Calanthe needs to be changed. Her ability is unhealthy for the game.

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Power: Provision. Restriction. Deck building requirement. RNG factor. Variance. etc...

Power/provision is based on the faction the leader is in. Of course the leaders can't be balanced on the same criteria. That just wouldn't work. The context of their faction has to be considered above all.

Leaders don't have to have a deck building requirement or an RNG factor.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
Power/provision is based on the faction the leader is in. Of course the leaders can't be balanced on the same criteria. That just wouldn't work. The context of their faction has to be considered above all.

Leaders don't have to have a deck building requirement or an RNG factor.
I am sorry, but almost everything you said here is wrong IMHO. Power and Provisions are common to all factions and their leaders. Strong leaders have less provisions and weak leaders have more provisions to compensate it. Different abilities of the leader can be in the context of the faction and the archetype the leader supports, but overall, it should be nearly equal and fair among all factions and leaders (in an ideal world; which is not going to happen, but should be thrived upon by CDPR).

Leaders don't have a deck building requirements? This statement is going to echo in my nightmare for sometime. Leaders have deck building requirements. Meve needs to build deck which would have many units that benefit from being boosted, Demavand would build decks with many cards that are charges based, DJ would build decks around having many crimes, KoB with tribute units, Fila with units having benefits from handbuffed units, etc. and so on. The only leader who has no deck building requirements is Usurper.

Calanthe not having any restrictions or needs on the deck-buiding and then being able to play any damn CARD is just disgusting. But lets hope CDPR fixes this. If you can play any cards, then it should be earned by the deck-building requirements.
 
Power/provision is based on the faction the leader is in. Of course the leaders can't be balanced on the same criteria. That just wouldn't work. The context of their faction has to be considered above all.

Leaders don't have to have a deck building requirement or an RNG factor.

If you believe that it's based on the faction they're in then Svalblod shouldn't have crazy 17 provisions.

No deck building requirement? Dana, Cleaver, and Ardal's power level is hugely affected on how you build them.

No RNG factor? So you mean to say Calveit has a consistent tutor power? Out of the 6 or more units on the board, Harald pings miraculously pinging the same target for 4 or more times?
 
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rrc

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Like I have said: "Dana and Cleaver are both poorer versions of Calanthe". You are just reiterating what I've mentioned. Also, my explanation goes further: "My guess is that the devs are fully aware of the situation and will change Dana and Emhyr when it's their faction's time to receive an overhaul".

So, how was I not being clear? :think:
What I meant was, Dana and Cleaver can't be compared to Calanthe. Poorer versions of Calanthe doesn't cut. Dana and Cleaver are comparable. So, mentioning them in this thread seemed wrong to me. That is what I meant by "you didn't understand my post". :beer:
 
I am sorry, but almost everything you said here is wrong IMHO. Power and Provisions are common to all factions and their leaders. Strong leaders have less provisions and weak leaders have more provisions to compensate it.

That is exactly my argument. Leaders are not balanced solely on their abilities by themselves. It's what they can do with the cards in their faction.

Different abilities of the leader can be in the context of the faction and the archetype the leader supports, but overall, it should be nearly equal and fair among all factions and leaders (in an ideal world; which is not going to happen, but should be thrived upon by CDPR).

So wouldn't you agree that the devs first did what you say and tried to make the leader balanced compared to the other factions but then when they saw it was weak for Northern Realms they buffed it twice so that it's actually played. That makes perfect sense. It would make zero sense to nerf a leader so that no one plays it. Look at Eredin for example. In Northern Realms his ability would be more powerful because of shield synergies and more and better engines. In monsters it's so bad that it sees virtually no play.

Leaders don't have a deck building requirements? This statement is going to echo in my nightmare for sometime. Leaders have deck building requirements. Meve needs to build deck which would have many units that benefit from being boosted, Demavand would build decks with many cards that are charges based, DJ would build decks around having many crimes, KoB with tribute units, Fila with units having benefits from handbuffed units, etc. and so on. The only leader who has no deck building requirements is Usurper.

I was pointing out that some leaders need a LOT more synergy than others to function. A leader like Adda is going to give good value on it's own. A leader like AQ needs more card synergies. Calanthe needs about the same amount of deck building as Adda does. With Calanthe I can put in a card that I would normally be worried that I wouldn't be able to draw. Knowing that I can choose any card in the last round effects my choices.

Calanthe not having any restrictions or needs on the deck-buiding and then being able to play any damn CARD is just disgusting. But lets hope CDPR fixes this. If you can play any cards, then it should be earned by the deck-building requirements.

You appear to be conflating multiple arguments here. I disagree that there is a problem with deck building. Calanthe fits in fine with other leaders like Usurper and Adda as previously mentioned.

In regards to her ability again it sounds over powered but it isn't so I don't see the problem.
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If you believe that it's based on the faction they're in then Svalblod shouldn't have crazy 17 provisions.

No deck building requirement? Dana, Cleaver, and Ardal's power level is hugely affected on how you build them.

No RNG factor? So you mean to say Calveit has a consistent tutor power? Out of the 6 or more units on the board, Harald pings miraculously pinging the same target for 4 or more times?

If Svalblod is too strong they would simply adjust his provisions. Is he too strong currently?

Some leaders have requirements and some don't. I kind of prefer not having those strict requirements so you have more options. Dana for example I have no interest in playing because all of her decks feel the same to me. It just got old.

I said leaders don't have to have RNG. That has never been a requirement.
 
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Comply with what? When was there ever set criteria for leaders?

Everything is based on something. This is how things are designed, not just in this game, also applies to everyday life. And right now, you're giving the impression that you struggle to grasp this concept.
 
To be fair, it is confusing that they stated they want to reduce consistency in homecoming and then Calanthe has 100% consistency on the most ridiculous cards NR have access to, like Portal, which gets balanced by its deck building requirements and lower consistency.
 
Everything is based on something. This is how things are designed, not just in this game, also applies to everyday life. And right now, you're giving the impression that you struggle to grasp this concept.
Except all leaders are not designed one way so I don't see how Calanthe can be criticised as not adhereing to standards that don't exist.
 
Except all leaders are not designed one way so I don't see how Calanthe can be criticised as not adhereing to standards that don't exist.

It's common sense that leaders are not designed in one way. That would make their abilities boring. You seriously think that there's no standard? So what, they just randomly say f*ck Gerni, let gives her 11 provisions. Eithne? hmmmm. how about 18 provisions.
 
It's common sense that leaders are not designed in one way. That would make their abilities boring. You seriously think that there's no standard? So what, they just randomly say f*ck Gerni, let gives her 11 provisions. Eithne? hmmmm. how about 18 provisions.

Oh so the standard is balancing a leader based on how power it is in its given faction. I completely agree. Calanthe has a good flexible ability and if it's ever too strong just nerf provisions.
 
Changing her ability to strictly "Choose a NR card" and raising her provision bonus by 1 will be enough, I reckon. This will not harm her and it will put her on track with the others.

However, I agree that right now other leaders are more urgent for the nerf hammer. But then again, after today's Pumpkun's new Calanthe deck, we might see more of her in the upcoming days and have the answer by the end of the month (whether her ability is OP or not).
 
My worry is that, even after the remodel of other factions, how can you tweak leaders like Calveit, Dana or Cleaver to beat : "Play any card from your deck" without restriction?
It's actually even stronger than just playing any card from the deck. You can play two cards from your hand for a combo and pick up a card to save for later, like a finisher.
Her ability is just missing a restriction, somewhere, somehow. "Pick up a card at the end of turn" to avoid combos, "Draw a card and then place any card on top of deck" to get it next round, "Pick up a NR card" maybe with a provision thing, to limit her choice...
Even anticipating the future changes in other faction, this choice is just hardly understandable imo.
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It's not even a matter of over powered or not, it's, I think, just common sense.

As mentioned before, all the leaders that can play 2 cards in a turn have restrictions: Dana is basically stuck on playing harmony-like decks, or at least multi-races, to benefit from her ability, which is restrained to ST card.
Cleaver has to put crime cards in his deck if he wants to pick up something higher. Ok, 9 is already pretty good. Problem is the highest crime card is 11 and not the best in SY deck so he has to put other interesting special to have an interesting choice (royal decree, renew, whatever). I just think he's a bad leader btw, this design just doesn't work well...
Calveit can only choose from the first 3. He can play anything if he's combined with fisher king or Albrich but it still needs set up.
Emhyr can also play 2 cards from hand/board, but is limited to NG for pick up.
Anna is super random. Henselt can only pull a bronze. Francesca and Eist only from graveyard and only special or warrior...
Tweak their ability how you want, either you won't beat Calanthe, or they're all the same (at least the first 3, the other still have a specificity).
 
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Ok, 9 is already pretty good. Problem is the highest crime card is 11 and not the best in SY deck so he has to put other interesting special to have an interesting choice (royal decree, renew, whatever). I just think he's a bad leader btw, this design just doesn't work well...
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This is my feelings as well. Cleaver is bad and I have similar feelings for Dana. I don't like the limited design. Free them up to be more like Calanthe and balance with provisions.
 
This is my feelings as well. Cleaver is bad and I have similar feelings for Dana. I don't like the limited design. Free them up to be more like Calanthe and balance with provisions.
Exactly that, that would make them good. The problem as it is now is:
Cleaver: play a special card from your deck
Dana: play a ST card from your deck

That would make them good, but still weaker than Calanthe. Calanthe needs a small restriction as to what she pulls. Or a shitload less provisions than what Dana and Cleaver will have. But like 10 or 11 instead of 16
 
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IF CDPR decides to stick with tutor abilities like Calanthe, this is how i would imagine they would look like. Tutor power that relies on deck building is removed and the tutored card is restricted to their factions.

Queen Calanthe
Provisions: 14
Order: Play a Northern Realm unit from your hand and give it Shield, then draw any Northern Realm unit.

- Made her NR unit restricted and added Shield synergy to help the archetype a little bit. As for her provisions, i think 14 is just right because she has the option to save her tutored unit for later, and the Shield part is a huge deal especially for an early engine setup.

Dana Meadbh
Provisions: 15
Order: Play a Scoia'tael unit form your deck and boost it by (0). This value is raised by 1 for each unique category among Scoia'tael units in your starting deck.

- Made her ST unit restricted and made her tutor power into boost instead. It only counts units now so that it will focus more on units and triggering Harmony. The max value for her boost is 8 i think. With this rework, maybe we can finally see her outside pure Harmony decks.

Cleaver
Provisions: 16
Order: Play a Crime card from your deck.
Whenever you play a Crime card, damage a random enemy unit by 1.

- Make Cleaver the Crime synergy leader instead of DJ. Adding a passive ability might help him a little bit. The Crime restriction is kind of bad right now because there aren't really any Crime that's worth tutoring but who knows, maybe in the future we will have one. Is Justice worth tutoring?

As for Calveit, it's kind of hard to think of a rework for him because there isn't much to work with in NG. Not only they still lack faction identity, they also lack supporting keywords.
 
I like the suggestion, except Cleaver, not fond of him. Why not just play a special card from deck? Also 2 less provisions for each since they are strong and enable 1 turn combos.

For Calveit, could be something like: Look at the top 5 cards of your deck and play one. Then place as many as you want at the bottom of your deck.
 
Like the Clanthe change.

Dana might be a bit too strong, being able to give +8 and tutor a card. In particular with Aglais. I'd rather make the boost increase by 1 for every played ST unit with a unique primary category. This way including more than one card of a primary category gives you consistency and you have to commit a lot more to gain the +8, while a +4 should be easy enough and still strong.

Cleaver sounds too strong for that ability. His provisions should be reduced by 2.

Calveit could have: Look at the top (2) cards of your deck and play 1. Increase the number by 1 for each 2 played mages. Whenever a card in your deck is moved during your turn, boost it by 1.
Why mages? Because lorewise he surrounded himself by mages and astronomers to get information about the future. And most of the cards that have deck consistency are in fact mages, so he would be a leader that is good at planning ahead and manipulating his own deck. Similar to the old mulligan archetype.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Just when i was finally getting used to countering Foltest and Dijkstra's, and also Ardal's and Usurper, now all i seem to face are a ton of Calanthe's.

Basically NR is now just an unstoppable force, whether it's spamming deadly engines for an entire round or point slamming with Blue Stripes and Draugr, there's barely any NR card now that's average or below.

(i know i know, i complain if the meta is stale, and now i complain about it changing... :shrug:)
 
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