[Bug] First Person Camera is misaligned

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i've made a little research on first person camera position and found that we're always seeing the world around from V's... mouth! Yep, first person camera is placed into V's mouth. That's why we're always feeling shorter that everyone else. And that's why we can't see the road behind the cars hood.

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Another thing. When i look down at myself in game i can't see anything above my stomach.
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When i look at myself IRL, i can see almost whole of my chest (and i'm not really flexible man) and most of my shoulders if i'm turning my head sideways, like i showed on screenshot. So what kind of neck injury does V have that he(she) can't look downward?
photomode_11042021_155846.jpg

On next screenshot i'm showing approximate sightlines and camera/eyes position in-game (red) and IRL (green), when we bow our head to look down.
photomode_11042021_161744.jpg

This problem may look insignificant, but it's not (especially for those, who would like to look at their fem-V's breasts... yep). Proper camera positioning will increase immersion (we won't feel like halfling near other people) and, probably solve first person driving problem. Though, for last one we also need rearview mirrors/monitors in cars.
 
Good post, solid effort, nice pics. I like!

Though your logic is not always entirely correct.

I'll start from the last point: mirrors / monitors in cars. Both will require non-bugged implementation of 3D reflection routines. But as lots of us know from 1st-person experience, there was game-crashing "mirror bug" in earlier versions (not sure about 1.2). Given that, i'd rather drive 1st-person-view cars with no mirrors / monitors at all. I mean, risk crashing the game and/or say getting massive FPS drop just because rear view devices are added to the car? Thanks but no thanks! :)

And you see, it ain't just CDPR. "Reflections" are notably problematic in many titles. I don't know exactly why, but it takes a ton extra resources to make some; many titles combat that by massively dropping resolution of reflected scenes, making 'em massively less useful than it could be "in theory", etc. This, i observe now and then in various titles during last ~20 years, and the problem is - clearly - still not solved any radically.

Next, about "looking down". While it's certainly possible to improve along the lines you proposed - there are some fundamental limitations which make it impossible to fully mimic real life. Namely:

- mouse can only go 90 degrees downwards. Not more. While in real life, neck and eye movements combined - can easily have you looking not just "directly down", but "down and a bit backwards", like going more than 90 degrees arc between your "let's see my own chest" line of sight - and your "looking straight forward" line of sight;

- human neck has several joints, each flexible, and each controlled somewhat independently. It is possible to model this in a game, but it is not possible to control character's neck in all the manners we can control our real neck - as long as we talk mouse or single-axis controller which is the input. You just can't control multiple joins with a single axis, fully.

And this means, in particular, that implementing "full range of fields of view possible in real life" - would result in some cases of "going over the limits" and seeing much unnatural angles / pictures.

Last but not least - parallax and view angles. The game has a slider for view angle, and certain distortions happen at certain values. It's impossible to "make it straight", because resulting picture is on a level surface (display screen). In real life, objects are not all displayed on a flat surface. And it just happens that some most glaring / bad distortions - happen at "nearby objects near edge of the screen". This most likely plays a role, too.


All in all? Sure, CDPR can probably improve a bit. But i wouldn't expect complete "realism" about it. Not even close to it. Not possible. Sorry.
 
Thanks for reply! :)
Firstly about monitors. Mirrors are pretty resource-consuming in game... Most probably, because in that case game needs to render two pictures (forward and rear) at the same time, that doubles work needed to be done by graphic card. I think it would be nice to have this feature toggleable. So players with weak PC's may just avoid using it, or using it for short time, when neccessary, while players with top grade PC's can keep it always on.

About First person camera - what i'm talking about is already partially done by "Better First Person Perspective" mod. But just partially... And i'd prefer official solution.
Anyway, i'm not asking the game to absolutely correspond to reality. It's impossible (at least for now). Just adjusting view angles. And btw, mouse ingame does not go down 90 degrees... it's more like 75-80.
Problem with possibility of seeing or neck is also may be solved. Set a threshold. When camera reach this threshold, it will move forward (not far, though), like we're stretching our neck. So our field of view will roll around this threshold line not allowing us to se our own neck, but allowing to look at our chest.

"Field of view" slider, though maybe a problem indeed. but threshold line may possibly solve it too.
 
I'm glad someone brought this up because I just finished my first play through and any time I was sitting on a couch or in a car with another character, I felt like I was a little kid because of the camera height!

The other thing that bugs me is that when you look down at your character, the view is way off. I'm a guy and I was lucky to have great genes so I naturally have a very muscular chest. If I barely look down I see my chest. In the game you don't. I started a female V to see if anything was different, and if you look down you don't even see her chest. If I can see my own chest in real life, certainly a woman barely glancing down will see boobs.
 
Mods. They are easy to install, easy to setup, corrects almost everything lacking in the game, including camera positioning. Solved.
 
i've made a little research on first person camera position and found that we're always seeing the world around from V's... mouth! Yep, first person camera is placed into V's mouth. That's why we're always feeling shorter that everyone else. And that's why we can't see the road behind the cars hood.

View attachment 11208400View attachment 11208397


Another thing. When i look down at myself in game i can't see anything above my stomach.
View attachment 11208406
When i look at myself IRL, i can see almost whole of my chest (and i'm not really flexible man) and most of my shoulders if i'm turning my head sideways, like i showed on screenshot. So what kind of neck injury does V have that he(she) can't look downward?
View attachment 11208403

On next screenshot i'm showing approximate sightlines and camera/eyes position in-game (red) and IRL (green), when we bow our head to look down.
View attachment 11208415

This problem may look insignificant, but it's not (especially for those, who would like to look at their fem-V's breasts... yep). Proper camera positioning will increase immersion (we won't feel like halfling near other people) and, probably solve first person driving problem. Though, for last one we also need rearview mirrors/monitors in cars.
I really hope CDPR will fix this. I'm glad you brought that up in a thread. I really hope some devs will see it. We could report this to the tech support, but it might not be considered a bug so I'm not sure if they will resolve this issue.
 
Mods. They are easy to install, easy to setup, corrects almost everything lacking in the game, including camera positioning. Solved.
As i said before, i prefer official solution, because:
1. Dev's have better vision of what they did, doing and will do with this game, while modders are like intruders.
2. Because of (1), mod's can contain unexpected bugs, can influence parts of code which isn't meant to be influenced etc.
3. You have to reinstall (or even update manually after waiting for new version) mods after game major updates.
4. If that was doable for modders, it will pretty easy to do for devs.
 
As i said before, i prefer official solution, because:
1. Dev's have better vision of what they did, doing and will do with this game, while modders are like intruders.
2. Because of (1), mod's can contain unexpected bugs, can influence parts of code which isn't meant to be influenced etc.
3. You have to reinstall (or even update manually after waiting for new version) mods after game major updates.
4. If that was doable for modders, it will pretty easy to do for devs.
Yeah, of course official would be better but if you want a better experience NOW, then go for it.
 
i've made a little research on first person camera position and found that we're always seeing the world around from V's... mouth! Yep, first person camera is placed into V's mouth. That's why we're always feeling shorter that everyone else. And that's why we can't see the road behind the cars hood.

View attachment 11208400View attachment 11208397


Another thing. When i look down at myself in game i can't see anything above my stomach.
View attachment 11208406
When i look at myself IRL, i can see almost whole of my chest (and i'm not really flexible man) and most of my shoulders if i'm turning my head sideways, like i showed on screenshot. So what kind of neck injury does V have that he(she) can't look downward?
View attachment 11208403

On next screenshot i'm showing approximate sightlines and camera/eyes position in-game (red) and IRL (green), when we bow our head to look down.
View attachment 11208415

This problem may look insignificant, but it's not (especially for those, who would like to look at their fem-V's breasts... yep). Proper camera positioning will increase immersion (we won't feel like halfling near other people) and, probably solve first person driving problem. Though, for last one we also need rearview mirrors/monitors in cars.
A super techie point, but depending on how wide your field of view is, the majority of wide angle lenses distort the view to an increasing degree the further away you get from the centre of the optic (lens). Game engines do reproduce this distortion (not sure it's even possible to go wide without some distortion because you're talking about extending the field of view beyond what you would naturally see within a confined frame). You might make an artistic choice that you want things not to be viewed from too high because people's legs will need to bend, for example.

At a more basic level, you might make the choice for the artistic reason that otherwise the player sees too much blank space above everyone's heads.

A lot of photography, including much fashion photography, actually gets shot from around hip level because it gives what many consider a "better" look. It's obvious if you think about it -- if you want to take in the full height of a subject without causing them to appear at an angle you drop to middle height.

We know from the livestreams that the devs are fairly obsessive about their visual storytelling (which is as things should be).

That could be the reasoning behind it, it could be something completely different, but just something I thought I'd chuck in.
 
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As i said before, i prefer official solution, because:
1. Dev's have better vision of what they did, doing and will do with this game, while modders are like intruders.
2. Because of (1), mod's can contain unexpected bugs, can influence parts of code which isn't meant to be influenced etc.
3. You have to reinstall (or even update manually after waiting for new version) mods after game major updates.
4. If that was doable for modders, it will pretty easy to do for devs.
5. its actually not the modders job but cdprs.
Post automatically merged:

Yeah, of course official would be better but if you want a better experience NOW, then go for it.
said the pc gamer... : /
 
A super techie point, but depending on how wide your field of view is, the majority of wide angle lenses distort the view to an increasing degree the further away you get from the centre of the optic (lens). Game engines do reproduce this distortion (not sure it's even possible to go wide without some distortion because you're talking about extending the field of view beyond what you would naturally see within a confined frame). You might make an artistic choice that you want things not to be viewed from too high because people's legs will need to bend, for example.

At a more basic level, you might make the choice for the artistic reason that otherwise the player sees too much blank space above everyone's heads.

A lot of photography, including much fashion photography, actually gets shot from around hip level because it gives what many consider a "better" look. It's obvious if you think about it -- if you want to take in the full height of a subject without causing them to appear at an angle you drop to middle height.

We know from the livestreams that the devs are fairly obsessive about their visual storytelling (which is as things should be).

That could be the reasoning behind it, it could be something completely different, but just something I thought I'd chuck in.

Not actually what i was talking about. I've tried to represent here FOV's that our eyesockets give us. So focus and distortion are aspects are to be solved by moving our eyes inside this sockets. Just like we can look into different parts of our screen. Also, as you can see on last picture, i'm talking not about extending field of view, but about extending angles of its positoining to natural values (depending on my IRL experience).

About photography. That's not the point. You're talking about framing where V is looking at people, and it's totally not a problem, because we're able to look where we want at people. The problem is not AT where we looking, but FROM where we looking. While V supposed to look at world from his/her eyes, he/she looks at it from mouth which is a big (as for me) problem for storytelling, because we feel V noticeably shorter that he/she is.

5. its actually not the modders job but cdprs.
Well, CDPRs are doing what they decide need to be done. They're deciding what is their job in that cause, and that's their right. We can only express our wishes, so they will be noted and can decide wether it necessary or not. :)
Same about modders: they're doing job they want to be done. :)
 
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