[Bug/Suggestion] Ending (Spoiler) - Very confused

[Mobster100]

Hardly know if this is suppose to be reported as a bug or as a suggestion, because it's so confusing and makes so little sense.

Game difficulty: Very hard.
Time spend on playthrough: 125 hours or so, so it weren't a quickrun.

Spoiler: An ending

These are the options I chose for my game.

So I chose to go with the Johnny and Rogue solution. First of all the mission itself was very boring and easy due to how combat works. Cyberware suicide, system reset and cyberpsychosis, not only make it ridiculously easy. But it ruins the combat completely, not only in this mission but in general. But in this mission there is hardly any enemies so its a complete walkover and doesn't match the whole setup that it is dangerous at all, it's easier than most gigs.

The final boss completely bugged, just standing there, when he died he was in the air so it was hard to loot him. The level design was poorly laid out, just going from one floor to the next almost completely identical. It is filled with invisible walls and a lot of bugs in general. There are lots of loot there, you can jack in to things to make money, which makes no sense since the game it about to end anyway.

The storytelling itself is fine, but is ruined by the poor level design. Which simply isn't interesting. Even if the final fight against Adam smasher was working, it seems weirdly misplaced, because you as player couldn't really care less, as this is something that is connected to something in the past and to some characters that you don't really feel all that connected to, like Rogue and Weyland. Silverhand is fine. But rarely in my playthrough did I care about Adam Smasher, because he doesn't really have anything to do with V or interferes in her life. Maybe if he had killed Jackie or one of the other characters that you actually cared about as V it would make a lot more sense. Or if he were hired to hunt you down during the game. But you really don't feel invested in Silverhand's fight against him, as you are fighting with your own problems.

As you wake up after having completed the mission, things get even stranger. There is this weird scene where you walk to the roof as Silverhand, which makes no sense. And then you get into the Net with Alt and V as Johnny. I told V that I would stick to what I promised her and return the body to her, and you are told to go along the bridge. V then starts to attack you? Which confused me so much, that I turned around, because I weren't sure if it was a bug or something, so I went to the well instead, which then made me wake up as Johnny.... So I had to reload, because that was not my intention.

After reloading I walked down the bridge and then noticed that you were probably trying to make it look like it was Johnny that wanted to stop me and not V, which makes no sense, because at no point are you made aware that their roles have changed and besides that, I chose the option as Johnny to give the body back because I saw V as my friend, so why the hell would he be angry 5 seconds later and start beating you?

Then I woke up next to Judy, since I chose to call her I think earlier in the mission, that was a nice touch. But what confused me is why I woke up in a huge mansion, with swimming pool, private helipad? Where did that come from? At no point during my choices to go with Johnny and rogue, is it even remotely indicated that you make a lot of money here. And it is later revealed in the flying car, that it have been a week or so.

Judy then suddenly starts complaining that she doesn't feel right, and you treat her like she is not even there, where did that came from, there are no option in the game to treat her nicely, and one week before this whole mission she is very happy for you, despite what you have to do, and then when it's finally over, she decide to leave, makes no sense? And why do you suddenly own Afterlife, where did that come from, you just magically got that from Rogue? Also the daughter and son of Arasaka, must have known that you were the one screwing around in there. Yet a week after you have blown their whole thing to pieces they don't care and just let you run a place like Afterlife as if nothing have happened, it shouldn't be difficult for them to track you down as she has your number and have already showed how easy she can track you at the motel earlier?

This whole ending really doesn't work, there are way to many shortcuts and stuff that have nothing to do with what you have done for the last 124 hours, given that this whole ending take roughly an 1 hour to complete, if you are slow. To me, this ending felt like it belong to a completely different playthrough compared to what choices I had made. I know, that I let Silverhand be in control, but I don't even feel that it belong to him, as he didn't seem to care much for Adam smasher either. I honestly think that this belonged to Rogue or in lesser degree Alt, which are both characters I have close to no connection to.

The path getting to the ending have been an absolute blast, if it weren't for all the bugs, but the ending and the last mission, with the extremely unbalanced combat system, felt more like a severe kick in the private parts to be honest and an absolutely mess and disappointing ending for both V and Silverhand.

I really think this whole ending should be completely remade, because it doesn't make any sense at all!!!

 

[LeKill3rFou]

So I chose to go with the Johnny and Rogue solution. First of all the mission itself was very boring and easy due to how combat works. Cyberware suicide, system reset and cyberpsychosis, not only make it ridiculously easy. But it ruins the combat completely, not only in this mission but in general. But in this mission there is hardly any enemies so its a complete walkover and doesn't match the whole setup that it is dangerous at all, it's easier than most gigs.

Yep, that's true, but you don't "have to use" them. Personally, even at level 20 in INT, I never use System Reset and Contagion, because those QHs are way too powerful (both are equiped for their passive abilities).
It's the same in many games

Spoiler

Like in BD3, I have an Atlas O.P.H System with which I literally roll over all enemies/bosses even in chaos mode. So I don't use it.
Like in Fallout 4, I have a legendary combat rifle with 2 bullets per shot hability. It's the same, I don't use it.

The storytelling itself is fine, but is ruined by the poor level design. Which simply isn't interesting. Even if the final fight against Adam smasher was working, it seems weirdly misplaced, because you as player couldn't really care less, as this is something that is connected to something in the past and to some characters that you don't really feel all that connected to, like Rogue and Weyland. Silverhand is fine. But rarely in my playthrough did I care about Adam Smasher, because he doesn't really have anything to do with V or interferes in her life. Maybe if he had killed Jackie or one of the other characters that you actually cared about as V it would make a lot more sense. Or if he were hired to hunt you down during the game. But you really don't feel invested in Silverhand's fight against him, as you are fighting with your own problems.

You could say the same of Oda, Sasquatch or Placide. They appear very shortly before (or not at all ).
Except for Smasher who have already tried to kill you at the end of "The Heist" and Graysom tells you that Smasher likes to take care of this kind of problem personally and that he will find you. So it seem to me, a good idea to take care about him at one time or another.

As you wake up after having completed the mission, things get even stranger. There is this weird scene where you walk to the roof as Silverhand, which makes no sense. And then you get into the Net with Alt and V as Johnny. I told V that I would stick to what I promised her and return the body to her, and you are told to go along the bridge. V then starts to attack you? Which confused me so much, that I turned around, because I weren't sure if it was a bug or something, so I went to the well instead, which then made me wake up as Johnny.... So I had to reload, because that was not my intention.

Yep, I agree, that's seem a little bit weird. But for me, it's more related to what Alt said (V's body is Johnny's now) and probably if V have told johnny that he would do the same (would you take a bullet for me? Yes or No).
But I agree, it's a little bit strange

For the rest, I think that we have already discuss about that

 

[Mobster100]

Yep, that's true, but you don't "have to use" them.

Sure, I could also not use healing items and cover the top of my screen with a blanket

These are just excuses in my opinion, if CDPR thinks that this is how combat should work, because its not only an issue with hacking, its more of a general problem i think, with smart weapons and tech weapons etc. that is fine. But to me you simply become a God in the end of the game, to the point where it, at least for me weren't fun anymore. If people think this is fun, that is perfectly fine, I have no issues with that, I can only say that I don't enjoy playing games where its like you have an aim bot and can one shot everything, I don't think it make my character cool and I simply find it boring.

So to me, personally, I consider it poor combat design. Again if others think this is absolutely epic and the most fun ever, that is fine with me.

You could say the same of Oda, Sasquatch or Placide. They appear very shortly before (or not at all ).
Except for Smasher who have already tried to kill you at the end of "The Heist" and Graysom tells you that Smasher likes to take care of this kind of problem personally and that he will find you. So it seem to me, a good idea to take care about him at one time or another.

My issue with this, is that V is hired to break in and screw things over with Arasaka, You (V) is in the wrong here. So being all angry at them not liking it, doesn't really justify that V is the bad person here. Arasaka hired Smasher to take care of scumbags like V Which he doesn't do anyway, he is not really after you at all, so V don't really have a reason to be angry at him. Its also V and Jackie that screw up things with the chip, so you can't really blame Arasaka for that either. They defend their property if we are to be honest, and even if it is a scummy company, they are at least correct, in regards to it being them that have been wronged by V and Jackie and not the other way around.

And that is why I weren't invested in Adam Smasher at all during my game, I hardly thought of him and I kind of knew that he would be the final boss, but it was completely hollow, first of all because I personally (real life) didn't care about him, V as a character have no motive for hating him. Silverhands motive from what I understood, is because he want Rogue to have revenge for something, but I didn't really get the impression that Silverhand himself is all that concerned about Smasher either. The problem is, that Rogue tells you that it has nothing to do with Smasher, which to me when adding it all together was slightly confusing, because it doesn't seem like any of the characters care about him at all. So going to the final boss battle, it just didn't have any real impact on me. And besides that, I had no real connection to Rogue and V doesn't either or at least I didn't cared about her in any way, like you do with Jackie or some of the other characters.

Sure others might feel different, but to me, Rogue were not an important character in my playthrough.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Silverhands motive from what I understood, is because he want Rogue to have revenge for something, but I didn't really get the impression that Silverhand himself is all that concerned about Smasher either. The problem is, that Rogue tells you that it has nothing to do with Smasher

Maybe you have miss some things :
During "Play it Safe", Johnny talk about Smasher when he listen him (with Oda).
"I'm glad this scum is here! As I woke up in a world without Saburo, I'll settle for Smasher..."
"Will you be satisfied with...? We see that you have nothing to lose you !!!"

V promise to Johnny to kill Smasher in the Pistis Sophia Hotel (where Johnny talk you about Corpo war).
"No matter what happens to me, V, promise me one thing, it is to kill Smasher, let him disappear from the surface of the earth"

So yeah, it's important for Johnny and also for Rogue if you listen her during Shippin' In

Edit :
Play it safe at the right time :

Pistis Sophia at right time :

And Rogue during Shippin In at the right time :

 

[northwold]

Hardly know if this is suppose to be reported as a bug or as a suggestion, because it's so confusing and makes so little sense.

Game difficulty: Very hard.
Time spend on playthrough: 125 hours or so, so it weren't a quickrun.

Spoiler: An ending

These are the options I chose for my game.

So I chose to go with the Johnny and Rogue solution. First of all the mission itself was very boring and easy due to how combat works. Cyberware suicide, system reset and cyberpsychosis, not only make it ridiculously easy. But it ruins the combat completely, not only in this mission but in general. But in this mission there is hardly any enemies so its a complete walkover and doesn't match the whole setup that it is dangerous at all, it's easier than most gigs.

The final boss completely bugged, just standing there, when he died he was in the air so it was hard to loot him. The level design was poorly laid out, just going from one floor to the next almost completely identical. It is filled with invisible walls and a lot of bugs in general. There are lots of loot there, you can jack in to things to make money, which makes no sense since the game it about to end anyway.

The storytelling itself is fine, but is ruined by the poor level design. Which simply isn't interesting. Even if the final fight against Adam smasher was working, it seems weirdly misplaced, because you as player couldn't really care less, as this is something that is connected to something in the past and to some characters that you don't really feel all that connected to, like Rogue and Weyland. Silverhand is fine. But rarely in my playthrough did I care about Adam Smasher, because he doesn't really have anything to do with V or interferes in her life. Maybe if he had killed Jackie or one of the other characters that you actually cared about as V it would make a lot more sense. Or if he were hired to hunt you down during the game. But you really don't feel invested in Silverhand's fight against him, as you are fighting with your own problems.

As you wake up after having completed the mission, things get even stranger. There is this weird scene where you walk to the roof as Silverhand, which makes no sense. And then you get into the Net with Alt and V as Johnny. I told V that I would stick to what I promised her and return the body to her, and you are told to go along the bridge. V then starts to attack you? Which confused me so much, that I turned around, because I weren't sure if it was a bug or something, so I went to the well instead, which then made me wake up as Johnny.... So I had to reload, because that was not my intention.

After reloading I walked down the bridge and then noticed that you were probably trying to make it look like it was Johnny that wanted to stop me and not V, which makes no sense, because at no point are you made aware that their roles have changed and besides that, I chose the option as Johnny to give the body back because I saw V as my friend, so why the hell would he be angry 5 seconds later and start beating you?

Then I woke up next to Judy, since I chose to call her I think earlier in the mission, that was a nice touch. But what confused me is why I woke up in a huge mansion, with swimming pool, private helipad? Where did that come from? At no point during my choices to go with Johnny and rogue, is it even remotely indicated that you make a lot of money here. And it is later revealed in the flying car, that it have been a week or so.

Judy then suddenly starts complaining that she doesn't feel right, and you treat her like she is not even there, where did that came from, there are no option in the game to treat her nicely, and one week before this whole mission she is very happy for you, despite what you have to do, and then when it's finally over, she decide to leave, makes no sense? And why do you suddenly own Afterlife, where did that come from, you just magically got that from Rogue? Also the daughter and son of Arasaka, must have known that you were the one screwing around in there. Yet a week after you have blown their whole thing to pieces they don't care and just let you run a place like Afterlife as if nothing have happened, it shouldn't be difficult for them to track you down as she has your number and have already showed how easy she can track you at the motel earlier?

This whole ending really doesn't work, there are way to many shortcuts and stuff that have nothing to do with what you have done for the last 124 hours, given that this whole ending take roughly an 1 hour to complete, if you are slow. To me, this ending felt like it belong to a completely different playthrough compared to what choices I had made. I know, that I let Silverhand be in control, but I don't even feel that it belong to him, as he didn't seem to care much for Adam smasher either. I honestly think that this belonged to Rogue or in lesser degree Alt, which are both characters I have close to no connection to.

The path getting to the ending have been an absolute blast, if it weren't for all the bugs, but the ending and the last mission, with the extremely unbalanced combat system, felt more like a severe kick in the private parts to be honest and an absolutely mess and disappointing ending for both V and Silverhand.

I really think this whole ending should be completely remade, because it doesn't make any sense at all!!!

There are some issues with how the cyberspace sequence works when you play as Johnny. I also had V being very aggressive for seemingly no reason when Johnny was going to give V the body. I do wonder if that's a glitch / the various player options weren't properly thought through OR the dialogue choices presented to the player weren't proofread properly for sense, because nothing remotely as weird happens in the interaction between V and Johnny when you play the ending as V.

Some of your post, though, reads like you may have missed things in the narrative. Eg I don't recall it being stated that only a few weeks have passed when you wake up in the penthouse. My impression was that quite a significant period had passed. That jump to owning Afterlife doesn't please everyone but it is a story development, and short of text rolling down the screen explaining what V had for breakfast over the last six months (or whatever it is), I'm not sure how much clearer they could have made it that a narrative jump has occurred and things have changed.

V is played by you, but nonetheless the creators do make choices in respect of how he or she behaves and where he or she takes the story.