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(Bookreaders) Your opinion about book-Ciri and game-Ciri

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H

hedop

Senior user
#81
Jun 20, 2015
warbaby2 said:
True, the most a studded leather jacket (Geralt's only "armor" in the books) would protect of would be a short cutting blade... any serious form of piercing or cutting weapon would go right through... not to mention a blunt weapon like a hammer or flail. Witcher's wear leather because it's convenient, not protective.

In the game, however, they wear thick, padded leather, chain, and/or plates of boiled hide and steel... it's a design choice, but not really "canon".
Click to expand...
Like I stated before boilt and hardened and studded leather can be an extremely potent armor especially if you consider the Witcher's fighting style which will reduce most direct hits to glancing blows. Furthermore no Witcher would fall to an attack with a hammer or even a war hammer given the weapon's either limited reach or laborous process to hit. To actually pierce anyone with a bastard or even a long sword requires immense strength which is why those weapons were mainly employed to hit each other. Most significant injuries would have been done through blunt forced trauma which you would even suffer through chainmail or plate armor given that the force will be transfered from the armor to your body. Piercing mail or even leather with anything other than a short sword or a seax would have been very difficult and slashing with large swords rarely lead to cutting wounds unless you were already defenseless.

Again I point to the Japanese. Most of the samurai armor was made from leather or even cloth and extremely potent at stopping cuts and piercing damage, they furthermore employed padding below the armor to stop arrowpiercing.

So in fact a proper leather jerkin or leather jacket like worn by Geralt in the books is more than enough protection for someone who will mainly deal with bites (monsters) or glancing blows or slashes (humans). Check on your medieval military history boys and girls before you put such outrageous claims forward. Even after the invention of the chainmail the leather padding beneath consisting of a leather jerkin of hard boiled leather stayed prevelent.
 
warbaby2

warbaby2

Forum veteran
#82
Jun 20, 2015
Willowhugger said:
Spell-o-tape.

Lots and lots of spell-o-tape.

And where are the Ciri alternate outfits, gosh darni it!

I'd also love a Ciri skin for playing as Geralt!
Click to expand...
Apparently the is an alternate outfit coming for her...

https://cdn.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/000/594/589/large/klaus-wittmann-ciri-redesign.jpg?1427927073

...I sincerely hope it's the first. Not because it covers her the most, but because it looks the coolest. ;)

hedop said:
So in fact a proper leather jerkin or leather jacket like worn by Geralt in the books is more than enough protection for someone who will mainly deal with bites (monsters) or glancing blows or slashes (humans). Check on your medieval military history boys and girls before you put such outrageous claims forward. Even after the invention of the chainmail the leather padding beneath consisting of a leather jerkin of hard boiled leather stayed prevelent.
Click to expand...
I've been a HEMA fighter for a couple of years now, and you are right, BUT Geralt isn't wearing boiled leather plate, a padded jerkin, gambeson or anything of that sort in the books, he's wearing a simple leather jacket with studded arms, which doesn't protect him from anything serious, considering the numerous times he is stabbed, scratched or bitten when an enemy does actually hit him.
 
Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#83
Jun 20, 2015
One is EERIELY like I how I describe the female protagonist of my fantasy novel coming out in 2016.

Then again, I totally ripped off Ciri's look and put her in practical armor with scars.

:)
 
H

hedop

Senior user
#84
Jun 20, 2015
Sakai88 said:
I'm guessing there's a difference between a simple leather jacket and a proper military-grade armor. In the books, Geralt himself not wearing any armor at all, so how is it makes sense for Ciri to be some kind of female samurai? She wears something what a person in her situation (on the run and without money) would wear. Simple, basic, something you can throw on and off quickly.
Click to expand...
In the books Geralt is wearing a Leather Jerkin. It's similar to his attire in Witcher 1. That has nothing to with military grade which is not a distinction you can make anyway. It's simply not just cured leather. It's boild and therefore hardened leather. Less flexible but thicker and more withstanding and perfectly suited to wear in wet conditions as well. It makes sense for Geralt to wear just a Jerkin and leave his arms free as the main idea is to protect your vital organs.

Ciri is neither on the run the whole time and constantly nor is she out of money. She has several means to get money even in the game and several people helping her with the means to provide her with fresh clothes and even protective gear so that's not excuse. Even a furvest with sufficient thickness and uncured would have been an amazing piece of armor for her fighting style and she probably could have gotten hold of that on Skellige in a jiffy.

---------- Updated at 11:28 PM ----------

warbaby2 said:
Apparently the is an alternate outfit coming for her...

https://cdn.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/000/594/589/large/klaus-wittmann-ciri-redesign.jpg?1427927073

...I sincerely hope it's the first. Not because it covers her the most, but because it looks the coolest. ;)
Click to expand...
The first looks cool but would just not fit her style but it makes her a bit of a Geralt look a like and I like that. The second is actually pretty cool but why on earth would you include cleavage in a leather jerkin? The third looks like Geena Davis in that awful pirate movie she made and the fourth looks like Xena the warrior princess.

---------- Updated at 11:30 PM ----------

lwp said:
I know right? I love this outfit. Much better than a certain *cough* alternate look dlc.
Click to expand...
That alternate look just looks wrong... her face has this Mike-Tysonesque tattoo shite and that dress... seriously... she wants to be low key in Novigrad? I mean if she starts working at Pasiflora... I get the dress.
 
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Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#85
Jun 20, 2015
"My response?"

1. That is totally Regina's look from Wraith Knight.

2. Has Ciri become a pirate?

3. That outfit looks ludicrous on a way I can't fully articulate.

4. That way I can articulate as she's made an evening dress from leather armor.
 
H

hedop

Senior user
#86
Jun 20, 2015


Told you I have seen that third outfit somewhere before ;)
 

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Sakai88

Sakai88

Forum regular
#87
Jun 20, 2015
hedop said:
In the books Geralt is wearing a Leather Jerkin. It's similar to his attire in Witcher 1. That has nothing to with military grade which is not a distinction you can make anyway. It's simply not just cured leather. It's boild and therefore hardened leather. Less flexible but thicker and more withstanding and perfectly suited to wear in wet conditions as well. It makes sense for Geralt to wear just a Jerkin and leave his arms free as the main idea is to protect your vital organs.

Ciri is neither on the run the whole time and constantly nor is she out of money. She has several means to get money even in the game and several people helping her with the means to provide her with fresh clothes and even protective gear so that's not excuse. Even a furvest with sufficient thickness and uncured would have been an amazing piece of armor for her fighting style and she probably could have gotten hold of that on Skellige in a jiffy.
Click to expand...
You make a lot of assumptions to justify your conclusion. As far as i remember, it never says in the books whether it's boiled leather or not. It's just a "leather jacket", that's it. Also Geralt in the books is piss poor most of the time, so i doubt he would have the money for any kind of real protaction. And the bit about Ciri is just one big assumption. She "might" not be on the run the whole time, she "might" have had the oppurtunity to get some money. Well then i can say that maybe she feels perfectly fine with the outfit she has, so it does make perfect sense. And about fighting style, do you mean teleporting behind someones back? :) Because that's how i fight with her in the game. :)
 
H

hedop

Senior user
#88
Jun 20, 2015
Sakai88 said:
You make a lot of assumptions to justify your conclusion. As far as i remember, it never says in the books whether it's boiled leather or not. It's just a "leather jacket", that's it. Also Geralt in the books is piss poor most of the time, so i doubt he would have the money for any kind of real protaction. And the bit about Ciri is just one big assumption. She "might" not be on the run the whole time, she "might" have had the oppurtunity to get some money. Well then i can say that maybe she feels perfectly fine with the outfit she has, so it does make perfect sense. And about fighting style, do you mean teleporting behind someones back? :) Because that's how i fight with her in the game. :)
Click to expand...
She meets the baron who offers and gives her money and wins a horse from him and stays with him for some time. There is to my certain knowledge a quartermaster and an armorer in the keep and several merchants and I doubt the baron would have said no to her wanting some new clothes. She meets up with Dandelion who again is in posession of quite a bit of money, enough to actually buy her some exotic dresses and the likes. Furthermore she meets Dudu who is a partner in a thriving and massive mercantile enterprise and again not hard on money, furthermore Novigrad is full of armorer and merchants and she spends a considerable amount of time there. She also spends quite a bit of time on Skellige known for its armorers and blacksmiths and an island which is known for its furcoats.

Geralt is piss poor but never scrounges on wetstones, repairs to his swords, food for his horse etc. He scrounges on personal luxuries and sleeps in ditches out in the open, eating what he catches or kills. He also has several friends among dwarfen merchants, a very wealthy sorceress sugar mommy who regulary upgrades the sum of his monster contracts from afar, another sorceress sugar mommy in Triss Merigold, mother Nenekka who provides him with connections, sleeping arrangements and food if necessary, an extremely wealthy sort of sidekick in Dandelion who is a tenured professor at Oxenfurt and is friendly with the Dryads who are apt hunters and live of the lands. He is also in Kaer Morhen nearly every winter a place in which despite of it's ruined state are still a lot of swords and armor stacked from days in the past. So I'd say if he actually needed money or any means of buying something he would have several people who would be more than willing to pay his way if need be, who might actually do so without him asking.

It doesn't need to say what it is. It's either cured leather which is basically normal leather or it's boiled. If it's boiled it will be some sort of jerkin or vest and probably be studded. It's simply implied. Sapkowsky's works are set in a more or less realistic medieval setting which means that people who fight will wear a certain form of protection. Witchers aren't stupid or suicidal. They don't only need protection against humans but even more so against monsters. The assumption that Geralt fights against Griffins, Striga's, Vampires, Drowners etc. in a simply jacket or without is ludicriss as even a witcher can die from bloodloss so he would at least wear basic protection against claws and bites hence the boiled or cured leather. I do not need George R. R. Martin to describe what Rob Stark wears in battle to know that it is plate armor because again he novels are set in a realistic medieval setting in terms of armor and weapons and fighting techniques.
 
Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
M

mbaker51591

Rookie
#89
Jun 20, 2015
Isn't it Ciri join a gang that wears high heels that's why she wears a high heels in the game?

Also her clothing isn't bad at all compared to JRPG. Also giving her armor custom fit is really weird in the north. Except in Skellige due they got female armors. Also w/ Red Baron, the dwarf who is the armorer there is not even a armorer at all. How the hell the Red Baron will give her an armor at all? Unless they ask the skellige woman who they thought just an assistant of the dwarf.

Also Ciri never went to Craite, there allies in Skellige. Ciri accidentally went to Skellige due there escaping the Wild Hunt and Ciri doesn't have proper time to buy a freaking armor there.

In Novigard w/ Dandelion buying her an armor will be expensive and Ciri is somewhat a fugitive.
 
H

hedop

Senior user
#90
Jun 20, 2015
I'm not comparing it to JRPG I'm comparing it to other women even in the same game. Take Cerys, take even her mom Yennefer etc. Why would giving her armor be weird in the north? It doesn't matter if they have female warriors or not. She is one and that's enough. So? what's your point about the Red Baron's armorer? He is not a real one and any and all orders were made by his "apprentice". So? They have done that for at least 10 years if you paid any attention to the story so naturally she would go to Fergus and then his apprentice would make the armor.

She didn't need to go to Crach or any of the an Craites. Every Island on Skellige has a different clan living on it so they don't really communicate with each other hence every island isbasically economically independant and produces everything they needt hemselves so she could have gotten a fur coat in any place on Skellige.

Expensive? Dandelion has shit loads of money basically lying around plus Dudu has money and for a fugitive she took her sweet time in Novigrad.
 
C

cryosx

Rookie
#91
Jun 20, 2015
Realistically speaking, if a woman wanted to order armor during Medieval times how long would it take to craft?
 
H

hedop

Senior user
#92
Jun 20, 2015
Realistically speaking it depends on the armorer, what exactly she wants, the materials available etc. For a plate armor it can take months. A good chainmail would take weeks as well but we are not talking about that. We are talking about a leather jerkin in Ciri's size. She is pretty tall so chances are a smaller men's jerkin would fit her and chances are any self respecting armorer would have something like that in stock.
 
M

mbaker51591

Rookie
#93
Jun 20, 2015
Ciri spent a small time in Skellige due she is recovering her wounds after recovering her would the Wild Hunt attack Ciri. Also how do we know she got money at that time she is been traveling other worlds??

For Velen, they only know Fergus is the famous blacksmith in there world and in the north. Having female warrior in there culture is quite important due the armorer could determine and build an armor for females. Female anatomy is quite different for male anatomy. Yes Ciri could wear some bulky male armor but she is on the run. Also to able to afford an armor at medieval period is freaking expensive. Also why the Hell the Red Baron will buy her an armor??

For Novigard, why the hell they need to steal Sigi's Vault? Why not Dandelion paid Whoreson Jr. if they need Whoreson Jr help?
 
H

hedop

Senior user
#94
Jun 20, 2015
mbaker51591 said:
Ciri spent a small time in Skellige due she is recovering her wounds after recovering her would the Wild Hunt attack Ciri. Also how do we know she got money at that time she is been traveling other worlds??

For Velen, they only know Fergus is the famous blacksmith in there world and in the north. Having female warrior in there culture is quite important due the armorer could determine and build an armor for females. Female anatomy is quite different for male anatomy. Yes Ciri could wear some bulky male armor but she is on the run. Also to able to afford an armor at medieval period is freaking expensive. Also why the Hell the Red Baron will buy her an armor??

For Novigard, why the hell they need to steal Sigi's Vault? Why not Dandelion paid Whoreson Jr. if they need Whoreson Jr help?
Click to expand...
She doesn't need a plate of armor. I never said she wanted a plate of armor. Furthermore anatomy is irrelevant since any armor or chainmail would be made for the exact meassurements of the wearer, so if she wanted chainmail or plate Fergus would take her measurements and that's that. I never talk about that though I'm talking about leather armor which is cheap, easy and fast to produce and is usually on stock with any armorer. Why would he buy her armor? Because he liked her very much... he didn't even bulk losing his favourite horse to her.

They need to steal Sigi's stuff because Whoreson is working for Radovid who intends to destabilize Novigrad to take it over. The only realistic way of doing that is to take the financial ressources of 3 of the 4 main players in Novigrad which are stored in Sigi's vault. That's why Whoreson wants them to rob the Vault not because he wants the money but because he is acting on behalf of Radovid. Dandelion has quite a substantial amount of money as you can tell from him being able to furnish and renovate the Rosemary and Thyme just like that and from several other factors, meaning he could have easily paid for a leather jerkin for Ciri or given her some money. The same holds true for the Baron.
 
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#95
Jun 20, 2015
Women being warriors is an oddity in the world of the Witcher but not an unheard of oddity. Probably because of the looser gender rules due to the existence of Sorceresses and Holy Women being Tanks/Medics.

Say what you will about the Witcherverse being a racist hellhole but normal XX chromosome people like Shani can rise to high positions.

And good for it there.

From an out-of-universe perspective, though, is that I like Ciri's outfit. I think it's sexy and covers most everything even if the whole bra strap thing is kind of noticeable (Good for them to have those in Medieval times too!). But they could have done a little better with it like gotten rid of the high heels since I don't think anyone really needed it. I also think the Armored Ciri variant of the DLC is BEAUTIFUL and will definitely be using it once she escapes the Wild Hunt.
 
Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
KingHochmeister

KingHochmeister

Forum veteran
#96
Jun 20, 2015
I personally found the book Ciri to be terribly annoying, her parts in the books were sub-par compared to Geralt's and because of the events she has been through she was pretty much intolerable to read (for me), she started to get a lot better by the end of the books though, which I believe CDPR took that Ciri in that moment of time as a core of her character in Witcher 3.

Sure, the W3-Ciri is a "dumbed-down" version of the book-Ciri, but it made CDPR do the impossible, they made me like Ciri (by changing her a bit, sure, but 5 years is a long time).
 
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T

Tomice158

Rookie
#97
Jun 20, 2015
Of course Ciri's outfit is sexualized, idealized and symbolic. In every videogame ever the devs must make a choice whether they showcase their characters in a realistic or idealized fashion (males AND females!), and usually find a characteristic middle ground in serious games (at least in the west, Asian games tend to be kinda silly). Also, limited ressources lead to each character usually being depicted in a single set of clothes that has to work in each situation (just ask some Skyrim modders how hard it is to create detailed, beautiful and non-clipping outfits comparable to what Ciri wears. I expect several full workdays of a skilled professional for such an outfit).

In full realism mode, Ciri would carry around several bags with personal belongings, would wear rather ragged, unfitting clothes due to being on the run, would probably have lousy hair, bad teeth, smell of sweat, dirt and blood. I exaggerate, but especially in a medieval setting, personal hygiene is hard to come by, and her fate during the last months/years certainly should make her look more like a Syrian refugee than the semi-model she appears ingame.

Instead, Ciri's outfit symbolizes the following things:
- It's a traveller outfit, not a combat suit. Ciri was ever on the run until she reunited with Geralt,Yen & the rest. Only then direct combat/fighting back truly became an option.
- She still cares for her look, hasn't given up herself, is still more than just a desperate fugitive. The wild hunt hasn't broken her yet.
- She is supposed to be relatively attractive. To be perceived as such next to Yen and Triss by players, she can't wear rags.
- She survived by blending into crowds, not by drawing attention and looking threatening (and full military gear on a young women draws attention!)

So to sum it up: She has one iconic outfit due to budget restrictions, and it first and foremost has to tell us things about her. Being plausible in every situation is secondary.



I also heard on several occasions (e.g. from Youtube channels about historic weapons such as scolagladiatoria, Lyndybeige and others) that leather armor is vastly overrated in video games compared to it's historical role. A leather jacket thin/flexible enough for daily use offers almost no protection.
Chainmail instead was awesome against everything but blunt damage and very advanced, well aimed projectiles. Nothing metal-free ever came close. Padded armor was decent if it was several centimeters thick, but then it was exactly as clumsy and impractical as chainmail. Knights in real combat combined both, but they didn't wear this combo every day. Roman soldiers had to be forced to always wear their mail, and often didn't in the late ancient period when discipline bagan to drop.

So IMHO, the first time Ciri would have sensibly considered changing into light chain and some padding underneath (IMO the best combo for an agile swordfighter) would be the battle of Kaer Morhen. But there's no shop or real blacksmith there, and we can't expect that there's a fitting armor lying around. Also, the plan was to keep her out of combat.
This leaves the battle preparations in Novigrad as first real chance for her to aquire a proper combat suit. It would have been awesome if they had replaced her blouse with chain instead of the fur collar, but well, they had their reasons I guess.

_________________________________________


Oh, and to return to the true topic of this thread: I haven't read the books yet, but I'm surprised how many of you judge Ciri in her early teens. Of course she is selfish. She's a child who had a horrible youth. How can it be surprisisng that she is more concerned with finally finding some luck of her own instead of being heroic and selfless?

It's more surprising she turned out to be a sane adult at all. C'mon? Her father killed her mother and gave her away as bargaining chip. Her home was annihilated. She was abducted, abused and raped. Of course she is not entirely charming as a teenager.
 
Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#98
Jun 22, 2015
I really wish Ciri's armor had looked like this.

 
U

UndiscoveredAdv

Rookie
#99
Jun 22, 2015
You never know, there is an alternate look DLC coming (or at least I'm pretty sure there is)! Personally, I'm hoping for something like this:



Credit: http://www.deviantart.com/art/The-Witcher-3-Ciri-FanArt-534799871

Or this:



Credit: http://justanor.deviantart.com/art/TWH-Cirilla-532869916

---------- Updated at 02:20 PM ----------

Not that I don't like Ciri's current outfit, I think it's awesome, high heels (and visible bra strap) aside. It's just that I like more variety with a character's outfit throughout the story, it makes things seem more believable. That's more for later in the game though, her lack of changing clothes is understandable when she's constantly on the run!
 

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Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
Willowhugger

Willowhugger

Forum veteran
#100
Jun 22, 2015
Honestly, I really-really like Chainmail Ciri.
 
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