Broken combat & levelling balance nearly ruins this game...

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Well, sure, players can do things to adjust to game specifics. But why a hell any developer would create a system the players need to do something about, or just to suck it up and go with the program?? In RL we sure know how to deal with sloppy performance in different areas to minimize our unhappiness but it is no reason to simply accept it. The same is with TW3. What was this great idea behind these multi-colored quests, which does not even adjust to story progression very well? Why not just have the set XP rewards? They can suggest a level when this quest should be attempted, but it is completely independent from XP.

But see, to me, this is the exact kind of thinking that over-inflates something that really isn't an issue. The quest being green/grey in your log simply indicates the level of the opponents you'll come across relative to your character's level. The content and story of the quest doesn't change at all. The color coding allows the player to know whether the opponents will be on par or if they'll take 1 less Igni or a couple fewer sword swings to strike down. Not having the color coding would mean the player would go into each quest not knowing how their current level relates to the level of the opponents for that quest or you would very annoyingly have to check "recommended levels" of each quest to obtain this same information you can get instantly from the color coding.

Furthermore, you have to consider that if each quest gave a set XP amount for completion then the end-game would be completely screwed up for so many people. You have to think of it from a marketing perspective. Many players just want to get through the main story and aren't interested in experiencing all the nifty sidequests and whatnot. This person may be a parent, or game reviewer, or some other individual who can't dedicate hours upon hours to a single game. So these players focus almost exclusively on main story quests. Now, take a player such as myself that refuses to leave an area until I've searched every nook and cranny and have done every single available quest. How the hell would you balance the final boss fight to accommodate both of our playstyles? Since I did 200-250 more quests than the casual player and each quest gives a set amount of XP, I would be umpteen million times a higher level than the casual. You can't make the last boss unbeatable for the casual player, so the boss can be challenging but must be simple enough for the casual to have a chance at beating him. Yet if that's the case, a player like me would one-hit-kill that same boss with my eyes closed. What a boring, anti-climactic, and overall crappy experience! The W3 XP system is actually a genius way of making sure that regardless your playstyle your end-game content will be fun and challenging. Both the causal player and myself will be roughly the same level when we enter that final boss fight and have roughly the same experience. I find this method to be far superior than a method that would make the final boss impossible to beat for some players and a complete joke of a challenge for others.
 
Bosses are a joke as it is anyway, you know. There are other methods how to accommodate players who do not want to spend time on leveling and search for equipment. Different difficulty levels do it just fine. I like when it is up to me how I am playing the game. If I want to be a competionist, and I want to clear every area before I move on, I don't want the system to use its color signals to show that I am doing something wrong, and to be penalized by loss of XP, just because some people are not doing any side activities, but still want to play on Hard. It is fucking hilarious - more time you are spending with the game - less XP awards you get, so everyone can be on the same level. I am not into any gaming socialism. But it is just my personal preference, and others, like you, obviously find it a good system.

In any case, I am more concerned with the story in any game, and no reward or combat system can break a game for me if the story is good enough. So, comparative to TW3 massive plot screw-ups its reward system is pretty much a triviality.
 
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No idea why people assume the complaints all boil dow to grey quests not giving XP, or at a certain point you receive no XP. The actual issue is how the game is structured, and the story makes no sense for an open world of this magnitude, HUB areas do.

Why limit yourself in content? Cause the game will punish you? How stupid is that. No, content is there to be played and experienced. Not this business of "Do enough quests and POI's until you reach desired level for the main quests" The problem is you gain XP TOO DAMN FAST and become OVER-LEVELED easily, and without much effort.

Level 12, now just heading to Novigrad, and I barely did any POI's and mostly did contracts around my level.

You level up too fast, there is so much to do, hard to ignore it all and you get punished by the game being too bloody easy, even on DEATH MARCH.

There is simply no challenge.
 
Bosses are a joke as it is anyway, you know. There are other methods how to accommodate players who do not want to spend time on leveling and search for equipment. Different difficulty levels do it just fine. I like when it is up to me how I am playing the game. If I want to be a competionist, and I want to clear every area before I move on, I don't want the system to use its color signals to show that I am doing something wrong, and to be penalized by loss of XP, just because some people are not doing any side activities, but still want to play on Hard. If it fucking hilarious - more time you are spending with the game - less XP awards you get, so everyone can be on the same level. I am not into any gaming socialism. But it is just my personal preference, and others, like you, obviously find it a good system.

In any case, I am more concerned with the story in any game, and no reward or combat system can break a game for me if the story is good enough. So, comparative to TW3 massive plot screw-ups its reward system is pretty much a triviality.

This.
Just the Story is designed for casual players.
 
I have to say I agree with shanersimms at this point. If I would like to see something changed, than it would mainly be the XP curve. I am using an mod now that let me level up at normal speed early in the game, but slower and slower later in the game. That's enough for me..
 
It is a simpler approach, but I think it would be far superior and much more effective.

I like this new system, but it is not simpler. In fact, only a skilled player who has paid careful attention to monster and story lore would be able to understand and fully utilise such a system. For example, how would you really be able to prepare for a fight with a new enemy encounter? Unless you've done extensive research on said enemy, you will fail. Also, how do you distinguish between one human/wolf/fiend enemy vs another? Are they all the same with the same sets of skills? If they're all the same it would make for some pretty repetitive battles, if they are different then how would you know how to prepare for these 'differences'? It's a lot to consider and simplicity is vital when it comes to game design because you can't expect every gamer to be this knowledgeable or willing to research on their own.

On the other hand, the levelling system takes care of most of the preparation for you, in that by the time you reach the required level you would've attained the gear and skills you need to defeat the enemy, thereby simplifying the process. Having have to manually prepare and plan for every facet of the process is actually quite difficult, because you'd have to know exactly what you're doing.

I mean sure, it's an open world game when it comes to the side-quests, but we also have main quests, which need to be played in a specific order for the story to be told correctly and compellingly. Plus, in a game where the story and characters are just as important as the gameplay elements you don't want to be 'fiddlying' around too much with combat preparations, otherwise it'd affect the pace of the storytelling.
 
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the problem imo is that 2-3 levels can make or break a fight

say barons wraiths at level 4 and level 6 are two different fights purely because of the huge damage scaling per level

cut it down to a third of what it is and youll have a far more leveling friendly game
 
I think the point is that overleveling early due to exploration and all side quests makes it harder to level up later, when most quests are grey. And with such high requirement for Mastercrafted Witcher Gear, one can end up playing only some 15-30 minutes with them if they get the level to craft and use them. It is a shame in a 100 hrs game.
 
First playthrough on Death March, signs build.
Got between 10 to 20 talent points to allocate, but since I've got already my 12 talents build made, no use to spend my points further. My "build" was complete at level 25 unfortunately.
I'm a bit scared that the expansions won't add anything worthwhile skill/sign-wise.
 
I'm not one to play for the sake of XP gain. However, ironically, this game forces you to play that way because you look at your quest log and see all those red quests and you think "I need more XP for that".
You are also to a degree discouraged from exploration because chances are you will come across "red skull" enemies that are impossible to kill.
The last thing I want is to be made conscious of my own level all the time when approaching quests. I want to have an immersive and organic gaming experience, which is what the developers appear to have tried to achieve, but sadly the exact opposite was achieved.

I didn't feel discouraged to explore at all. I was actually excited at the prospect of running into things that would be able to destroy me if I wasn't ready. I never had a problem with the exp system. I was able to complete all quests in time, and if some of them were easy by the time I got to them, I didn't mind that. I love games where some things are to powerful for me at first, but then there are some areas I can go through and slaughter things from time to time.
 
After reading more responses in this thread I can't resist adding more to the conversation on the other side. What I think most people here aren't realizing is the XP system isn't a flaw but rather a byproduct of the game's massive scale. As I've already argued, CDPR must consider a multitude of playstyles and attempt to accommodate each else they risk alienating a large portion of their fanbase.... clearly bad for business. For the sake of clarity I'll use the terms completionist and casual to represent the logical extremes, but we are also aware of playstyles that fall anywhere in-between these extremes on the spectrum.

Now some, such as FreeFall24 have argued that you currently level way too fast. Now I would agree if I was tailoring a game to meet only my personal desires, but consider this article here:

http://www.polygon.com/2015/4/14/8406525/witcher-3-length-how-long-wild-hunt

It took their most experienced playtester 25 hours to beat the W3 main story. That is a timeframe that many casuals may already feel is getting to be too much for the "meat and potatoes" of a game. This crowd wants to have a fun experience getting through the core game content and move on, or based on their life schedules, it may take them a couple months to find even this much time to dedicate to a game. So what effect would slowing down the leveling system even further cause when the player already gains levels slower than a rate of 1 level per hour of gameplay? How fun would it be for the casual crowd who gets to play an hour here and an hour there to feel like they're being drug through the mud, gaining a single level every 2-3 play sessions? This crowd, like all of us, wants a fun and exciting experience of building their characters and to feel like they're actually accomplishing something when they do get to play. Likewise, if we sped up the XP gain, well then we exacerbate the issue the OP is talking about where those of us with time don't get to savor the experience. Considering this, it seems the current XP gain rate is a happy medium.

Secondly, given the game's scope, I would ask those complaining what reasonable alternatives do we have then? Adjusting the XP gain rate doesn't do much, as already argued, as it would simply frustrate one or more player crowds to appease another. If we can't change the XP gain rate, we could focus on the enemies we encounter themselves. Some games employ enemy scaling based on the player's current level. If this were implemented the game could adjust enemy levels of any given quest to match the player's current level. As I recall The Elder Scroll IV: Oblivion employed this method. But what is the result? Well for many, myself included, this destroys immersion and restricts player freedom to paly as they wish. Maybe I want to walk into a rats den and smash me some puny rats, yet not matter what dungeon I go to or monster I encounter it will be par for my level. The same bandits I faced day one are just as challenging after I went out adventuring in the world and built my character some 30-ish levels. Where is the fun in that? I did all this work to make my character feel more powerful and no matter what I do each encounter is of equal challenge no matter how far I grow in power or level. If anything this method restricts the players freedom. Sometimes I want appropriate level opponents, sometimes I want a real challenge facing opponents "too high" for my level, and at others I want to crush puny rodents and bandits like the demigod I am. Enemy scaling removes the player's ability to choose to play quests as they wish thus the current system is superior to a system that employs enemy scaling to make each quest "appropriate" in level.

So again, I ask all of you complaining what would be a better solution? In my mind the current system is the lesser of multiple evils when you are given a game with this massive of a scope. All complaints and "solutions" mentioned here so far seem to cater to a select playstyle rather considering the player base as a whole. Again, the problem simply arrises from the game's massive amount of content. As stated in my previous post, the game must do its best to make the content continually fun and challenging from start to finish. Completionists and the like will have far many more quests under their belt by the end of the game than the casual. The system CDPR has chosen is the best way, as I see it, to accommodate both of these crowds as best it can as players progress through the game at rate of their personal choosing.
 
I agree with the OP. The leveling system is broken. And although modders could eventually fix this with a lot of work involved, it would be better if CD Projekt RED made an official fix. Five years from now when fans replay TW3 the broken leveling is something that'll make them say "Oh yeah... I forgot about this. *sigh* ." Since CD Projekt RED is still selling DLC for TW3, I think it's reasonable to ask them to look at fixing problems like this.

Just to be clear, the problems with the leveling is:
(1) You become over-leveled waayyyyy to easily. If I want to experience a quest the way it was meant to be experienced I usually can't because I'm already over-leveled.
(2) The game becomes too easy around level 20 or so. Even on Death March. Experienced gamers like myself want the game to be challenging throughout the entire thing.
(3) You gain so much raw stats (health/damage) from leveling up that's it's impossible to complete quests above your level. You can't explore the open-world as much as you'd like because you spread high level quests throughout low level zones.

Thanks for reading.
 
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Continuing on from my last comment...

A way to fix problem #3 would be to make it so all quests in a zone are achievable (although difficult) at the level you're supposed to enter the zone at (6 for Velen, 10 for Novigrad, 16 for Skellige). And then later in the game (say... when you rescue Ciri) take all the side-quests and points-of-interest in previous zones that weren't completed and upscale them to a higher level so that when the player travels back through those zones it's challenging again. Additionally, you could make it so "end-game quests" (i.e. level 20+ quests) don't even appear on the map until you're reached a certain point in the story (but then you'd have to think of some way to notify the player of their existence).
 
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Well, sure, players can do things to adjust to game specifics. But why a hell any developer would create a system the players need to do something about, or just to suck it up and go with the program?? In RL we sure know how to deal with sloppy performance in different areas to minimize our unhappiness but it is no reason to simply accept it. The same is with TW3. What was this great idea behind these multi-colored quests, which does not even adjust to story progression very well? Why not just have the set XP rewards? They can suggest a level when this quest should be attempted, but it is completely independent from XP.

Indeed, when people have to start modding this area of the game out of necessity from the get-go, something is wrong...

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As I've already argued, CDPR must consider a multitude of playstyles and attempt to accommodate each else they risk alienating a large portion of their fanbase.... clearly bad for business.

That is why you have different difficulty levels. My proposed system will not alienate anyone! the game will simply flow better with a more consistent difficulty curve.
 

My own, personal take is that levels are too easy to gain, too important (both because of your own skill inflation and also because of the ubiquitous inflation of all equipment stats, enemy strengths and the "bonus stats" for higher level opponents).

The combat isn't hard, but can become tedious and punishing (if any errors are made) at certain points. A lot could have been improved by reducing the importance of levels making equipment more varied in detail, but more similar in raw power, and avoiding having quite so much growth by layering of lots of 'steady' growth elements onto each other.

A 'super experienced' witcher who is actively on the path starts, yet again, as a hopeless noob waving a noodle. This makes the early game hard when players are new, but after a few hours/tens of hours (depending on playstyle) equipment and skills catch up to the 'world'.... then Geralt leaves everything else (except town guards) behind as he continues to improve.

Almost works in terms of game mechanics, but it makes little sense in the world context.
 
Indeed, when people have to start modding this area of the game out of necessity from the get-go, something is wrong...
Let's be honest. No-game is perfect. And as long as a game is moddable people will start fixing the little things they dislike the moment the game comes out.
 
Indeed, when people have to start modding this area of the game out of necessity from the get-go, something is wrong...

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That is why you have different difficulty levels. My proposed system will not alienate anyone! the game will simply flow better with a more consistent difficulty curve.

Your argument doesn't follow. The difficulty levels have to do with baseline difficulty of encounters. This does not relate in any way to the discussion between the completionist and casual playstyles. Whether your baseline difficulty is set easier or harder doesn't address the issue of time involvement to progress through content based on the game's massive scope.
 
Let's be honest. No-game is perfect. And as long as a game is moddable people will start fixing the little things they dislike the moment the game comes out.

I understand that. But I have played many games over the years and been on many game forums. Perhaps more than with any previous game, I see people posting confused questions about the levelling system in Witcher 3. This points to a general issue with the game when these kinds of questions are asked virtually every single day. It is without a doubt the game's weakest area.
To fold our hands and say "oh well you know, every game has its flaws" is neither productive, nor does it help the developers create better games.
I am trying to highlight a very real deign flaw in this game, not to be critical, but to prompt CDPR for a solution!
 
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