Camera Stutter Master Thread - Share your info

[Hekkton]

I think there is a misunderstanding in regard to my last posting:

The auto center massively increases the stuttering, but doesn't cause it solely! The origin of the stuttering/fps loss lies behind the game engine and its resources, which overwhelm the hardware somehow no matter how good ones PC is, not to mention the less powerful consoles (I'm on PS4 btw). Noone can deny that the game has been poorly optimized - regardless of the platform.

When it comes to the horse stuttering, that's a whole different story. It has nothing to do with 'real', performance related stuttering. It's rather a faulty animation cycle/loop, affecting the first 3 speed levels of Roach; very slow, slow and walking. The gallop and full gallop aren't affected!

In order to fix this issue, there is no need for a performance optimization (other than the abovementioned camera/auto center stuttering). CDPR only needs to recalibrate the horse animation loop and it will be fixed.

However, deactivating auto center will considerably improve the overall smoothness of the gameplay, as the manual camera movement of the player doesn't have to be permanently corrected by the game engine anymore. There is no doubt that this for itself won't entirely fix the stuttering issue but it will definitely improve the gameplay experience a lot.

I really really hope CDPR notices this thread and takes our advices, because this otherwise wonderful game is on the edge of being unplayable at the moment - and that's a damn tragedy...

 

[outlabin]

I think there is a misunderstanding in regard to my last posting:

The auto center massively increases the stuttering, but doesn't cause it solely! The origin of the stuttering/fps loss lies behind the game engine and its resources, which overwhelm the hardware somehow no matter how good ones PC is, not to mention the less powerful consoles (I'm on PS4 btw). Noone can deny that the game has been poorly optimized - regardless of the platform.

When it comes to the horse stuttering, that's a whole different story. It has nothing to do with 'real', performance related stuttering. It's rather a faulty animation cycle/loop, affecting the first 3 speed levels of Roach; very slow, slow and walking. The gallop and full gallop aren't affected!

In order to fix this issue, there is no need for a performance optimization (other than the abovementioned camera/auto center stuttering). CDPR only needs to recalibrate the horse animation loop and it will be fixed.

However, deactivating auto center will considerably improve the overall smoothness of the gameplay, as the manual camera movement of the player doesn't have to be permanently corrected by the game engine anymore. There is no doubt that this for itself won't entirely fix the stuttering issue but it will definitely improve the gameplay experience a lot.

I really really hope CDPR notices this thread and takes our advices, because this otherwise wonderful game is on the edge of being unplayable at the moment - and that's a damn tragedy...

Agree ...

I think CDPR needed more time on this and released too early yes i know it was delayed allready but i think the team out stretched themselves re work over all platforms ..

Fingers crossed for 1.05

 

[Michael_Maximilian]

Agree ...

I think CDPR needed more time on this and released too early yes i know it was delayed allready but i think the team out stretched themselves re work over all platforms ..

Fingers crossed for 1.05

And the fact this is their first open world game. I agree it released too early, it needed another year in development.

 

[leroy291985]

Thing is don't cdpr publish there own games?

 

[RenegadeCrumble]

Thing is don't cdpr publish there own games?

I had a look.
All of the publishers of The Witcher 3:
[SUP]POL[/SUP] cdp.pl
[SUP]PAL[/SUP] Bandai Namco
[SUP]CIS[/SUP] 1C Company
[SUP]NA[/SUP] WB Games
[SUP]JP[/SUP] Spike Chunsoft
[SUP]SA[/SUP] Megarom Interactive

 

[leroy291985]

Oh yeah should of realised when I seen wb logo, I thought because they're there own publishers that was how they released free dlc, maybe not

 

[GeehWiz]

Oh yeah should of realised when I seen wb logo, I thought because they're there own publishers that was how they released free dlc, maybe not

That WB logo is almost always tied to buggy games lol,i'm counting on it with Batman Arkham Knight(which was part of my GTX 970 package.

 

[mg47]

I also experience some strange stuttering if I lock FPS on 60 or unlimited even in V1.04, but my average FPS is around 45~50,quite steady, however, there is no stuttering if I lock on 30 FPS.

My specs
I5-3470
GTX970
8GB ram
Win7-x64

 

[TheHBK]

Stuttering is unavoidable with VSynced 40-ish fps on a 60hz display.

Even into the 50-ish you'll have uneven frame pacing (but it'll be less noticeable the higher you go), and it'll be even worse if the game engine does not manage properly the triple buffering (rendering of frames ahead), something the RED engine is well known to do (or not do, for instance).

Either enforce a double buffering (which should mostly give you 30 frames per second) or disable VSync (which will give you constant tearing) to help with that.

40-ish, or even 50-ish for that matter, will ALWAYS stutter (unless you have dynamic refresh displays such as GSync ones). But some engines will manage it better than others. The engines used in TW2 and TW3 are noticeably bad at this.

 

[GeehWiz]

Stuttering is unavoidable with VSynced 40-ish fps on a 60hz display.

Even into the 50-ish you'll have uneven frame pacing (but it'll be less noticeable the higher you go), and it'll be even worse if the game engine does not manage properly the triple buffering (rendering of frames ahead), something the RED engine is well known to do (or not do, for instance).

Either enforce a double buffering (which should mostly give you 30 frames per second) or disable VSync (which will give you constant tearing) to help with that.

40-ish, or even 50-ish for that matter, will ALWAYS stutter (unless you have dynamic refresh displays such as GSync ones). But some engines will manage it better than others. The engines used in TW2 and TW3 are noticeably bad at this.

I'm also done explaining how your basis knowledge is not applicable here.
read all posts.

 

[TheHBK]

It's entirely applicable. Because that how rasterization works, back buffer, waiting for VBlank and all that.

That being said it's entirely possible that there are specific screw-ups that would cause stuttering even when running at clean 60 (i.e all frames being rendered in less than 16.67ms).

There might be issues with the animation system. There might be issues with camera management. But even if all of those were perfect and frame hit prediction was done properly, having an average of 50 frames per second running VSynced on a 60hz display will produce 10 duplicate frames every second. That is a lot. And that will always produce some form of motion judder.

 

[Joolsy83]

He is right, games will judder and feel far less smooth if the game drops below your refresh rate on a regular basis, this is common knowledge mind. But, the camera panning stutter happens regardless of what frame rate I'm on, and that's with Gsync too. 60 fps with perfect frame times of 16.67 ms via RTTS and the panning stutter is still present with a control pad.

 

[TheHBK]

Yeah it would seem there are multiple issues with the game other than pure frame rendering. Janky camera movement being one of them.

That being said, you'll still get motion judder if you're not properly synced with the display refresh. Nothing the devs can do about that. No matter how hard they try.

 

[Dancuka]

Yeah it would seem there are multiple issues with the game other than pure frame rendering. Janky camera movement being one of them.

That being said, you'll still get motion judder if you're not properly synced with the display refresh. Nothing the devs can do about that. No matter how hard they try.

Yes, and that's why devs lock games to 30fps if it cant hit 60. Thats why we have the slider to lock it at 30 also, and I'm glad its there. It's just how our display-tech works atm. This stutter doesn't happen at 30fps cus its synced properly. For example The Order 1886 has the best 30fps smoothness I have ever seen with proper motionblur, and honestly I'd rather play a game at solid smooth 30 that something going between 30-60. Sometimes I wish I wouldn't be so sensitive about the stutter and have bliss in ingnorance if i see a game drop even 1-2 frames from 60 I instantly notice it ... it sucks. The camera-judder that we (or at least me) are here bitching about isn't about this tho and it's clearly something within the engine/system they use for camera movement with controller. Man I hope they release a patch today so weekend we could game problem free :/

 

[GeehWiz]

Yeah it would seem there are multiple issues with the game other than pure frame rendering. Janky camera movement being one of them.

That being said, you'll still get motion judder if you're not properly synced with the display refresh. Nothing the devs can do about that. No matter how hard they try.

So you're telling me playing a game with 30FPS on a 60Hz display automatically means the game will judder?no
lol,the only thing you'll notice is a less smooth picture,not this what I and many others are experiencing.

If anything 30FPS on a console is smoother looking than that same frame rate on PC.This what many are experiencing regarding the camera
and horse are not the same as the frame-rate irregularities.In fact i could fix that issue if it would be out of sync.

What many are talking about is not even related to a locked frame rate,mark my words when they'll lock the FR on consoles lol.

 

[mg47]

Nice discussion, I understand it'll always suffer a little judder if the Vsync FPS is lower than the monitor's refresh rate, but I've played plenty of games which actual FPS is lower than my refresh rate(60hz), and yet they don't have noticeable stutter like I see in W3, so I guess the root of this issue may rely on the display driver or the game engine(especially the Vsync function) itself. This is just my 2 cents.

BTW, I saw some folks use Rivatuner Statistics Server to replace the native Vsync of W3 and erase the stutter successfully, I haven't tried it myself though.

 

[GObonzo]

only when i first load save. the very first time i spin the camera it stutters a couple times through 1 or 2 seconds and then it's totally free. i imagine that is just a quick load of textures and other data.

don't know what would be causing worse issues for some that many others don't experience. this seems to mostly be console users commenting here but i see some from PC.
most seem to be reporting Nvidia cards here and adequate systems. but consoles being AMD should show it's not a specific GPU or GPU driver issue. has to be random code bug. reinstalling should then fix it but many claiming that doesn't help.

f*cked up CDPR seems to be ignoring this issue for now.

someone mentioned it happening when using a gamepad. can any PC users verify this happens while using key\mouse?

 

[TheHBK]

So you're telling me playing a game with 30FPS on a 60Hz display automatically means the game will judder?

Because that's not what I'm saying ?

If your dupes are evenly paced you won't have judder with a nice 30 frames per second (VSynced on a 60 hz display). If the engine does its job properly that is.

Oh and I was just responding to pepole experiencing judder with "45-50 fps". This, unfortunately, is not something you can blame the devs of.

---------- Updated at 12:52 PM ----------

Nice discussion, I understand it'll always suffer a little judder if the Vsync FPS is lower than the monitor's refresh rate, but I've played plenty of games which actual FPS is lower than my refresh rate(60hz), and yet they don't have noticeable stutter like I see in W3, so I guess the root of this issue may rely on the display driver or the game engine(especially the Vsync function) itself. This is just my 2 cents.

Yes it would seem the engine does a bad job at predicting frame hit times, thus accentuating the judder.

But even if it was doing its job properly, you'd still get judder under 60 fps (unless it's a nice divider like 30 or 20) due to the uneven distribution of dupes. But it would be less noticeable, yes.

 

[GeehWiz]

Because that's not what I'm saying ?

If your dupes are evenly paced you won't have judder with a nice 30 frames per second (VSynced on a 60 hz display). If the engine does its job properly that is.

Oh and I was just responding to pepole experiencing judder with "45-50 fps". This, unfortunately, is not something you can blame the devs of.

---------- Updated at 12:52 PM ----------


Yes it would seem the engine does a bad job at predicting frame hit times, thus accentuating the judder.

But even if it was doing its job properly, you'd still get judder under 60 fps (unless it's a nice divider like 30 or 20) due to the uneven distribution of dupes. But it would be less noticeable, yes.

You can blame them for not fixing that engine though.i mean me not hitting certain frame rates i can live with,this however i have never experienced before.

 

[leroy291985]

Yeah it would seem there are multiple issues with the game other than pure frame rendering. Janky camera movement being one of them.

That being said, you'll still get motion judder if you're not properly synced with the display refresh. Nothing the devs can do about that. No matter how hard they try.

well that weird because i have a cheap 60hz tv and console games play at 30 and many of them are smooth as silk and im very sensitive to any stutter, this is the only one with this problem