Broken combat & levelling balance nearly ruins this game...

[Dubya75]

Broken combat & levelling balance nearly ruins this game...

I know that I am not the only one who experienced this: You are always either over-levelled or you are under-levelled.
Almost every day I see posts on reddit from confused gamers asking about what they are doing wrong, because the levelling system in this game is all over the place and really makes no sense most of the time.

CDPR, I really love this game but you have got to do something about this combat and levelling balance issue! And I don't mean changing gear level requirements....
The entire system needs to be overhauled completely! Because it is a mess. It does not work.

It is OK for PC gamers because there are already a number of mods that address this problem. But what about the console players?

You pride yourself on listening to your fans and this has been illustrated in a number of areas. I really hope that you will also listen to your fans in this particular area.

 

[Krull32]

True...i dont like the EXP System too...
Impossible to make all quests during their Green period....so annoying....

 

[Sharpy47]

Agree with OP. Leveling and XP system is really problematic in this game to say at least... Those damn grey quests...

 

[Mezziaz]

Yeah I don't really like all the level/XP stuff forcing you to do everthing in an almost very specific order which kind of ruins the open world concept and takes me out of the experience reminding me I'm playing a game, almost "MMO-like".

The game became much better for me during my second playthrough when I applied mods for level scaling and hid/disabled all the level stuff so I could do most things in almost everything in the order I wished and the game started to become more challening at all times.

 

[Rawls]

Yeah I agree to an extent regarding leveling - but I think that's just a inherent flaw when developing a RPG game in an open world environment. I think the open world is a bigger plus than the leveling mechanic is a minus, so I can live with it. I recommend playing quests for the story rather than the xp points they provide. The game is much better when you don't try to "game" it ... if you take my meaning. Playing new game plus with a higher difficulty makes the imbalance not as bad IMO, but I'm not hardcore so I'm sure the harder levels may feel imbalanced as well to better gamers.

 

[Dubya75]

Yeah I agree to an extent regarding leveling - but I think that's just a inherent flaw when developing a RPG game in an open world environment. I think the open world is a bigger plus than the leveling mechanic is a minus, so I can live with it. I recommend playing quests for the story rather than the xp points they provide. The game is much better when you don't try to "game" it ... if you take my meaning. Playing new game plus with a higher difficulty makes the imbalance not as bad IMO, but I'm not hardcore so I'm sure the harder levels may feel imbalanced as well to better gamers.

I'm not one to play for the sake of XP gain. However, ironically, this game forces you to play that way because you look at your quest log and see all those red quests and you think "I need more XP for that".
You are also to a degree discouraged from exploration because chances are you will come across "red skull" enemies that are impossible to kill.
The last thing I want is to be made conscious of my own level all the time when approaching quests. I want to have an immersive and organic gaming experience, which is what the developers appear to have tried to achieve, but sadly the exact opposite was achieved.

 

[Lieste]

I'm unsure why RPG has to equate to "game in which character progression is an important/dominant mechanic"...

I consider the role to be akin to a character role in a play or movie, where progression is based on character interactions with their world and new information, rather than exclusively "moar stats". I suppose it is partly because my roleplaying experiences were with Twilight 2000 and Runequest, rather than D&D which had definite level lockouts and stat explosion as a core mechanic... having gradual improvement in skills over *very* long periods is fine, but a long standing Runequest character was not much tougher than a new one, only better able to avoid needing to be tough.

 

[Kromus007]

Agree with OP, Level system/Quest leveling is plain stupid in this game, there should be some fluid progress zone by zone, not throwing lvl 33 witcher quest in starting zone and waiting until nearly end of the game to finish it...
At least make quests cancelable / or let us to make marks with description what is where ion game map. Therefore i must use oldschool pen and paper, which is not entirely bad, but you know, whole system here could be much better with natural fluidity in leveling/exping.

 

[ConnivingEagle]

I've proposed that CDPR keep their locked levels because that does balance the game. Unfortunately it's a double-edged sword, it's always what ruins the challenge in the game. So I added that anything below your level, quest or enemy, should scale up to it, or at least be a minimum of five levels below you. No more grey quests, no more 1HKO Drowners.

Velen and Skellige both suffer from this problem because you have to return to both later in the game when you're a much higher level.

Other than that though, here are your pitchforks.

 

[Dubya75]

I'm unsure why RPG has to equate to "game in which character progression is an important/dominant mechanic"...

I consider the role to be akin to a character role in a play or movie, where progression is based on character interactions with their world and new information, rather than exclusively "moar stats". I suppose it is partly because my roleplaying experiences were with Twilight 2000 and Runequest, rather than D&D which had definite level lockouts and stat explosion as a core mechanic... having gradual improvement in skills over *very* long periods is fine, but a long standing Runequest character was not much tougher than a new one, only better able to avoid needing to be tough.

If I understand you correctly, then I agree!

I think Witcher 3 would have benefited greatly if the whole system was approached from a choice NOT to have all these arbitrary "levels".
Instead of saying "OK, let's figure out how to balance the game with Geralt levelling up all the time" to "Let's scrap this entire levelling up thing".
This would immediately open up a whole new approach in which:

- Geralt's abilities are not associated with an arbitrary number, but by the skills he acquires, the gear he wears and the mutagens and potions etc. he applies.
- Enemy strengths are based on what they are (i.e. human, wolf, fiend, etc.)
- Enemies have sub-categories (i.e. human bandit, guard, Imperial soldier, common griffin, royal griffin, etc.) all with their own strengths and abilities.

This would allow for a very precise tuning of enemy strengths relative to Geralts. The only variant would then be which difficulty the player chooses.
In my opinion, you'd end up with a much more immersive and rewarding experience.

No more level requirements for quests, armor or weapons. You face a monster and either you have the skill and supplementation to kill it, or you have to go get what you need and come back. Or you kill that monster because you are simply that good at using the combat mechanics. Much more freedom and power to the gamer!

It is a simpler approach, but I think it would be far superior and much more effective.

 

[Genoscythe]

I agree, they even put that stupid mechanic that overleveled creatures almost take no damage and deal ten times, more. If a player has the skill to take a creature down let him do it and don't artificially make it impossible.

 

[ReDD7]

I agree, they even put that stupid mechanic that overleveled creatures almost take no damage and deal ten times, more. If a player has the skill to take a creature down let him do it and don't artificially make it impossible.

I like that it takes serious skill/luck to kill somethings. Red lvl req is no problem for me. Its something to look forward to and explore areas back and forth. The grey I could live without. Most definitely.

 

[Killgrow]

I like it the way it is, open world and non-linear.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Saddest thing is, all this had been done well before...CDPR, did not need to break any new ground here.
It's a damn shame that these things are still being figured out by the developers, when Gothic I/II handled all of this without problems more than 15 years ago.

 

[FreeFall24]

The more confusing thing for me is the fact that were playing a Witcher, and not some created character who requires help to break from his/her shackles, gaining power as the game progresses. Were a Witcher, a professional monster slayer. There isn't much in the need to really improve when fighting monsters that would otherwise give no real challenge to Geralt.

I'm not saying certain monsters shouldn't be of a challenge, or become overwhelming in numbers, but at certain points in the game things just don't make much sense.

The biggest issue I have is becoming so over-leveled that nothing gives me a challenge outside of randomly placed super high level monsters in relatively low level areas. Hell, even having levels in this game seems to of been a bad idea from the start. Why can't it all be based on player skill, gear and build? Why must there be levels for anything, especially quests.

You have this massive world to explore, but who has fun in exploring only to have to a main quest on hold, now level 14 and about to do a level 7 main quest. It's absolutely pointless, there is no challenge for these quests. Why couldn't the main quests be scaled according to Geralt?

And even then exploring makes little sense when the story is all about finding someone before something else does. Where is the urgency to find Ciri? With this huge world who in the right mind would simply ignore it all? What of those who are completionists, seeing so many bloody question marks on the map.

Even with the leveling, and just monsters in general having levels, it wouldn't bother me so much if quests were laid out properly. You level up so bloody fast in this game, by the time you decide to enter Novigrad you could well be level 12 - 15 and several main quests, or even secondary are too much of a breeze, offering zero challenge whatsoever.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

I agree with inconsistency of quest order, and quite a silliness of grey quests. Superficially, the game forces you to take on the quests in a specific order, but it is pretty much inconsistent with story ordering.

All TW game stories are more or less criminal novels set in a fantasy world. TW1 - robbery/homicide, with Geralt tracking the murderers and recovering stolen property. TW2 - investigation of assassinations, with the main protagonist being accused in these crimes (a common theme). TW3 - a missing person case. With stories like this, a main goal is always essential, and the path follows a trail of clues given by investigation.

So in order to make sense out of TW3, it seems, it is better to follow a certain path - from Velen (Nilfgaardian contact, investigating his leads, to Baron's info about Ciri going to Novigrad), and to visit Novigrad only after that. Sure, it is possible to do it differently, but the quest system will be totally messed up, and eventually great many quests will be gray. Pyres of Novigrad quest requires level 10, and it is pretty much the level I have by that time. But the later essential story quest, about Novigrad dreaming, requires only level 7, and turns grey when I reach level 12. After that the level requirement sometimes looks pretty random, not corresponding to any reasonable story progression at all.

It is pretty confusing, and in general undesirable, because people do not really want the quests to turn grey, you know. Less XP, and it is somewhat of a sign of player's failure. I would like CDPR just assign a set XP to each quest, without this Ubisoft-inspired traffic lights crap, may be simply in order to avoid irritating players unnecessarily. With so many story flaws in TW3 that are probably not going to be corrected by any expansion, we have enough irritation already.

 

[RageGT]

I agree. I play lately keeping an eye on quests so that don't go 5 levels lower than my char level. And there is the mentioned inconsistencies. Skellige is level 16, so at level 21 it is still OK. But next main quest there is level 14 so it will be grey. It kinda kills exploration because I leave all ? POI for after I reached maximum level from quests since there are many POI with fixed XP rewards, like abandoned sites, and if I do them earlier, I'll overlevel and then lots of quests will go grey. If CDPR can fix this someway, the game would be much more enjoyable to freely explore.

 

[JordoBaggins]

Spoiler

It was annoying for me at first. During "Wandering in the Dark" I got so frustrated fighting Nithral not realizing until it was too late that I was under-leveled, I actually restarted the entire game.

 

[shanersimms]

I know that I am not the only one who experienced this: You are always either over-levelled or you are under-levelled.
Almost every day I see posts on reddit from confused gamers asking about what they are doing wrong, because the levelling system in this game is all over the place and really makes no sense most of the time.

CDPR, I really love this game but you have got to do something about this combat and levelling balance issue! And I don't mean changing gear level requirements....
The entire system needs to be overhauled completely! Because it is a mess. It does not work.

It is OK for PC gamers because there are already a number of mods that address this problem. But what about the console players?

You pride yourself on listening to your fans and this has been illustrated in a number of areas. I really hope that you will also listen to your fans in this particular area.

I strongly disagree with this post, along with a good portion of the people responding. For starters, this game has PLENTY of fights/encounters where the opponents are comparable level to Geralt so I see no need why each and every encounter need to be the perfect level. Secondly, I suspect many of the complaints with the leveling system boil down to people simply being OCD. This is a heavy story-driven rpg. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about the combat is challenging to the point green-level opponents are notably more difficult than grey-level opponents. Considering 90% of any given quest is story, detective work, preparation, reading notes/books, and cutscenes, being obsessed over level appropriateness is just plain dumb as whether you're the right level or 25 levels too high/low for a particular quest has absolutely no bearing on the aforementioned aspects of the game. The ONLY aspect of the game affected by level is the combat, which as already argued, is minor and an abundance of appropriate level encounters exist already.

What I would recommend to people who have this "problem" with the leveling system is to stop trying to 100% clear an area/zone before moving on. If you want an organic leveling experience, do just enough side questing to make you the appropriate level for each main story arc you get to and then move forward with the main story. Once you've beat the main story in this fashion go back and do all the other sidequests if you wish, or start the game over with a new playthrough and pick a different combination of side quests as you follow the main story.

To my main point, if you can't feel mentally at ease with a completionist mindset while playing, then DON'T try to play like a completionist. I am the type of player who does clear everything as I go, but I do so with the full awareness I will be over-leveled for much of the game, which I'm completely fine with. For me it's all about the story and the experience of going through all of the content. If you instead play with the mindset that everything you do has to be the appropriate level, then you can't fault a game when you decide to partake in a playstyle that is not conducive to your mindset. You very much so can go through the game in a fashion where most all of your quests are "Green" quests. However, those complaining here are choosing instead to play like a completionist and do each and every quest they pick up. The fault lies in a mismatch between your playstyle and mindset. To ignore this fact and say the game is at fault is just absurd.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

What I would recommend to people who have this "problem" with the leveling system is to stop trying to 100% clear an area/zone before moving on. If you want an organic leveling experience, do just enough side questing to make you the appropriate level for each main story arc you get to and then move forward with the main story. Once you've beat the main story in this fashion go back and do all the other sidequests if you wish, or start the game over with a new playthrough and pick a different combination of side quests as you follow the main story.

To my main point, if you can't feel mentally at ease with a completionist mindset while playing, then DON'T try to play like a completionist. I am the type of player who does clear everything as I go, but I do so with the full awareness I will be over-leveled for much of the game, which I'm completely fine with. For me it's all about the story and the experience of going through all of the content. If you instead play with the mindset that everything you do has to be the appropriate level, then you can't fault a game when you decide to partake in a playstyle that is not conducive to your mindset. You very much so can go through the game in a fashion where most all of your quests are "Green" quests. However, those complaining here are choosing instead to play like a completionist and do each and every quest they pick up. The fault lies in a mismatch between your playstyle and mindset. To ignore this fact and say the game is at fault is just absurd.

Well, sure, players can do things to adjust to game specifics. But why a hell any developer would create a system the players need to do something about, or just to suck it up and go with the program?? In RL we sure know how to deal with sloppy performance in different areas to minimize our unhappiness but it is no reason to simply accept it. The same is with TW3. What was this great idea behind these multi-colored quests, which does not even adjust to story progression very well? Why not just have the set XP rewards? They can suggest a level when this quest should be attempted, but it is completely independent from XP.