broken skill

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Regardless of tests and the intentions of the developers, the fact remains that every relevant post on Reddit and Gamefaqs is either someone asking if this works (because they don't notice it working), or declaring that it doesn't work. That is the issue I think. Intentional or not, the skill does not accomplish what players expect it to. Honestly- when you equip fleet footed at rank 5- do you really notice a gameplay difference? I don't.

As far as this goes:
You'd be completely invulnerable as long as you kept on mashing that there dodge button.
That's already the case. Seriously- go into a fight and just mash the dodge button. You won't take damage.

I assumed the intention of fleet footed was to allow geralt a "surounded by enemies' style of swordplay. Just as without fleet footed- dodges have to be skillfully interwoven with jabs. But unlike with regular swordplay, fleet footed would allow you to be surrounded by monsters. Currently only humans can be fought that way (imo). With drowners and such you gotta keep them all in front (unless your about to cast 360 aard or whatever)
(respect for all your testing though- i'd definitely check out those vids if you made them).

I'm not a huge nitpicker. If this skill is never modified- no biggie. This game is the best RPG I've ever played. If I want to nitpick, I'll head over to bioware's forums ;) (jk). I do think the skill has potential as described though.
 
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In all cases fleet footed appears to be working as intended. Having only the starting frames of a dodge prevent damage is the normal property of all action game dodges. If it did not work like this you could spam dodge with impunity, never having to worry about timing it. You'd be completely invulnerable as long as you kept on mashing that there dodge button. That's bad design, because it doesn't reward precision. If you need to get away from a spot to gain a lot of room, you don't need to chain dodges, you have a roll for that.

Not 100% on this. Though I agree that this ability should not be triggered by the entirety of the animation (I agree that would be ridiculously OP), it should extended into the middle frames, with the later/recovery frames being unaffected. Though this might just be a misunderstanding of our definitions, i.e. for me the starting frames are the frames where he is actively starting the dodge (pushing off with his feet etc...), the middle frames are the majority of the dodge movement and the recovery frames are as he is 'landing'. If the ability doesn't push at least a reasonable amount into the middle frames then they really need to change the description of the ability. "Damage from hits received while dodging reduced by 100%" is going to confuse and frustrate allot of people if it is only the first x/100th of a second.
 
Regardless of tests and the intentions of the developers, the fact remains that every relevant post on Reddit and Gamefaqs is either someone asking if this works (because they don't notice it working), or declaring that it doesn't work. That is the issue I think. Intentional or not, the skill does not accomplish what players expect it to. Honestly- when you equip fleet footed at rank 5- do you really notice a gameplay difference? I don't.

Good post. I haven't gotten the ability yet, but my impression of reading the ability text is that it gives you invincibility frames from the moment Geralt's feet leave the ground (short dodge) to the moment his feet land on the ground. If that is not the case, then this ability is not doing what I think it should be doing. And I am guessing other people are expecting the same.

Anyway, I was thinking of using this ability, but since it's iffy as to when it works, I'll pass. Not wasting 3 ability points AND a slot for it.
 
Yes, I do notice a difference. I don't take damage when I get hit during dodges.
I don't take damage during aoes.
Notably fiends with their huge hitboxes will hit me and I wont take damage.
I notice a gameplay difference. Against cyclops if I am not going to be able to avoid their aoe in time I will simply time a dodge. Against gargoyles too.
I'm not very interested in arguing about what most people see or don't see about a skill. In my experience most people barely understand the game they are playing. I mean no offense here, its just that I have lost count of the things that are popularly accepted as true in numerous action games that I have specifically tested and found are not true.
I really enjoy testing games and a large part of my enjoyment of any new game is exploring how the combat system works.
Mostly because true understanding gives me control, and control gives me power. I can then throw myself into situations other people would despair at with confidence, because I understand how it really works.
So I'm really not a good person to talk about intuition, or how something feels. My instincts at this point are to experiment and test before judging. I'm always observing and thinking about what just happened, and if I think its important, I start trying to replicate it.

If you spam dodge you get smacked in your recovery constantly because enemy attacks track you. I'll explain how this works.
You know how some enemies dodge away from you after three attacks and then counter? If you are mashing attack when this happens your attack whiffs because he does an animation intended to hit where they were before they dodged, or if you are slightly late, where they are halfway through the dodge, but by the time he hits they've finished the dodge and he misses.
However if you delay your attack slightly, so that you don't attack until they are past halfway or near the end of their dodge backwards, your attack will be aimed for where they are after the dodge. I use this knowledge to set up heavy attacks on drowners for a clean finish. Hit them three times, delay, heavy attack.
Gap closing attacks don't realign mid way. Once you or they are committed it cannot be modified.

The same applies to enemy monster gap closers. For example the drowner jumping attack. If you have a large number of drowners coming for you in staggered timing and you simply spam dodge, you risk getting hit by the next one before you can dodge again. The second ones jump will be aligned for the recovery of your dodge. If you carefully time your dodges for each incoming jump and press it when they are already committed and halfway to you, you dodge every single one without fail.

Wraith teleports are another example. Wraiths aren't committed to their attack until they appear. If you spam dodge they will appear behind you and catch you. If you time your dodge carefully for after they appear and you dodge away from them you will avoid their first attack cleanly and will get away scott free as long as you dodge a second time to avoid their slow follow through. It takes timing.

Even for humans, they have an attack where they run at you and swing. If you spam dodge they just keep chasing you until they get close enough to hit you. You get hit in your recovery. If you time the dodge for just before they swing, they whiff. Every time.

Spamming dodge isn't even remotely safe. The only reason it appears to work most of the time is because a fair few enemy attacks are fairly short ranged and linear, so you are simply out of range or out of line of attack. But there are numerous moves designed specifically to catch and punish dodge spam.

I absolutely agree that the game doesn't communicate what fleet footed is supposed to do though. But it's not the only ability that has a confusing skill description. I'm fairly used to having to try and work out what a skill description actually means via testing, in pretty much every game. I normally just post whatever information I find on the local forum I usually post on, but with this game, which has really stuck its claws into me, I decided to make an account here and try posting the information more widely, as well as help with testing and to report bugs.
I'm normally quite lazy about that. :p
I honestly would prefer it if developers didn't try to simplify skill trees, but simply told you everything, even with a secondary drop down box. Tell me the formulas used to calculate damage. Tell me how the dodge is coded, exactly. Explain every status effect in detail somewhere, even if its an optional checkbox for "advanced info". Give me everything.
I promise my head wont explode! I can take it!
 
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The "Cat School Perk" is also broken and doesn't work at all.

It is half broken, the bonus to Fast Attack Damage is working but not the bonus Critical Hit Damage, but post is about Fleet Footed... i have both Bear and Cat cause i maintain both Ursine and Feline armor and swap them out based on the fight.

I have had Fleet Footed for most of the time and just removed it, as mentioned earlier, it is working as i've been dying a lot more. But it is a skill i can live without, just gotta time my dodges more precisely. imho with its lack of clarification tooltip, its not worth the 5 points.
 

did you test to see if it's only being triggered on the first attack (per dodge)? assuming the first comes from the front. does it also trigger if the first attack is from the side, then fail on the second form front? or is it frontal only?

not counting out timing-related issues.
 
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Alright I tested it a bit against some drowners, recorded it and watched the footage.
Against masses of creatures it seems to be only partly working.
Sometimes it worked and I took 0, sometimes it didn't. Even when hit at the same part of the animation.
Oddly, there were a couple of times when I was sure I had dodged too late and got hit twice. As in I had pressed the button just as the hit was landing.
In the cases where I remembered doing this and got hit twice, I noticed a single 0 pop up on the second hit.
In all cases that a 0 popped up while I was being hit stunned any further attacks would be unable to be dodged out of, no matter how I mashed it.

However, something interesting I noticed. It's true that when you don't have it equipped you still see 0 pop up. But you see it a lot less. Most of the time you don't see anything. Comparing the two videos side by side on the same pack of drowners, dodging through their attacks the same way, trying to head myself through the middle of the pack.
I saw a lot less geralt is hit for 0 for the case where I don't have fleet footed.
So I'm wondering if it improves that basic sliding frames ability? Note that I'm talking about cases where he doesn't get hitstunned, where he appears to "i frame" through the attacks seamlessly. I saw it pop up more in those cases when I had fleet footed. I discounted cases where he gets clipped and takes 0 damage of course.
Regardless there's definitely times when it doesn't work. Including dodging into the enemy, which was kind of a crap shoot. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

However those times aren't consistent. I backed straight into a drowner, as in geralt's back was pointing at its front, and it hit geralt in the back. At the end of the animation. And he took 0 damage.

Something buggy is going with multiple creatures. Cos it works really consistently against a single boss.

Also, I got hit a lot when mashing with fleet footed, but it was really hard for them to hit me when I timed my dodges precisely. Even multiple attacks coming in at the same time. Without fleet footed, I still got clipped a lot, precise dodging or not. I got clipped all the time, in fact. All over the place. It was really hard to deal with.
The without fleet footed videos are a heck of a lot shorter.
I like living, so I'll keep it. Plus I know it works for aoes and frankly enemies with aoes are the deadliest things you can face on death march, so having a way to deal with them fairly comfortably is important.

But yeah, they need to look at how it works in groups. It behaves oddly.

Note that when I stopped trying to dodge randomly through the whole pack and dodged as I would if I was trying to kill them (without actually killing them) I stopped taking any damage at all in the fleet footed case. But still occasionally got clipped in the non fleet footed case. By this I mean trying to keep the pack all on one side of me so I am not surrounded, and backing away and around them in a giant circle.
Oh and you can block close range drowner fast attacks (you can actually counter them). They were the most likely culprits for attacks that clipped me. It was quite rare that I got hit with a jumping attack in the starting frames of the dodge. They had to be coming in at a weird angle, like behind and from the side sort of thing. I'm not saying that excuses the buggy behavior or anything, I'm just saying you will take less hits if you do this. In fact the stun you get where they do the heavy jump attack and hit your guard, if they immediately do a fast attack, you still block it anyway. So its always useful to keep your block up when fighting drowners. You can do any animation out of a block so there's no reason not to always have it up.

Works versus humans too. With humans the only enemy attacks you can't block are axes. And you can block out of the recovery frames of your dodge too, making it even safer. Always be blocking with humans and fast monsters.
For nekkers, I haven't seen one do any attacks I couldn't block. (I'm digressing here, I just wanted to mention this for those who don't know.)
 
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Thanks for the extensive testing mate. Yeah, it was the group combat where I was struggling with it being hit-or-miss, why I couldn't work out why it was working so well in boss fights but so inconsistently in group fights.

Even in it's current form I'll likely be keeping it (for the same reasons you pointed out), but I hope they do make it more consistent for group fights as I think it would be a good ability to keep group fights fluid (i.e. being able to stay close to groups of mobs without getting absolutely destroyed), instead of the sporadic mess I'm currently performing, lol. If it still required good timing but was at least consistent, I think it would make group fights allot of fun.
 
based on my testing and watching the video, it usually happens when geralt gets hit by a creature not currently part of his auto lock on radius

like he auto chooses a target to dance around even if you aren't locked on, a soft lock
that soft locked target in any given case can't hit him if you dodge correctly.
but other monsters, the friends of the soft locked target, seem to ignore the dodge more often, and hit him at odd angles.
which is why its best to keep them all on one side of you, since it seems the most screwy when you let them get in on the sides.
 
With the various skill bugs, it'd be nice if CDPR added a respec potion to your inventory with each patch.
 
So the general consensus is Fleet Footed is working as intended?

Cause if so, I'll be dropping it for something more useful.
 
So the general consensus is Fleet Footed is working as intended?

Cause if so, I'll be dropping it for something more useful.

No, it appears to have issues in group combat. Seems to work quite reliably in one-on-one. By morninglord22 testing it looks like it has issues with non-lock/non-soft-locked targets in particular.
 
I see, thanks for clearing that up KracsNZ.

Makes sense, I was mainly noticing it not functioning in group battles where I needed it most! If that's the case, I'll drop it, as I find it's not needed as much in 1v1 situations.
 
I dropped it and got cornered by a cyclops immediately, then killed with no way to evade its attacks.

Since I'm an adventurer by nature and frankly find groups to be pretty easy compared to the humongous damage and tremendous range of 1vs1 boss fights, especially aoes, I went ahead and left it on.

Plus it does still work in groups at random and sometimes consistently, most notably if you dodge directly into an attack by accident, which can happen a lot.

On average, you live longer in all circumstances with it on.
 
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from reddit and forums thus far, Fleet Footed seems to be working as intended. there is a noticeable increase in my survival on Death March. tooltip just isn't clear thats all. that being said, imho it is a terrible perk to spend 5 points and a socket slot. with a bit of training i got use to not having it in 1v1s, while in group fights, it never had any real impact when im surrounded anyways so it didn't change anything. i took those 5 points from Fleet Footed and threw them into Resolve, as Fleet Footed wasn't reliable enough.
 
You should probably read this thread again then, because the current agreed state of it is that it works 1 on 1 and is buggy in groups. Sometimes for you, sometimes against you.

I also don't really understand why anyone would find it terrible. It keeps you alive longer.
Staying alive is not being dead.
Not being dead is completing objectives, finishing fights, progressing.
The alternative is hitting the load button.
I honestly don't even see it as a choice. Frankly I think it should have this ability by default, but I'll take what I can get.

Shrug. I guess if you are mainly specced signs and are making some kind of hybrid build I could see the point in not taking it, quen is pretty godlike, but I have no points in anything but combat and that alchemy toxicity skill, not counting a couple of utility skills.
I'd feel like a madman if I stopped using it. It's saved my bacon on Death March more times than I have fingers and toes.
Can't wait till its fixed up properly and is even more useful.
 
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I was mainly noticing it not functioning in group battles where I needed it most!

Exactly. Fleet footed is unequivocally bugged. ilozen clearly described on page 1 of this thread how the skill should work

You will take damage if you roll/dodge directly (or almost directly) towards the target. Other than that it should prevent you from getting damage.

That is NOT how the skill currently works. You do NOT take damage when you dodge directly toward the target. Other than that it does NOT prevent you from taking damage (you still take damage from flanking attacks). Therefore the skill is not working as intended.

Perhaps it's still useful in some way, but this is the tech support forum. There's no point in 'defending' the skill. This forum is not about what's effective, it's about what is or is not working as intended. I don't understand why people are trying to 'defend' the skill in the tech support forum. It just doesn't seem like the appropriate place to discuss what kind of gamer you are and how you like to play.
 
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Fair point. I tend to ramble off topic a bit left unchecked. I'll try to watch that.

I currently plan to test this again in 1.05 if I can find some time today, unless someone else has already done it.

---------- Updated at 02:32 AM ----------

Been testing it versus the "Bovine Defence Force initiative" and it only seems to work in two circumstances against this monster.
Dodging forwards straight into it.
Dodging backwards as it does its charge. (First hit is 0, then second hit is normal damage)
Trying to dodge sideways after doing a heavy attack gets hit by everything for full damage. Dodging after doing a fast attack just triggers the normal dodge due to the faster recovery.
Both the attacks it is working on are the complete reverse of the attacks it is explicitly not supposed to work on. (For example, the chort charge is the same as the fiend charge, which was stated the skill wouldn't work for. Ditto for dodging forwards.)

Note that I didn't get to test it versus a chort before, so I don't know if it has changed.
I'm going to reload my cyclops testing save and rerun that test a bit later. If the results are identical for the cyclops, maybe the skill isn't actually supposed to work with these cyclops attacks? And if it is reversed, that is why it is actually working for them. That would explain a lot if true.
After that I'll try the drowner save.

Of course it could just be the chort itself is buggy as all hell.
 
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From what I can tell this skill works only for blows delivered by the single humanoid you have currently softlocked and a few selected monsters. For Groups this skill seems to be completely obsolete. I have tried it against single- and groups of following enemies: Humanoids, Nekkers, Drowners, Fiends, Arachnas', Wolves, Dogs and Vampires. It seems only to work against single Humanoids, and Fiends.

Have to try a few more others though.
 
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