I finally opened "Princess Pavetta" out of a Premium keg today, so I thought I would finally try out my own version of the deck; admittedly, I am still missing both "Roche: Merciless" and "Renew". Anyway, even though I selected Casual, my first match was against a meta Overwhelming Hunger deck, and I was soundly defeated, despite playing fairly well and even getting the red coin; I passed early to avoid losing card advantage in Round 1 when he overcommitted and immediately used my "Korathi Heatwave" on his Scenario in Round 3. I realize that deck is absurdly broken at the moment, but I never even had a chance with Blue Stripes. I won't argue against it's incredible consistency (though that's true of literally everything in Gwent), but I don't really think the deck is strong enough to compete against any of the dozen or so meta decks.

Edit: Upon playing some more, I've come to the conclusion that Blue Stripes with Inspired Zeal is basically a worse version of Cerys Lippy with Ursine Ritual that requires even more commitment when deckbuilding.

 

[sfruzz]

I have yet to play against a single "Blue Stripe" deck this season (Rank 2). I mostly face Monster decks and control NR, so just for the sake variety I would welcome some "Blue Stripe" shenanigans.

Do you guys think this is a cool game design?

Yes, I think it is a cool design. Only SK has something similar with Lippy and Cerys. It's not pure swarm like: elves, firesworn, NR frigates, NR curse deck, and various Monster swarm decks. The "Blue Stripe" deck has it's own flavour to it.

But I'm biased, I enjoy building that sort of deck. I usually play as greedy as possible!

For comparison, I don't like the elves deck. Play an elf, play a second elf, play all your elves. The "Blue Stripes" is a combo deck and you can try various versions with and without Renew / with and without Draug.

There are some soft counter to the deck, like the Squirrel to negate an Echo card or Pavetta if you fear Renew. In the worst case scenario is an 8 point play, if you only get rid of a Blue Stripe Commando. With all those monster decks around and echo cards, it's hard not to find value with the Squirrel.

 

[DRK3]

Well, I don't know if the deck is that great. I finally opened "Princess Pavetta" out of a Premium keg today, so I thought I would finally try out my own version of the deck; admittedly, I am still missing both "Roche: Merciless" and "Renew". Anyway, even though I selected Casual, my first match was against a meta Overwhelming Hunger deck, and I was soundly defeated, despite playing fairly well and even getting the red coin; I passed early to avoid losing card advantage in Round 1 when he overcommitted and immediately used my "Korathi Heatwave" on his Scenario in Round 3. I realize that deck is absurdly broken at the moment, but I never even had a chance with Blue Stripes. I won't argue against it's incredible consistency (though that's true of literally everything in Gwent), but I don't really think the deck is strong enough to compete against any of the dozen or so meta decks.

Edit: Upon playing some more, I've come to the conclusion that Blue Stripes with Inspired Zeal is basically a worse version of Cerys Lippy with Ursine Ritual that requires even more commitment when deckbuilding.

A BS deck played with caution and with a good hand R1 not only plays for good tempo but it also gives 0 chance for you to counter ir in anyway - using Roche Merciless R1 and one zeal charge lets them summon 2 BS at the same time, you cant counter them both without using leader abilities or having some very specific damage setup.

Then there's the dilemma: you should win R1 against BS, but if you play into the round, you are giving them time to build more BS commandos with scouts, each play at least 8pts, while if you pass early they can keep building them but wont be able to push R2 anymore.

This is not a case of one deck being a straight upgrade of the other - the Lippy Cerys is definitely less committal, but at max you have 4 shieldmaidens at the end, while a BS deck when it goes well on earlier rounds can play 7-8 BS Commandos at once, basically a guaranteed win on a short round even if down a card and if not countered with like a Igni or Schirru.

This is an image of last year, when BSCommandos were still 6prov, and Oneiro, AA and even Matta didnt exist yet. Nowadays its much easier and cheaper to do this.

 

[sfruzz]

This is an image of last year, when BSCommandos were still 6prov, and Oneiro, AA and even Matta didnt exist yet. Nowadays its much easier and cheaper to do this.

Oh no, this thread is achieving the opposite of what's intended. Now that I see all those nice BSCommando, I feel the urge to play the deck.

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

when it goes well on earlier rounds can play 7-8 BS Commandos at once

I guess that's the part which is confusing me. How are you getting 8 or even 7 Commandos in the final round? There are only two base units, and even with 2 Scouts, a Reinforcements, and Roche's ability, that's still just 6 Commandos. Are there more cards to the combo that I and probably others are not familiar with? That would definitely explain why I've never seen anyone win with the deck.
Edit: I just noticed that you included Necromancy for one of the Scouts, so that explains Commando #7; although, I'm still wondering where the 8th comes from.

Also, if this deck or anything similar ever becomes too theatening, they could just change it so that all Spawned units are immediately given Doomed. It would make sense, given that they're basically Tokens, and then, Princess Pavetta/Lippy/etc. would only be able to salvage the original thinning units, unless of course a player opted to add a bunch of Purifies to their deck. It would make the mechanic much harder to abuse.

 

[DRK3]

I guess that's the part which is confusing me. How are you getting 8 or even 7 Commandos in the final round? There are only two base units, and even with 2 Scouts, a Reinforcements, and Roche's ability, that's still just 6 Commandos. Are there more cards to the combo that I and probably others are not familiar with? That would definitely explain why I've never seen anyone win with the deck.
Edit: I just noticed that you included Necromancy for one of the Scouts, so that explains Commando #7; although, I'm still wondering where the 8th comes from.

Also, if this deck or anything similar ever becomes too theatening, they could just change it so that all Spawned units are immediately given Doomed. It would make sense, given that they're basically Tokens, and then, Princess Pavetta/Lippy/etc. would only be able to salvage the original thinning units, unless of course a player opted to add a bunch of Purifies to their deck. It would make the mechanic much harder to abuse.

The version i was using was an 'all out BS deck' in DRK3 fashion, so yes it had necromancy, and i think Operator for an extra one (you could include Muzzle or Blue Dream to snatch the opponents created BS but that is too expensive, only for memes, trying to get as many BS as possible)

But the regular way to get 7 BSCommandos is using Adalia for an extra BSScout, it plays for 11, not to mention the carryover so its definitely worth it and its not something only i do, ive seen other veterans use her on BS decks.

The deck probably wont get more threatening than it is, and if its not considered a threat now its because there are "worse offenders" currently in NR, but what they all have in common is traced back to AA.

 

[Six-Sided-Prism]

But the regular way to get 7 BSCommandos is using Adalia for an extra BSScout, it plays for 11, not to mention the carryover so its definitely worth it and its not something only i do, ive seen other veterans use her on BS decks.

Thanks. I don't why I forgot about Adalia. I guess it's because she's usually only used to copy engines. And to be fair, I've only faced Blue Stripes decks a handful of times over the course of my playing Gwent; I just remember that I won every time. Hopefully, I figure out how to win with it myself because after losing nonstop today, it certainly looks like Inspired Zeal might be the hardest Mastery, surpassing even Invigorate and Stockpile.

 

[Pacifixer]

Recently i played a lot of Blue Stripes (i'm not a big fan of this deck, but it's the only way of getting Inspired Zeal mastery). This deck isn't as strong as you think - you have only one win condition, if you fail, you have nothing; it can't compare to many meta decks; even with 4 tutors you can sometimes get unplayable R1 hand; Squirel on Paveta is instant loss.
I have to agree that Echoes in this deck are way better than any tutor shoud ever be, and the complete lack of interactivity due to leader ability is pretty stupid.
I like the idea behind this deck/archetipe a lot, it's different and it's strategic, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[DRK3]

Thanks. I don't why I forgot about Adalia. I guess it's because she's usually only used to copy engines. And to be fair, I've only faced Blue Stripes decks a handful of times over the course of my playing Gwent; I just remember that I won every time. Hopefully, I figure out how to win with it myself because after losing nonstop today, it certainly looks like Inspired Zeal might be the hardest Mastery, surpassing even Invigorate and Stockpile.

Invigorate and Stockpile are definitely way harder to complete Mastery than Inspired Zeal, although Stockpile seems to finally be popular - not in standard mode but in draft. And in certain seasonals that might favor those abilities somehow, they can be less frustrating than doing them on standard.

Its true that when IZ stopped being able to target neutral order units to give zeal, it basically got limited to being the Blue Stripes deck, but its not entirely true - you can do any NR deck you want with it, but include 3/4 of these to synergize with zeal charges: Seltkirk, Anseis, Bloody Baron, Elephant, Draug (for revenants) and my favourite - Vissegerd.

Recently i did a no BS Inspired Zeal and it had no trouble winning, how? Carried by the best bronze NR has - Kerack Frigate - and really focus on the swarm aspect, it's nothing new for me, i did similar decks with Uprising back when MM launched, but its the best way to take advantage of Voymir, Vissegerd and Scythemen (here's a sample

Unfortunately i dont have a screenshot of the Vissegerds i got with +10 charges with this deck, but you can see how it pulls that off easily. I also have Draug and Revenants in this deck, which werent even a win condition, i could use it on R1 and still win R3 with swarm tactics alone.

 

[Sensimilius]

Recently i played a lot of Blue Stripes (i'm not a big fan of this deck, but it's the only way of getting Inspired Zeal mastery). This deck isn't as strong as you think - you have only one win condition, if you fail, you have nothing; it can't compare to many meta decks; even with 4 tutors you can sometimes get unplayable R1 hand; Squirel on Paveta is instant loss.

No, it's not an instant loss, maybe only if it gets to Round 3 but you still have the chance to win 2:0 if you got the first round, also not everyone have a Squirrel in their deck and as DRK there is a version of the deck that doesn't include Renewal so banishing her after she already did her part of bringing the BSs back into the deck might simply do nothing and alsoooo if you won the 1st round you can just pass into R3 with all the BS still in your deck. :]

 

[ya1]

Renew Commandos are the gimmickiest and the most rng-abusive. In my library, there is kind of a mixture of the Draug version (similar to what Magpie131 took to the last Open) and the engine-infused version from TEB snapshot (with Frigates). Putting all your wincons in one basket - like the Renew version does - is not good and leads to your good old hyper-binary gameplay when it's unbeatable when it works and unwinnable when it doesn't.

As for if they are too consistent, yes, I think so. But it should not matter so much. IMO consistency balancing should not be the ultimate balancing tool the way devs are making it. If something is broken then it's broken. Just because it's only broken some of the time does not change the fact that it's broken when it's broken. And, yeah, Commandos do feel broken quite often.

 

[Morph3uXD]

I hate this archetype as it is now, the echo cards gave a lot of consistency to this deck, if the opponent has omniomancy, or Roche, you only win if you have a perfect hand in the first round.

 

[OuterSpaceDoggo]

I personally hate this deck as much as I hate the NR revenant control: consistent, can bleed you easily, can 2-0 you easily and hardly bricks. For me NR just became a really annoying faction to play against, having almost as much control as NG except it slams points on the board like there's no tomorrow.
The only way I can justify people playing this deck it's because you just want an easy win, just don't expect people to give you GG's after.
I've only won once using a personal deck with Igni and even then it was an hard fought round and I was just lucky enough to draw geralt.