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Building a gaming PC

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Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#2,781
Mar 18, 2020
Skirlasvoud said:
I shudder to think of what a brand new RDNA2 / Navi 2x is going to cost though. Must be upwards of 600 - 900 euros. The new consoles can't be much cheaper than that either.
Click to expand...
I don't expect any unusual pricing. They said that RDNA2 will have the whole range of cards, from lower to higher end, so something matching current Navi cards in price should also be available.

And they for sure going to be better than any APU they'll put in consoles. APUs are lower end by definition.
 
Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
P

Pangaea666

Forum veteran
#2,782
Mar 18, 2020
Aye, I'd be greatly surprised if what comes out in consoles is going to "destroy" top end GPUs. That would be a first by some distance. But we'll see. I'm certainly more intrigued to learn what RDNA 2 will offer once it is out. Especially if it has fewer problems on Linux than RDNA had (and to an extent still has, unless you use bleeding edge distros).
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#2,783
Mar 18, 2020
Skirlasvoud said:
I was right on the money that the 3700X would be roughly equivalent to the console's CPU.
Click to expand...
I don't think it would. APUs generally have lower boost frequencies than standalone desktop CPUs. And especially since consoles rarely have good thermals (compact form factor), they won't boost well.

And it would make more sense to compare it not to Zen 2, but to the upcoming Zen 3 analogs.
 
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Restlessdingo32

Restlessdingo32

Senior user
#2,784
Mar 19, 2020
Gilrond-i-Virdan said:
I don't think it would. APUs generally have lower boost frequencies than standalone desktop CPUs. And especially since consoles rarely have good thermals (compact form factor), they won't boost well.
Click to expand...
I was under the impression the new Xbox is going to be using locked frequencies. 3.6-3.8ghz on the CPU side (SMT on vs off, respectively) and ~1.8ghz for the GPU (1825mhz I believe).

Expecting it to curb stomp every current "gaming PC" is a bit premature. Expecting it to be competitive with most current gaming PC's probably isn't. Whether it remains competitive going forward, as new PC hardware enters the fold, is another matter. Regardless, it's certainly impressive for a console if the info released so far is true.

Of course, I have doubts the system with the advertised specs is going to follow prices seen with current generation devices. It seems more likely the prices are going to go up.
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#2,785
Mar 19, 2020
If it's fixed, then something like 3700X is already better: base: 3.6 GHz, boost - 4.4 GHz.
https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-3700x
Let alone a comparable upgrade of that CPU from Zen 3 generation.

So I'd say consoles might be competing with laptops, which also use APUs. Desktop CPUs are by default a different category.
 
Restlessdingo32

Restlessdingo32

Senior user
#2,786
Mar 19, 2020
Gilrond-i-Virdan said:
If it's fixed, then something like 3700X is already better: base: 3.6 GHz, boost - 4.4 GHz.
Click to expand...
From a frequency standpoint, sure. Frequency isn't the only variable though. Plus, one should always question whether "better" matters. A lot of games can be run with older and/or weaker CPU's in them and perform perfectly fine. The GPU is usually the limiting factor for graphically demanding games. This is not always the case, of course. It depends on the game.

Comparisons between a console with an "APU" or whatever solution is being used vs a typical desktop don't often fit perfectly to begin with. It's far more involved then a few numbers slapped on a couple individual parts. This is before even considering the various tricks and whatnot employed by consoles to dynamically adjust graphical fidelity on the fly (I see no reason to expect these will go away... it's more likely they'll be expanded upon).
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#2,787
Mar 19, 2020
Comparing hardware itself is perfectly valid. Console APUs are not far removed from regular desktop / laptop APUs. Console makers try to tweak them to stand out, but it only goes that far. AMD has no reason not to offer comparable or even better in performance parts to laptop and embedded system makers. Unlike incumbent consoles, the later aren't limited with artificial requirement to make one model with fixed hardware in almost a decade. So there can be a whole range of APUs out there, some even better than what console makers are going to be using (especially as time goes on and next generations are coming out, while consoles are lingering on their selected level).

And combination of desktop CPU and desktop GPU will always have higher raw computational power. What APU usually is good at is may be faster CPU to GPU data transfer, due to full integration. Something like HBM memory can also give it a boost.

In regards to what games do to utilize hardware - that's completely up to developers, engines and etc. But we can make an assumption that modern games are already written with maximizing parallelism of both CPU and GPU, and therefore scale according to hardware resources provided. Given that assumption, incumbent consoles don't look like anything impressive in comparison with desktop systems.
 
Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
eskiMoe

eskiMoe

Mentor
#2,788
Mar 19, 2020
Apparently the (unoptimized) Gears 5 demo was pushing 2080 level performance on Series X, which is impressive af.

Also, MS rolling out DX12 "Ultimate".


 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#2,789
Mar 19, 2020
I've read it as MS trolling (developers?) with DX12 :) It will take their gaming division tanking and Phil Spencer removed, for MS to adopt open standards, like they did in the browsers.
 
Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
eskiMoe

eskiMoe

Mentor
#2,790
Mar 19, 2020
We do not live in an ideal world. I'm just happy if this means devs will finally stop using DX11..
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#2,791
Mar 19, 2020
Advanced engines are already using Vulkan, they don't need DX12. The only leverage MS has is through forcing DX12 on Xbox.
 
eskiMoe

eskiMoe

Mentor
#2,792
Mar 19, 2020
The AMD demo looks bad tho. Just goes to show how a bad art style can ruin a presentation.
 
eskiMoe

eskiMoe

Mentor
#2,793
Mar 22, 2020

id devs be wizards.
 
eskiMoe

eskiMoe

Mentor
#2,794
Mar 31, 2020
 
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#2,795
Mar 31, 2020
Impressive. AMD are doing a good job. I wouldn't buy an Intel laptop these days.
 
metalmaniac21

metalmaniac21

Senior user
#2,796
Mar 31, 2020
Impressive how AMD is going to step on it's own throat and return to monolithic design instead of chiplets (Where Intel failed in 2005 and 2008-2010, RIP P4 and Nehalem) despite the latter being easier and profitable so laptop vendors, sony and microsoft would agree to greenlit Zen 2 in their products. So monolithic CPU IS better design no matter what.
 
Maverick074

Maverick074

Rookie
#2,797
Mar 31, 2020
you should be able to find parts on ebay for cheaper
 
metalmaniac21

metalmaniac21

Senior user
#2,798
Mar 31, 2020
So-o-o, RTX looks really BAD, 2xxx or 3xxx based on rumors from HW news sites the new GPUs are dancing around RTX 2080 TI regarding raw performance. Am I fucked or best deal ever if I wait for RDNA 2 and skip Nvidia altogether during the new console generation? For the reference, I consider R9 290X (not HD 7970) the best GPU ever produced even though I run RX 588 currently.
 
Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
Gilrond-i-Virdan

Gilrond-i-Virdan

Forum veteran
#2,799
Mar 31, 2020
I'd say until hardware comes out, it's all rather speculative. It would be good to see some actual benchmarks towards the end of 2020 when RDNA 2 cards will be out.

Personally, I'm getting RDNA 2 card either way, since it's going to be an improvement over RDNA 1.
 
Myboom123

Myboom123

Rookie
#2,800
Apr 19, 2020
I wish people would stop saying SLI and crossfire is dead. Its only dead because everyone keeps saying it is. If you know anything about it, you would know that in DX12 the developers just have to take advantage of it. I understand that new adopters might not have the incentive but for the people that already have mGPUs, dont destroy our fun by spreading the false propaganda. Its not dead, it just needs some love and supports from developers
 
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