How are you planning to run 64 GB of 3200 MHz RAM with Ryzen 7? Even 32 GB seems challenging on such frequency. I think you need Threadripper for such scenario, since it has a better memory controller. I was thinking of switching from 16 GB to 32 GB myself for my Ryzen 7 2700X (using this G.Skill RAM kit), but many point out, that it can be challenging to run it at 3200 MHz, especially with advertised latencies like 14-14-14-34. I imagine 64 GB RAM would be even more difficult.
Regarding cooling, I was thinking of using liquid, but it's just too messy. Air cooling works well for me with Noctua (double fan cooler).
I would say that 64 GB of RAM at this point is overkill unless you're planning to use it for productivity (compiling, rendering 3D footage, running a server, etc.). 16 GB should be fine, and 32 GB plenty to set up for any games in the foreseeable future.
The important bit is getting good RAM. I used Corsair forever, but in my latest build I used G.Skill Ripjaws, and I can definitely recommend it.
More RAM can be useful for running VMs. For me 32 GB would be optimal for now, since I sometimes approach RAM limit with 16 GB when compiling amdvlk or Mesa, since I prefer to do it inside a VM (Linux guest on Linux host using qemu/kvm) in order to keep the base system clean.
In case of Ryzen, higher frequency RAM is useful, since it improves IPC (search for "infinity fabric" which is AMD's codename for their internal CPU communication bus). That bus operates at the frequency of RAM. But running RAM at high frequency requires a powerful controller, the more RAM you have. At some point you just hit the limit, and it's chip specific. Some chips have better quality even for the same CPU. For Threadripper, AMD made a better memory controller, so it's known to support more RAM at better frequencies than Ryzen 7 2700X. But again, it might be an overkill for common scenarios.
How are you planning to run 64 GB of 3200 MHz RAM with Ryzen 7? Even 32 GB seems challenging on such frequency. I think you need Threadripper for such scenario, since it has a better memory controller. I was thinking of switching from 16 GB to 32 GB myself for my Ryzen 7 2700X (using this G.Skill RAM kit), but many point out, that it can be challenging to run it at 3200 MHz, especially with advertised latencies like 14-14-14-34. I imagine 64 GB RAM would be even more difficult.
Regarding cooling, I was thinking of using liquid, but it's just too messy. Air cooling works well for me with Noctua (double fan cooler).
Valid concerns, which did heavily factor into my decisions, along with going with a PSU with the most efficient and stable power delivery for the wattage I'd need & a highly tunable mobo to help with customized voltages and clockings, here's my reasoning for why I went with what I did.
With the memory I selected it because ryzen does significantly better with b-die, and this model had better latency than many lower frequency modules. I am not sure if I'll run it at 3200 or if I'll downvolt which should result in even better latency which seems to be what Ryzen struggles with the most. My plan is to start with the mobo auto-optimization, run some tests, downclock to the next standard frequency step test, rinse and repeat to hone in what I need. Worst case scenario by official minimum stability tests suggest I should be able to run 4 16 GB modules at 1866 *EDIT* These chips are single rank so minimum stability speed for four modules should be: 2133 not 1866 */EDIT*, but given that it is rated for a solid 14-14-14-34 at 3200 & 1.35V I'm pretty optimistic about finding a workable frequency which should also benefit power consumption and latency over buying lower frequency modules. I did find some lower frequency dies with lower CLs, but they were either just generic 10 or 12, or 10-12, 12-14, etc and I've always found dies with less tight timings to be less stable and more likely to not operate at rated values, with 16 gb modules 14-14-14-34 was the best I found at any frequency, then I narrowed it to b-die modules and found the highest frequency at those timings to give extra headroom.
I favored Ryzen over Threadripper because I usually don't run more than a couple of vm's at a time and the workloads I usually do (along with gaming) tend to perform better on R2 as the cpu die interconnects on TR2 is more of a limiting factor than the reduced parallel processing. Well less the interconnect because it is the same version of infinity fabric used for both, but the reduced communication over that same interconnect due to fewer dies. The work I do that would benefit more from TR is usually done on other servers, I do have to say it was a really tough decision that ultimately boiled down to roughly equal if not superior performance on R2 over TR2 with my specific workloads, needing more than 32 but less than 64 GB ram, and the combination of cpu, top of the line mobo & cooler being less than the TR2 cpu alone.
I agree with the liquid being messy and error prone, but went with an AIO liquid solution that people rate highly on its longevity and stability for the CPU to reduce those issues, give me a little more thermal headroom for the mobo heatsinked m.2 drive, and to reduce the air flow turbulence of a large air cooler. Speaking of the m2, I do a LOT of data retrieval, storage and memory IO is way more of a bottleneck for my work than having additional threads, so not only having the increased retrieval speed but the reduced latency of a more direct cpu connect over pci-e vs SATA is HUGE for me, that is actually what almost pushed me over to TR where I could dedicate 12 lanes just to m2 drives, but while I do a ton of retrieval I do fairly minimal writes so having more than 2TB for me is kind of overkill (heck 1TB is a bit much for me), so I really only need the 4 lanes.
TLDR: I chose high frequency and "overclocker" enthusiast parts, not expecting to run at the rated frequency, but with decent reasoning to expect better than stock performance when finding the optimal configuration.
I would say that 64 GB of RAM at this point is overkill unless you're planning to use it for productivity (compiling, rendering 3D footage, running a server, etc.). 16 GB should be fine, and 32 GB plenty to set up for any games in the foreseeable future.
The important bit is getting good RAM. I used Corsair forever, but in my latest build I used G.Skill Ripjaws, and I can definitely recommend it.
I typically run a couple of low processor but memory heavy VMs, a couple of my bigger projects eat up around 32 gb when running the ide/debugger, other dev tools like memory based emulated cloud table storage and caching, database, and the project itself, that's aside from the OS, browsers, etc. Though I typically wouldn't need more that mid 40's and I can work with 32, but it is a hassle. When gaming I know I can get away with 16 in most situations, but that is like 20% of what I use my computer for.
I went with gskills ripjaws V because of how highly regarded they are, and comparing many benchmark tests showing they tend to run stable and closer to rated timings than many other big enthusiast brands like corsair.
It's modular, but still easy to use, so closer to AIO in practice. All those common AIO coolers like Corsair seem to be made by the same ODMs and many point out problems with them. It's a trade-off. You can't replace the coolant so you need to replace the whole cooler after some time. That Phoneix one allows replacing the coolant.
But maintenance is still involved. So I just went with Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4 for simplicity, since I don't need to overclock the CPU and it cools it pretty well.
It's modular, but still easy to use, so closer to AIO in practice. All those common AIO coolers like Corsair seem to be made by the same ODMs and many point out problems with them. It's a trade-off. You can't replace the coolant so you need to replace the whole cooler after some time. That Phoneix one allows replacing the coolant.
But maintenance is still involved. So I just went with Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4 for simplicity, since I don't need to overclock the CPU and it cools it pretty well.
Aww man, I hadn't heard mention of that one, that would be pretty ideal. Mine isn't modular, but it was fairly inexpensive for what it is, is PWM compliant, is supposed to be really quiet (I hate fan noise, and went with a case designed for quieter operation), and is a highly suggested fit for my case (heck both are the same company: fractal design).
When mine needs to get replaced (though many people are reporting several leak free years on this one, some report a year or so but it has a 5 year warranty), I'll probably look into a more modular one like that.
So in case anyone is interested. I requested an RMA on the Seasonic website Tuesday evening. Wednesday morning it was authorized and I had to pack just the PSU with whatever DC cables I used. The shipping address was some distributor near me. I sent it with DHL that same morning and they received it 24 hours later. The testing stage began immediately (around 11 am) and now that I just checked (almost 2 pm) it's already completed and they determined it was defective. At this very moment they are preparing a replacement unit.
I sent an SSR-650RM (G-Series Gold) and will receive an SSR-650FX (Focus Plus Gold), which is exactly the model I purchased to replace it I don't know if it is refurbished or new. If I had known they would respond so quickly I would have simply RMA'ed instead of ordering a new one and going through that idiotic exchange with the delivery people.
So there you have it guys. I am blown away by the efficiency of Seasonic's RMA.
Edit: It's a new unit and it is scheduled to arrive tomorrow! Holy shit! Only "meh" thing is that according to their website, replacement units inherit the remaining warranty of the original PSU. So I guess this means this PSU has 2 years instead of 10 years? What should I do? Sell it cheap? Keep it?
Edit 2: Aaaand the new PSU arrived. 3 (business) days RMA, not bad at all. I'm kind of impressed.
Like i said before, Seasonic is the best you can get. Even the best can fail though and you were just unlucky to have that experience.
Long time builder, plus i've worked with one of southern hemisphere's largest retailers.
CPU - Intel. Ive seen more dead AMD cpus in just 1 month than ive seen in 25 years of intel. (CPU failure is obviously rare but diff is astounding) Fans & Coolers - Noctua (no one comes close to their quality & service such as their free, future proof mount kit upgrades. Prob the biggest difference in the entire PC industry) Mobo - Asus. (this does NOT include their monitors). All mobos remain a high point of failure vs other parts RAM - Crucial (also Samsung, Kingston, Corsair). I am dismayed by Gskill's popularity (though not as bad as Geil & others) SSDs - Intel, Samsung & Crucial HDDs - Western Digital Black & Hitachi Ultrastar. (different models within all brands have HUGE diff in failure rate) GPUs - Asus, EVGA, MSI. (nvidia) Big difference in failure rate of AMD vs Nvidia, regardless of board manufacturer. Not sure why. Avoid Sapphire (they belong in bargain basement). Gigabyte has lost the plot with QA since about 2010. Including their mobos. PSUs - Seasonic. If other brands one has to find out because the quality is myriad. Nearly all are outsource manufactured. For e.g., Cooler master actually has some good PSUs - the vanguard series. Lo & behold they made by seasonic. Cases - Fractal Design & Be quiet. (Top service. Always straight & true build quality. Never come across a threaded screw. Oh hai Coolermaster (real shite though they are improving) & NZXT! Practically every time you have to push back plate in to square up with PCI slots. Monitors - Samsung. Also Dell & LG (though not all models are made equally)
I disagree about Sapphire. I've been using their AMD GPUs for a while and they are top quality. Their coolers and heatsinks are great.
Also, not sure where you get the numbers about failure rates, but AMD CPUs are very competitive today. First release of Ryzen however had a number of hardware bugs, that were simply unfixable. I guess it's to be expected from the first release of a brand new architecture. Which suggests that it's a good idea not buy a CPU from first release of new architecture, but to wait for a refresh.
G.Skill RAM was recommended by many for a Ryzen build, and it works very well for me. It's not cheap, so quality is to be expected for such price.
Yeah it was surprising to see a knock against g.skill while seeing a suggestion for samsung as it seems that samsung appears to be the primary manufacturer for most of their product.
@Triffid Why include HDD's at all in there if your concern is hardware failure? Annual Failure Rate on SSDs are a fraction of what they are in HDD's on par with <1% vs >4% and anymore the difference in price per GB is comparable to the difference in price of operation over the life of the drive with the SSDs using >60% less energy and having fewer failures.
I disagree about Sapphire. I've been using their AMD GPUs for a while and they are top quality. Their coolers and heatsinks are great.
Also, not sure where you get the numbers about failure rates, but AMD CPUs are very competitive today. First release of Ryzen however had a number of hardware bugs, that were simply unfixable. I guess it's to be expected from the first release of a brand new architecture. Which suggests that it's a good idea not buy a CPU from first release of new architecture, but to wait for a refresh.
G.Skill RAM was recommended by many for a Ryzen build, and it works very well for me. It's not cheap, so quality is to be expected for such price.
Regarding Sapphire, unless you were getting a good discount, i would have suggested you go with other brands.
When i was there Ryzen wasn't yet released. CPU failure was rare but i did not see one intel failure over a year. In one month we had 5 dead AMD. Keep in mind that intel outsold AMD by a ridiculous margin.
This held true for AMD based mobos & GPUs. Mobos and GPUs had about the same number of returns yet were massively outsold by intel & nvidia based gear.
The warehouse guys built a 'system of doom', and covered it in marketing stickers & labels.
AMD, an old (original) OZ ssd, thermaltake psu, geil ram, etc. It never failed though!
Gskill is the epitome of fancy lights, zany heatsinks and marketing. Their market share has increased dramatically over past decade and theyve done really well in having a massive selection of speed & timings, catering for enthusiasts.
Look in the RAM RMA bin and it was constantly filled with gskill. I never saw a single crucial (micron) return. They have a massive share of enterprise market for good reason. Whether it was the modules or boards failing on Gskill i do not know. It wasn't only Samsung modules they used.
One thing - you'd never believe how many people bend mobo pins or cover them in thermal paste. (i dont mean just excess use of paste, i mean applying paste directly, underneath the CPU)
Yeah it was surprising to see a knock against g.skill while seeing a suggestion for samsung as it seems that samsung appears to be the primary manufacturer for most of their product.
@Triffid Why include HDD's at all in there if your concern is hardware failure? Annual Failure Rate on SSDs are a fraction of what they are in HDD's on par with <1% vs >4% and anymore the difference in price per GB is comparable to the difference in price of operation over the life of the drive with the SSDs using >60% less energy and having fewer failures.
Because we still need HDDs for mass storage. Granted we should expect data storage to fail and have redundancy/backup, but to save drama its not a bad idea/waste of $ to pony up and go with a decent model.
I am planning to buy computer parts for the upcoming cyberpunk game.. i know the specs are not known.. but i the question i have is not really related to the specs.
Amazon USA computer parts are all priced without state tax and usa has no national VAT. so the question is.
When you buy stuff from amazon.. i get :
Subtotal (9 items): $880.30 (in euro is that 760,73 Euro)
the same parts in Germany Amazon is:
Subtotal (9 items): EUR 919.15 (in dollar is that 1.063,62)
German Amazon is incl VAT..
is USA so much cheaper to buy computer parts or does the USA peeps has to pay other stuff that i am not aware of?
(((( the Ryzen 2700X is 60% higher priced in Europe )))
Remember that you have to pay import taxes and VAT (depending on the web shop). Add this together and the parts will cost about the same. Furthermore, the return procedure is more complicated. So, I wouldn't recommend buying parts in the USA.
Concur with Gilrond. I find Newegg to be much better.
I am in Australia and, for high end GPUs, a considerable saving can be made from importation.
If purchasing a single part like CPU it isnt worth it. In May i did a major hardware overhaul and bought a bunch from Newegg - CPU, RAM and 2 SSDs. (intel 8700k, Corsair ram and Samsung nvmes). Saved a lot of $, mostly on the SSDs.
Mobos fail a lot (as ive said in previous posts) and i would NOT risk the chance of hardware failure. Buy mobos local. Same with PSUs and, even though the heads are parked, i'm too paranoid to ship HDDs (couriers playing football with packages).
Previously, around September/October 2017, i purchased an MSI 1080ti gaming X for $950 AU, including shipping. The same GPU sold here, cheapest price, for $1199 AU.
Amazingly, during the height of the cryptocrap currency price influx, it would have been cheaper for US customers to import from Australia as the price hardly rose here.
MSI gaming Xs are superb and i'm willing to risk that it wont fail (not the cheaper Armor), Ive had every version since the gtx 980. EVGA does have international warranty, so you may want to consider that.
If you're upgrading JUST for this game id consider holding off, at the very least, until we have a release date. Things have been crazy in the pc market and youll prob get much more bang for your buck at a later date.
Edit: forgot to say that since July 01 2018, Australian customs now charge 10% tax on all imports. Previously it was only for shipments over $1k (you could avoid by splitting orders if over).
The cheapest way I've found to do it (and the way I buy my gear) is to buy individual components directly through authorized vendors in your actual area. Of course, vendors are not always available, or you'll have to hunt for them. This way, the vendor orders your parts at cost and usually pays nothing or next-to-nothing on shipping -- saves tons of money. Not sure how the VAT would work in exactly. I've done it numerous times in the US, twice in the UAE, and once in Europe. I always saved hundreds of dollars (at least ) in the end.
Cons of doing it this way are mostly time and lots of research.
I've met a lot of time-wasters that want to pretend they're vendors when they're actually not. Many true vendors simply don't want to do business that way. Others will still hike the price up too much. Some will offer only test models of hardware this way. (Nothing necessarily wrong there, but they're often either used or not covered under warranty.) So, to ensure you're getting a good deal, you need to know both the hardware and the shop really well.
I don't know if it is refurbished or new. If I had known they would respond so quickly I would have simply RMA'ed instead of ordering a new one and going through that idiotic exchange with the delivery people.
