Bringing back to life The Wild Hunt - Suggestions for new cards and changes

[Ic3Purple]

Bringing back to life The Wild Hunt - Suggestions for new cards and changes

Currently, this deck is pretty dead and out of competitive ranked play by some months already. So I thought about some new cards to add to the deck and some changes.

But first a quick analysis of the deck in its current state.

Putting aside clearing weather, this deck suffer from other 2 things, thinning and low tempo. Reconnaissance for cycling and thinning isn't quite good due to the fact that we have 6 low str cards, such as Wild Hound 4 and Navigator 3. if we consider that hounds are often targeted to prevent navigator to summon other... Machines, Ships, Archers etc can quickly and easily remove the hounds from the board. What am I suggesting? Buffing its Str? not quite sure, but it is an option. If we consider the low tempo, 6 points on the play (providing they don't clear skies... so 4) oh well... What do ya think?

Considering that we are on meta of heavy spam points, I think the buff to hounds str wouldn't be too bad. I.e. NR when playing frost also summon a commando, 3+3 +2 Foltest buff equal to 8, plus 2 damage frost, 10 pt play. Yes, I guess it would be time to show some love to this deck.

To conclude the review, this deck suffer a lot of coin flip too. You always want to go second in every round. Dry passing R1 is an option if u go first, but very bad for deck Thinning and Mulligan (decreasing chances to draw your golds and silvers, increasing chances of bricked hands).

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Card Changes

Here below some personal proposal and a recap of other suggested changes and additions proposed by the players in the current conversation until page 3 (if I missed something make a post). Up to date 3/13/2018. For a more detailed version, do read the rest of conversation untill last page.

Silvers

White Frost - It has a problem with being too low tempo. It should have some STR points. Secondly, make it exclusive WH card (maybe?). No to mention that, if they clear skies after playing WF, u are basically 1-2 card down (depending on the flip coin).

Golds

Vanilla Imlerith, need a rework - Deal 4 Damage, if the target was under frost, destroy it (see the rest of the topic for other possible changes).

Caranthir -Buff its str up to 10, in addition to it, among other options, either attach White Frost effect to him and move two enemies on the frost. P.S, Other suggestions have been mentioned, I just picked a couple. See the rest of the topic

Bronzes

Wild Hunt Navigator - Remove the bind to only WH cards to make it possible to synergise with the Drawners which are great with frost and WH deck. Moreover, this card will find a place in other monsters decks with this change. Otherwise, a new card in the WH archetype that does what Drwaners currently do.

Wild Hunt Hound: Change to 6 str + 2 armor

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Overall the deck also need an increase of cards pulls. Here some Ideas.

New Cards

Dimensional Portal - (Maybe a Silver) - Spawn or play 2 Drakkar ships. As lore-wise, The Drakkar arrives into the human world through portals, make sense. And again a card that adds some decent tempo. 14 pt playing 2 bronzes, and maybe 1or 2 points STR to the dimensional portal?

Avallach (Betrayer?) - He's connected to the wild hunt lore - He could be some sort of spy that after a turn or if killed deals additional damage if he was under frost. That would give a better purpose to WH Warriors.

Eredin's/Carantir's Curse - I don't remember who cast it of the 2 on Avallach, turning him into Uma, but a card like this, that change or reset a target into a Uma would be cool.

Noname Gold - 3-row frost. As for Droug and Ragnarok. As the name for such a card got no idea, feel free to find it a name. Update to the 3 frost. It could be named "The Wild Hunt Frost" with the Eredin's war mask or something alike. Just an idea.

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Even with these ideas and changes, the deck still suffer a bit of thinning compared to other factions.. But for the moment I haven't figured out a valid solution yet.

What do you think? Have you also thought of some changes or new cards? Share your ideas!

P.S. I believe this conversation should stay in the section where monster players are interested in addressing the matter knowing it best.

 

[iamthedave]

White Frost should be attached to Caranthir.

There should be drowner-esque WH units if you want to make a proper WH archetypal theme.

What about a frost-themed boon? The WH don't seem to be affected by the white frost, after all. You could do some good things with that, a la moonlight decks. I can see a WH version buffing itself with some sort of cold and hurting the enemy with standard.

 

[Ic3Purple]

White Frost should be attached to Caranthir.

There should be drowner-esque WH units if you want to make a proper WH archetypal theme.

What about a frost-themed boon? The WH don't seem to be affected by the white frost, after all. You could do some good things with that, a la moonlight decks. I can see a WH version buffing itself with some sort of cold and hurting the enemy with standard.

All the Ideas are good as well. About Carantir, I dont know, for being a gold/engine/control it should have at least 12 STR. 1 Clear skies after u play him, GG, hes just worth 9 points? Sighs.

However, I much welcome to the new Imlerith, even tough monster still lacks of offensive golds non weather based outside WH decks.

 

[HotdogMcG00]

White frost doesn't seem to have a point at this stage of the game - I was running it for a long time but realized it was too situational - too easy to go down in CA, or I might have already frosted 1st and 3rd rows because I needed points to go with the weather... Aeromancer has proved much more useful and still gives 5 frosts (3 hounds, aero, caranthir). Binding white frost into Caranthir would be excellent though.


I too have thought about the spawning frost mechanic- the draw back is that it DOES help thin the deck to play it out... but it can really suck to pull two or even three of the frost cards in round 1. I would be in favor of the spawn mechanic.

I agree the biggest problem is tempo - it can be really easy to get out tempo-ed, then instantly be at card disadvantage and basically game over after only 2-3 plays in round 1. Especially if you used some of your frost options there. I think boosting hounds in point value would help.

It has been mentioned in the Ask Devs thread that they might be making more tutors for this archetype.

 

[iamthedave]

All the Ideas are good as well. About Carantir, I dont know, for being a gold/engine/control it should have at least 12 STR. 1 Clear skies after u play him, GG, hes just worth 9 points? Sighs.

However, I much welcome to the new Imlerith, even tough monster still lacks of offensive golds non weather based outside WH decks.

He'd still be superior to Birna Bran in literal terms, and she sees a fair degree of play.

 

[Ic3Purple]

I too have thought about the spawning frost mechanic- the draw back is that it DOES help thin the deck to play it out... but it can really suck to pull two or even three of the frost cards in round 1. I would be in favor of the spawn mechanic.

I suggested a silver card for the Drakkar mostly, because it would be a good tempo somehow safe play. Yet, the weak point of this deck remains the weather.

I agree the biggest problem is tempo - it can be really easy to get out tempo-ed, then instantly be at card disadvantage and basically game over after only 2-3 plays in round 1. Especially if you used some of your frost options there. I think boosting hounds in point value would help..

Precisely, same as above.

It has been mentioned in the Ask Devs thread that they might be making more tutors for this archetype.

About tutors, yes, indeed there is need of something alike or some rework.

However, I still wonder why there is no Gold weather like Droug or Ragnarok Frost based? Are they still scared this deck become so OP? I heard dramas that in the early stages of the beta it used to be a such, but for today's metagame, it gets easily outplayed. As it was already months ago.

Just these days you see ppl on casual playing it out again to test the new Imlerith. Putting aside mirrors, based on my tests, this deck still suck hardcore vs value generation decks (the most running on the meta). In particular archetypes that can resurrect or replay Clear Wheater. GG!

 

[JTHMfreak]

However, I still wonder why there is no Gold weather like Droug or Ragnarok Frost based? Are they still scared this deck become so OP? I heard dramas that in the early stages of the beta it used to be a such, but for today's metagame, it gets easily outplayed.

Originally frost hit ALL units on the row for 1 damage, adding nithral would up the damage to two points per unit. Rag nar roog also did more damage, foglets were 2 points, but all three would summon with fog even from graveyard but were also removed with fog cleared.
i could go on and on about changes, but trying to keep it to weather. But yeah, weather, frost especially, was brutal back then.

 

[Ic3Purple]

Originally frost hit ALL units on the row for 1 damage, adding nithral would up the damage to two points per unit. Rag nar roog also did more damage, foglets were 2 points, but all three would summon with fog even from graveyard but were also removed with fog cleared.
i could go on and on about changes, but trying to keep it to weather. But yeah, weather, frost especially, was brutal back then.

I guess Caranthir could be it. Spawn 3 frost, 6 + 9, 15 points gold. Still remains a problem, Clear skies, which will turn him into a 9 gold again. As I suggested already once, clear skies should be nerfed. Mean to say, it clear weather on the row it is played, it is fine the 2 str restore, but at least u still have 2 rows to play around and where to play the riders.

Otherwise, I want a card that lock 3 great sowrds at once. LOL.

 

[JTHMfreak]

I guess Caranthir could be it. Spawn 3 frost, 6 + 9, 15 points gold. Still remains a problem, Clear skies, which will turn him into a 9 gold again. As I suggested already once, clear skies should be nerfed. Mean to say, it clear weather on the row it is played, it is fine the 2 str restore, but at least u still have 2 rows to play around and where to play the riders.

Otherwise, I want a card that lock 3 great sowrds at once. LOL.

I feel the game in general could use an overhaul/redo. I love the game, don't get me wrong, but it just seems to get further away from what it started as the more time goes by. Rows no longer have any identity, and everything is agile. In the beginning the melee units HAD to be placed on the melee row, catapults HAD to be placed on the back row, it made sense. If units can just all be placed on the same row then I kind of feel like weather should hit more units per turn. Otherwise weather can be pretty useless.
Yesterday I played someone using dagon as a leader, and they must have used about 8 weather effects round three. I was able to cancel 3 out from my moonlight, and I still won. But that should show that weather isn't really that powerful anymore.
Moonlight isn't too terrible, since you can make it a hazard that deals damage on placement.
But, back to the hunt!
Caranthir should put frost on two rows and move an enemy to each. This gives him more power as a card, but also makes it so where if not used earlier becomes worthless. Or give him frost that can't be removed.

 

[Ic3Purple]

Yesterday I played someone using dagon as a leader, and they must have used about 8 weather effects round three. I was able to cancel 3 out from my moonlight, and I still won. But that should show that weather isn't really that powerful anymore.
Moonlight isn't too terrible, since you can make it a hazard that deals damage on placement.

Yup, we are on a meta where removing weather is kind of easy. Indeed weather decks like WH it is too weak against value generation points. I dont know... If I think of the WH Warriors and frost ticks, hummm, I would come to think of Derran, Skellige. But still remains the problems of weather clearing. Clear resurrections, decoy, and bronzes the clear weather alone, then boons, there are plenty of weather removals while out tempoing the opponent.

But, back to the hunt!
Caranthir should put frost on two rows and move an enemy to each. This gives him more power as a card, but also makes it so where if not used earlier becomes worthless. Or give him frost that can't be removed.

That sounds very interesting.


UPDATED the OP. Added +1 str to hounds, from 6 to 7. We are still playing a risky card that generates possibly 9 points on the first play, while most bronzes go from 10 and above on other factions.

 

[iamthedave]

But, back to the hunt!
Caranthir should put frost on two rows and move an enemy to each. This gives him more power as a card, but also makes it so where if not used earlier becomes worthless. Or give him frost that can't be removed.

Might be mechanically difficult to do Caranthir that way, given that Quen sign is supposed to be causing engine problems. That's why I suggest he simply spawn white frost. It's elegant, gets the job done, is almost always effective.

Weather clear is powerful; so decks that rely on some version of weather need to be able to get lots of it down.

Re: More tutors; there's no point in more tutors if there's nothing good to tutor. The archetype needs more mechanics/cards/options, not more ways to put its ... four, bronze units? Five? On the board.

 

[partci]

... UPDATED the OP. Added +1 str to hounds, from 6 to 7...

Dude, this will be overkill. Maybe even 6 is too much. I'd put them at 5 and give them 2 Armor.

 

[Ic3Purple]

Dude, this will be overkill. Maybe even 6 is too much. I'd put them at 5 and give them 2 Armor.

The 2 armour points look a good compromise too. Good one

Yet, remember that it is a very low tempo card... but maybe 6+2 armour... Just considering the meta which out value these cards in no time. There are bronzes engines that can play even 20 and sometimes even 30 points at once... just saying

 

[partci]

... There are bronzes engines that can play even 20 and sometimes even 30 points at once... just saying

And those are broken Bronzes. Let's not make every Bronze card a broken card.

 

[Tschjo]

The Hound is strong enough at 4 its already +1 on the NR adept negating a Foltest buff if applied anyway. Complaining that Adept can pull a commando for +2 power is nonsense since navigator is the same thing. Also spawning the weather is way to good aswell. It could gain 1 or 2 armor but even that seems too good. It would now just stiffle weather plays from your opponent cause you can play it into weather to counter their weather by creating tempo with your own. Hound is fine no reason to change.

A card that would be interesting is a "play a hazard card from your graveyard" unit with about 4 power. This would give the archetype an easy way in to playing Ciri:Nova and less danger drawing frosts.

White frost aswell is a completly fine card. Sure it struggles on the blue coin but most cards do exactly that. Just add some big tempo to your deck so you have the time to play it. Heck a wild hunt rider might be enough already 13 points with 2 cards usually cant be beaten by just one card. And on red coin its a solid 8 points (Turn after you play it and turn after if you take the round) unless your opponent has a weather clear which isnt likely if you applied frost with Hounds before.

Navigator is a 3 power tutor. Usually that is a good enough deal mabye adding one point is necessary. Unless consume gets a huge nerf though targeting anything else but WH is lunatic. Reaver scout is a 1 power unit!

 

[Ic3Purple]

The Hound is strong enough at 4 its already +1 on the NR adept negating a Foltest buff if applied anyway. Complaining that Adept can pull a commando for +2 powers nonsense since

Wrong, NR Mage is 3+3 commando, plus Foltest buffs +2 equal to 8 pt play plus 2 damage of frost. A mage that can tutor TWO card at once, well... you call it no sense? I don't get it...

navigator is the same thing.

Inaccurate again, NR mage doesn't need a card on the board to play the next frost. and WH mage doesn't pull 2 cards at once. if you refer to Reaver scout, that's another thing. But I'll get there.

You missed probably the part where I mentioned that Hounds are often targeted by removals to deny WH navigator. That's why the STR buff or armor is on debate. The comparison with the NR I felt was good to make a point for the tempo matter. Besides, NR, Foltest decks in particular, another one that need some buffs in my opinion.

As comparison to the reaver scout, that;s another good example. It can tutor ALL NR cards, while WH mage can't.

Back again to the navigator, buffing its STR I dont think is really necessary, since it can get some optional buff from Ship drakkar (I'm not a fan of ships, and personally I don't run often that card). I suggested to remove the bound of Navigator to only WH cards to synergise with Drawners, and win win situation, it would find a place in other monster archetypes.

 

[Tschjo]

Wrong, NR Mage is 3+3 commando, plus Foltest buffs +2 equal to 8 pt play plus 2 damage of frost. A mage that can tutor TWO card at once, well... you call it no sense? I don't get it...

Yes and you are alredy playing 6 cards you cannot have in your hand which ofc is a no cost deal right?

Inaccurate again, NR mage doesn't need a card on the board to play the next frost. and WH mage doesn't pull 2 cards at once. if you refer to Reaver scout, that's another thing. But I'll get there.

You are right Navigator is better than commando=) Both have a condition to be good but navigator is easier to play since it requires just a unit on your side of the field.

You missed probably the part where I mentioned that Hounds are often targeted by removals to deny WH navigator. That's why the STR buff or armor is on debate. The comparison with the NR I felt was good to make a point for the tempo matter. Besides, NR, Foltest decks in particular, another one that need some buffs in my opinion.

This is an overall problem with engines though. All engines are getting hit way to hard with removal. I still dont think that hound should be better though and 2 armor wont really do that anyway cause if your opponent wants to kill it they kill it with more than just 5 points worth of damage. Anyway doesnt slyzard fix this problem though?

As comparison to the reaver scout, that;s another good example. It can tutor ALL NR cards, while WH mage can't.

Sure it can but its also in the faction with the lowest powered units. Getting a bronze with more than 11 points is not a thing in NR. And any card is also kind of an NR thing.

Back again to the navigator, buffing its STR I dont think is really necessary, since it can get some optional buff from Ship drakkar (I'm not a fan of ships, and personally I don't run often that card). I suggested to remove the bound of Navigator to only WH cards to synergise with Drawners, and win win situation, it would find place in other monster archetypes.

Sure it would. It would basically break consume. Just for drowners though it would be fine. Which means just change the wild hunt warrior to do what drowners do and problem solved?

 

[HotdogMcG00]

Yes and you are alredy playing 6 cards you cannot have in your hand which ofc is a no cost deal right?

I'm not sure what you mean by this - thinning your deck is great. There's always a risk with weather that you will end up pulling multiple and get stuck with some poor mulligan choices.

Back to fixing WH - I think, at the end of the day, weather clear is too easy/potent right now and fixing that will go a long way towards bringing back weather archetypes.

It is definitely still possible to win with WH, but it takes getting a bit lucky with the opponent not having good weather clear. A lot of the units that clear rows also buff units so it's incredibly easy to get outpaced AND not have tools to use later in the round. The issue with running Navigators AND drowners (essential, imo) is drowners leave less spots for WH bronzes, and if your WH bronzes don't last past a turn then the navigators are basically dead cards. Maybe you can make Navigator all monster cards and knock them down a point or two.

 

[Hellsmoke77]

As someone who has played a lot of Wild Hunt I'll throw a few points out here.

• Wild hunt needs bronzes that have movement like the drowner as Dave pointed out. Using drowner in a wild hunt deck just feels wrong. A deck that is entirely based on frost should have a card that can keep units in it.

• Low tempo is is a huge issue. Build a Wild Hunt deck and go play a practice round against the Nilfgaard bot. You will pass after he drops like 26 points on you in the first play. After that imagine what players can do. Playing your little 4 point hound feelsbadman.

• Finisher is needed. Pretty much every archetype has a finisher, wild hunt has none at all. Used the crones a while but with how the mulligan works it's a complete nightmare.

• Units are too easy to remove. Wild Hunt all have heavy armor, they really could use it in this game.

• Disoyal unit is bad. Everyone can choose a card from their spy, Wild Hunt gets a free frost, yay!

• Wild Hunt Rider sucks. Due to how frost ticks they can work against you more than for you.

• Wild Hunt silvers would be nice, so would a gold 3 row frost.

I love the Wild Hunt but I don't see myself playing them until these things get addressed, if they ever do get addressed. Don't have many good ideas because I really don't think they will fix it or even agree that it's broken but some of the suggestions by others above sound good.

 

[GenLiu]

As someone who has played a lot of Wild Hunt I'll throw a few points out here.

• Wild hunt needs bronzes that have movement like the drowner as Dave pointed out. Using drowner in a wild hunt deck just feels wrong. A deck that is entirely based on frost should have a card that can keep units in it.

• Low tempo is is a huge issue. Build a Wild Hunt deck and go play a practice round against the Nilfgaard bot. You will pass after he drops like 26 points on you in the first play. After that imagine what players can do. Playing your little 4 point hound feelsbadman.

• Finisher is needed. Pretty much every archetype has a finisher, wild hunt has none at all. Used the crones a while but with how the mulligan works it's a complete nightmare.

• Units are too easy to remove. Wild Hunt all have heavy armor, they really could use it in this game.

• Disoyal unit is bad. Everyone can choose a card from their spy, Wild Hunt gets a free frost, yay!

• Wild Hunt Rider sucks. Due to how frost ticks they can work against you more than for you.

• Wild Hunt silvers would be nice, so would a gold 3 row frost.

I love the Wild Hunt but I don't see myself playing them until these things get addressed, if they ever do get addressed. Don't have many good ideas because I really don't think they will fix it or even agree that it's broken but some of the suggestions by others above sound good.

I agree with pretty much all that but a few points you're describing are a real problem to fix.
The low tempo one being the most problematic imo. Yes, WH has low early round tempo and yes it does affect them quiet a lot but it's risky to give them more "punch" since their gameplan rely on dealing attrition damage over the course of the round.

Also, I think a Gold 3 row would be too strong, 2 row is probably a good thing.
Before thinking about that though, they need at least a full 4 viable Golds package which clearly isn't the case right now.
Carenthir is a "false" good Gold, on paper he's just bad but the deck don't have the choice but to play it as he provides a valuable frost effect.
Geels is probably the only good Gold they have, nothing to say about this one.
Vanila Imlerith is a joke, probably among the worst Gold in the game. The funny thing is to compare him with Striga, which is a bad Silver in constructed...He's just 3 points over it and only deal the same damage when the unit is under Frost.
Imlerith : Sabbath is just not a WH card (ironically he benefits more from Fog than Frost).