Call of Duty put third person view into their new game, RE village selling Third person mode as a DLC, May be 2077 should do the same

[LeKill3rFou]

IMO they scraped TPS because of the amount of technical issue they where having with the character model which is evident when trying the TPS mod. Its fairly obvious despite "it was always only going to be a FPS game from the start" Thats just trying to save face on their part.

You can believe whatever you want, but CDPR "chosen" the first person view because they think it was more immersive... (a "simple" artistic choice).
In TW3, CDPR "chosen" the third person view because they tought it would fit better to the game that they want to make... And they did a awesome job too (artistic choice too).

You can agree or not, but nothing to do with technical issues
I can post a link to a video in which a Red, Patrick Mills (CDPR Franchise & Lore Designer) explain why this "theory" is, to quote him : bullshit !
But not sure you want to^^

(And I guess their next game on Unreal Engine, the Witcher game will be in third person only and the next Cyberpunk game will be in first person only... nothing to do with the Engine too^^)

Edit : And CDPR provide a character creator and put some effort on it, because for some of us, me included, we like to customize our V even if the game is in first person

 

[GrimReaper801]

IMO they scraped TPS because of the amount of technical issue they where having with the character model which is evident when trying the TPS mod. Its fairly obvious despite "it was always only going to be a FPS game from the start" Thats just trying to save face on their part.

This is circular logic.

The reason you see so many issues with the player character model in third pertson is because they went with first person. They deliberately made our model different in order to get first person to work the way they wanted it to. There are so many issues in third person because the game wasn't meant to be played in third person and is thus lacking all the necessary rigging and animations to make it look good.

CDPR has been doing third person camera since the original Witcher game in 2007 and since TW2 in 2011 for RED engine specifically. That's over a decade's worth of experience in third person on REDengine alone. They know how and can do it if they choose to lol.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

The reason you see so many issues with the player character model in third pertson is because they went with first person. They deliberately made our model different in order to get first person to work the way they wanted it to.

I guess for some it's hard to believe that not adding the third person view is a simple and deliberate artistic choice... but prefer to think it's due to lack of time, technical issues, whatever weird reasons...
Third person view is the "best" perspective, so it seems impossible to deliberately choosing to not add it

 

[GrimReaper801]

I guess for some it's hard to believe that not adding the third person view is a simple and deliberate artistic choice... but prefer to think it's due to lack of time, technical issues, whatever weird reasons...
Third person view is the "best" perspective, so it seems impossible to deliberately choosing to not add it

Well, like almost everything in life, people try to rationalize and find reasons behind things not going their way. It's easier than just accepting that's just how things are.

 

[drona.667]

Because they are not shooters. Max Payne is not shooter game, GTA is not shooter game etc. etc. They are action adventure games with shooting mechanics. How can you speak about Max Payne "dynamic" shooting, when whole concept of this game is focused around slow-mo. GTA's shooting is bad, that's it. That's why this discussion is waste of time, with forced arguments like that. No point of even dissecting these games and compare to Cyberpunk as something constructive, they have bad and limited shooting compared to Cyberpunk. Examples like this only are proof that for sake of shooting mechanics : FPP is best.

By this logic, CP2077 is not shooter game too... It is an "action adventure story driven RPG-lite" with shooting mechanics & "melee mechanics." Yes, you can play as V with melee only build, never use gun (unless in certain forced parts). It's not even a fundamental aspect of the game but variaty of options. How can you say Max Payne shooting mechanics is bad when it's literally grandfather of bullet time mechanic?? The very games that popularized such mechanics. It's far more a "shooter" genre then CP2077, as it's the fundamental & integral parts of gameplay loop. it IS dynamic & tactical too. I mean have you ever play this games on actual hard mode?? accuracy, resource management, & action time management are very important things to look out for. I am sorry but this is just talking madness at this point. What's next, are you gonna call Warframe & Vanquish as not a cool "shooter" when this games are all about the rule of cool while shooting? LOL

Once again, this arguments are just circling around, going nowhere, being this & that, without providing legit sensible fair arguments to hold.

 

[northwold]

For clarity, first person character models are completely different from third person character models.

In main series Elder Scrolls games the first person character model is famously a pair of flying arms.

If a first person model doesn't look right in third person, that is exactly how it's supposed to be. Likewise, a third person model used in first person would look completely wrong for various reasons (including that a computer screen cannot naturally contain the 180 degree-ish, including peripheral vision, field of view of the human eye without extreme geometric distortion so you would not be able to see what you would expect to see using a third person model in first person)

What a first person model looks like in third is not an indication that problems with the model somehow prevented it being used in third person. It would never be usable in third and is not intended for that: you'd need a completely different model.

 

[minicrom]

I think most people would be satisfied with an official support of third person just for walking. Nowadays characters models can be switched in an instant. You can see it all the time in games from cutscenes to gameplay without loading. So it's definetly possible to switch character animations to fit third person and first person quickly. They just need to want to do it. Sure it's a lot of work if you want to implement third person for most situations but what frustrate people is not that they can't play in TPP but that they can't play fashion without ruining the flow of gameplay (that's why photo mode is not satisfying enough).

Just a vanity camera for walking and slow run would be enough for a lot of people. And this is totally doable. If you can't fight or have dialogues in cutscenes I don't think a lot of people would mind. It seems to be that the 3rd person debate is mainly about seeing one character. And there are ways to do that without rethinking the entire game. For those who would like to be able to play all in TPP well yeah it's an extremely hard task. And most likely won't happen. But for those who expect less and just want that vanity camera there's not a lot of reasons not to do it imo.

 

[darksharke]

I'm pretty happy using the TPP Third Person mod; it's one of the longest standing most regularly updated mods and works well.. if CDPR never create something better.. that will do me... I would not play the game without it...

 

[chin258456]

@darksharke
Uhm excuse me but, what?

 

[OxSkull101]

@LeKill3rFou

I literally read an article about them changing to unreal5 for the next witcher game because they keep having issues with red engine.
The DLC for cyberpunk will obviously use RedEngine but anything beyond that will be unreal5.

They are basically abandoning RedEngine after the cyberpunk DLC.

Weird reasons?? quite logical ones really.

I wouldnt put too much credit behind anything the say about Cyberpunk considering how botched the launch was and being nothing like they spouted all these years. Dont get me wrong i love the game.

But yeah cool story bro.

 

[Fabios89]

Hello,

I would love to play your game in third person mode. Unfortunately I suffer the motion sickness and the gaming market in general tends to underestimate this problem, not meeting the needs of these players. Will there be a chance to one day see Cyberpunk in third person on console? Many of us want this game in third person, and we can't play in first because of motion sickness. That would be great and I would buy it right away!

 

[LeKill3rFou]

@LeKill3rFou

I literally read an article about them changing to unreal5 for the next witcher game because they keep having issues with red engine.
The DLC for cyberpunk will obviously use RedEngine but anything beyond that will be unreal5.

They are basically abandoning RedEngine after the cyberpunk DLC.

Weird reasons?? quite logical ones really.

I wouldnt put too much credit behind anything the say about Cyberpunk considering how botched the launch was and being nothing like they spouted all these years. Dont get me wrong i love the game.

But yeah cool story bro.

Yes no need to read an article, CDPR clearly announced it
Like here > A New Saga Begins

This is an exciting moment as we’re moving from REDengine to Unreal Engine 5, beginning a multi-year strategic partnership with Epic Games. It covers not only licensing, but technical development of Unreal Engine 5, as well as potential future versions of Unreal Engine, where relevant. We'll closely collaborate with Epic Games’ developers with the primary goal being to help tailor the engine for open-world experiences.
At this point, no further details regarding the game — such as a development time frame or release date — are available.
REDengine, the technology which powers Cyberpunk 2077, is still being used for the development of the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077 expansion.

But the reasons certainly have nothing to do with technical problems to add the third person view... knowing that it was greatly done in TW3.
In my opinion, it would be more than the Red Engine reaching a "limit" and continuing to develop an in-house engine is not really "profitable". Or also the difficulty of implementing multiplayer elements when the Unreal Engine already provides them.
After like I said, you're free to believe what you want (or to not believe CDPR too)

 

[andrewdilley]

@LeKill3rFou

I literally read an article about them changing to unreal5 for the next witcher game because they keep having issues with red engine.
The DLC for cyberpunk will obviously use RedEngine but anything beyond that will be unreal5.

They are basically abandoning RedEngine after the cyberpunk DLC.

Weird reasons?? quite logical ones really.

I wouldnt put too much credit behind anything the say about Cyberpunk considering how botched the launch was and being nothing like they spouted all these years. Dont get me wrong i love the game.

But yeah cool story bro.

Can you link to the article?

 

[AikoHayashi]

Can you link to the article?

Here is an interesting one as it adds some technical explanation https://gamerant.com/cd-projekt-red-explains-using-unreal-engine-5-the-witcher-4/

 

[drona.667]

But the reasons certainly have nothing to do with technical problems to add the third person view... knowing that it was greatly done in TW3.
In my opinion, it would be more than the Red Engine reaching a "limit" and continuing to develop an in-house engine is not really "profitable". Or also the difficulty of implementing multiplayer elements when the Unreal Engine already provides them.
After like I said, you're free to believe what you want (or to not believe CDPR too)

From what I gathered so far, CDPR new plan is they wanna focus on ACTUALLY FULL game development, instead of working parallel building a ground breaking game engine (RED Engine). Turn out, it is simply so much more harder & required massive workforce & time beyond what the company really capable of. Compare this to using UE5, where the game engine basically supported by a whole other company with thousands of people behind. Add to UE5 being one of the main third party engine that very much being learned by most of game/film/animation design academics. It make sense from business standpoint, time management standpoint, long term development standpoint, & artistic focus standpoint.

My speculation here is CDPR wanna make new big AAA games within a much shorter periods (2-3 years), on top of possibly smaller/AA budget games in-between (1-2 years), created by their smaller game dev teams that they acquired.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Here is an interesting one as it adds some technical explanation https://gamerant.com/cd-projekt-red-explains-using-unreal-engine-5-the-witcher-4/

Yeah, but Unreal Engine don't guarantee for sure a "bug free" game (those who played ARK which use Unreal Engine, probably know what I mean^^).
So I suppose the "main" reason, as @drona.667 said, to focus on making game rather than spending bunch of resources in their own engine (which, on a side note, is in its current state, perfectly able to handle a third person view^^)

Just a guess, but I assume that the "next gen" update of TW3 will use Red Engine 4 (to include Ray Tracing), so RE4 is probably not a problem for TPP.

 

[AikoHayashi]

Yeah, but Unreal Engine don't guarantee for sure a "bug free" game (those who played ARK which use Unreal Engine, probably know what I mean^^).
So I suppose the "main" reason, as @drona.667 said, to focus on making game rather than spending bunch of resources in their own engine (which, on a side note, is in its current state, perfectly able to handle a third person view^^)

Just a guess, but I assume that the "next gen" update of TW3 will use Red Engine 4 (to include Ray Tracing), so RE4 is probably not a problem for TPP.

https://starloopstudios.com/unreal-engine-5-features-and-how-it-can-improve-gaming/

 

[LeKill3rFou]

https://starloopstudios.com/unreal-engine-5-features-and-how-it-can-improve-gaming/

Yep, it seem to be a very good engine, but like all "tools" it mainly depend on how you use it
UE4 was a good and solid engine, but WildCard managed to make a game (ARK: Survival Evolved) with even more bugs and issues than Cyberpunk, which still barely run on "old gen" consoles^^

Edit : But to comeback to the subject, if CDPR wanted to implement a third person view in the game, Red Engine would be perfectly able to handle it and CDPR have enough experience to do it very well. But they simply decided that first person would be "better"

 

[CS554]

Because they are not shooters. Max Payne is not shooter game, GTA is not shooter game etc. etc. They are action adventure games with shooting mechanics. How can you speak about Max Payne "dynamic" shooting, when whole concept of this game is focused around slow-mo. GTA's shooting is bad, that's it.

I could also argue that Gears of War games are third person shooters, but they sure as heck aren't fast paced.

Not sure how fun CP 2077 would be from 3rd person with all the movement speed upgrades and buffs enabled with a controller.

 

[northwold]

From what I gathered so far, CDPR new plan is they wanna focus on ACTUALLY FULL game development, instead of working parallel building a ground breaking game engine (RED Engine). Turn out, it is simply so much more harder & required massive workforce & time beyond what the company really capable of. Compare this to using UE5, where the game engine basically supported by a whole other company with thousands of people behind. Add to UE5 being one of the main third party engine that very much being learned by most of game/film/animation design academics. It make sense from business standpoint, time management standpoint, long term development standpoint, & artistic focus standpoint.

My speculation here is CDPR wanna make new big AAA games within a much shorter periods (2-3 years), on top of possibly smaller/AA budget games in-between (1-2 years), created by their smaller game dev teams that they acquired.

They have said that their strategy going forward is to be able to work on two AAA games simultaneously so, yes, a variant of what you're saying.