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can anyone explain duny to me? [book spoilers]

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algroshaw

Rookie
#1
May 30, 2015
can anyone explain duny to me? [book spoilers]

I don't get it. I'm reaing LoTL and it is explaining duny but I am not following.

What was his plan from the start? he said he never loved Ciri's mom, so
a) why did he tie his fate to her
b) how did he find out this whole ciri stuff.

I know that he organized a coup of nilfgaard with vilgifortz, but how does a monster (nobody) manage to overthrow one of the most powerful nations?

can someone just explain his motives from the start to the wanting to impregnate his daughter, and how he became king?
 
R

Ravici

Rookie
#2
May 30, 2015
I so thought this was going to be an Aussie toilet *sigh*
 
R

randyrhoads

Rookie
#3
May 30, 2015
algroshaw said:
I know that he organized a coup of nilfgaard with vilgifortz, but how does a monster (nobody) manage to overthrow one of the most powerful nations?

can someone just explain his motives from the start to the wanting to impregnate his daughter, and how he became king?
Click to expand...
He was a legitimate hеir who was cursed.

He wanted Ciri's kid because of the prophecy that her son would rule half the world.
 
A

algroshaw

Rookie
#4
May 30, 2015
randyrhoads said:
He was a legitimate hеir who was cursed.

He wanted Ciri's kid because of the prophecy that her son would rule half the world.
Click to expand...
Oh. the prophecy included her mom? I thought it was more ambiguous. Ie. the son of the elder blood woman will rule the world. not that paveta would have the child of elder blood, who's son would rule the world.

If that is the case, why did he want paveta. why not just take her daughter. at least then, his grandson would not possibly be an inbred simpleton
 
A

Arkray_gog

Forum veteran
#5
May 30, 2015
Genetic my friend, Pavetta came from a lineage that had united the most of elder blood, that plus Duny's = Ciri

Remember that Pavetta was very powerlful too.
 
D

DukeAlmighty

Senior user
#6
May 30, 2015
a) From where did you get that he didn't love Ciri's mom aka Pavetta ?
b) He probably found out about Child of Elder Blood from Nilfgaard mages who were investigating it, don't remember who .. (Francesca Finderbar?)

How exactly he organized coup in Nilfgaard to regain power is not explained afaik, but don't mix it with Thaned coup with Vilgelfortz.
Goal of Thaned coup was to weaken North mages, so they won't be able to help defend North against 2nd Invasion.
As you know at 1st War Nilfgaard got their asses kicked on Sodden hill thanks to North mages (Triss, Yen, Phillipa, etc)
 
J

jockmick

Rookie
#7
May 30, 2015
algroshaw said:
I don't get it. I'm reaing LoTL and it is explaining duny but I am not following.

What was his plan from the start? he said he never loved Ciri's mom, so
a) why did he tie his fate to her
b) how did he find out this whole ciri stuff.

I know that he organized a coup of nilfgaard with vilgifortz, but how does a monster (nobody) manage to overthrow one of the most powerful nations?

can someone just explain his motives from the start to the wanting to impregnate his daughter, and how he became king?
Click to expand...
Duny is Emhyr, rightful heir to the Empire of Nilfgaard. His father was usurped and Emhyr was cursed. Emhyr(Duny) meets Pavetta. Geralt frees Emhyr from the curse and for his reward Geralts invokes the law of surprise, which turned out to be Pavetta and Duny's unborn child, Ciri. Duny and Vilgefortz collaborate and the ship Duny and Pavetta was on is magically transported to Vilgefortz' castle. Pavetta falls overboard and dies. Duny goes back to Nilfgaard and takes back his rightful position as emperor.

Both Emhyr and Vilgefortz wanted to use Ciri for their own agendas. Vilgefortz wanted the power from the Elder Blood to control the worlds, and Emhyr just wanted a powerful heir, which the child of Ciri would become according to the prophecies.
 
A

algroshaw

Rookie
#8
May 30, 2015
Arkray_gog said:
Genetic my friend, Pavetta came from a lineage that had united the most of elder blood, that plus Duny's = Ciri

Remember that Pavetta was very powerlful too.
Click to expand...
ahhhhhhhhh...

so why does he want to boink his daughter? why not just force her to bed some other king and then keep the son for himself? the prophecy does not state theson has to have nilfgaardian royal blood, or royal bloodat all does it? she simply needs a child- as vilgifortz was going to give her.

I don't like this guy and I don't like that geralt searches for ciri on his orders in tw3. I would liike to slit his throat instead.
 
J

jockmick

Rookie
#9
May 30, 2015
DukeAlmighty said:
a) From where did you get that he didn't love Ciri's mom aka Pavetta ?
Click to expand...
Emhyr tells this to Geralt in Lady of the Lake.
 
A

Arkray_gog

Forum veteran
#10
May 30, 2015
LOL! I also hate him, I was sad that I could not tell him more threatening lines in prologue.

Just do the math, if his daughter was that powerful by uniting his blood and pavetta's imagine what would happen if you mix that result with one of the 'sources'? More power.... and INCEST
 
J

Jedi2016

Rookie
#11
May 30, 2015
I've taken it that his involvement with Pavetta was just something that happened, I don't think it was part of any grand, far-reaching plan beyond his grasping at straws to do something, anything, to get his curse lifted (he couldn't even dream of going back to Nilfgaard as he was).
 
A

algroshaw

Rookie
#12
May 30, 2015
Arkray_gog said:
LOL! I also hate him, I was sad that I could not tell him more threatening lines in prologue.
Click to expand...
it is a writing flaw, really. i should be able to tell him very cruel and indecent things. lol

I also hope that, the vampire regis, being old and seemingly enhanced, managed to survive and is in tw3. hes my favourite character of the series. They kill all the good ones.
 
Last edited: May 30, 2015
A

Arkray_gog

Forum veteran
#13
May 30, 2015
They didn't allow because of ppl who has not read the books, I ahd liked a 'Hi Duny, so long (and f* you)' line, but then they would be confused... The only thing I was able to do was refuse to bow.... which I did.

I got Regis card, but I'm still hunting for Cahir's one, he was my fav, after Ger & Ciri.
 
Last edited: May 30, 2015
A

algroshaw

Rookie
#14
May 30, 2015
Arkray_gog said:
They didn't allow because of ppl who has not read the books, I ahd liked a 'Hi Duny, so long (and f* you)' line, but then they would be confused... The only thing I was able to do was refuse to bow.... which I did.

I got Regis card, but I'm still hunting for Cahir's one, he was my fav, after Ger & Ciri.
Click to expand...
I disagree- they do it all the time. the unicorn sex line, the countless references in tw2- they certainly referenced the book- they just explained the confusion with either anmesia or "oh, you the player, don't know geralt's past"
 
A

Arkray_gog

Forum veteran
#15
May 30, 2015
The unicorn line had an explanation from Geralt to Vesemir... This Duny thing may be too much, here Emhyr is just Ciri's father and the Emperor, no metion to what his intentions were in the books, or I haven't seen any so far.... sadly
 
K

Kad_Venku

Senior user
#16
May 30, 2015
Just so all of you are warned once again: this will be a massive book spoiler, thus I spoiler-tagged it despide bing in a topic marked with spoiler already.
Parts of it are taken directly from the wiki, some things are added by me.
And I assume you read through the thread, because I won't repeat all of what was already said

Duny, also known as Jez and also Urcheon of Erlenwald, was an alias used by Emhyr var Emreis, the Emperor of Nilfgaard and the husband of Pavetta and the father of Ciri.
He also claimed to be the illegitimate son of king Akerspaark of Maecht whilst using this disguise.
He was featured in the short story "A Question of Price", in The Last Wish collection and mentioned in Times of Contempt, Baptism of Fire and The Lady of the Lake.
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with Geralt and Ciri though?
Well, this:
When Geralt first met Duny, he claimed to have been cursed since birth, never knowning the reason for it, nor who had cast the spell. From midnight to dawn, he was a normal man, but from dawn, he turned into a creature with a bristly muzzle which resembled something like a cross between a hedgehog and a boar. As the people in Maecht were very superstitious, his father wanted to hide him because spells and curses known to afflict the royal family could prove fatal for the dynasty. One of the king's knights took Duny away from the court and brought him up as his own, wandering the world until the knight died, leaving the young man alone in the world.

He had been told that a child of destiny could free him from the curse. One day he found King Roegner of Cintra wounded in a ravine and as a reward, King Roegner promised him "whatever he had left at home without knowing or expecting it"
[Which is also called the Law of Surprise, usually envoced by witchers to get new recruits, children bound in such a way by destiny seem to have a higher chance to survive the trial of grasses, sources on this vary though. Geralt himself doubts this. Added by Kad]
in effect creating the perfect conditions for this child of destiny.
Click to expand...
At this point I personally doubt Sapkowski had the whole Witcher Saga in mind and the whole Emhir=Duny thing came up way later down the road. At this point this was just another short story without greater aim.

Although princess Pavetta was to be wed when she was fifteen years old, Duny visited her one year before, and they secretly fell in love. When the following year, the queen gave a party for Pavetta's birthday, he appeared at the feast and announced that from her birth, the princess had belonged to him, and that he had now come for her.

After Pavetta confirmed her wish to be with him, an uproar erupted. In the ensuing fight, Geralt saved Duny's life, and later, because of this Duny promised to give up his own child to be trained as a witcher.
Click to expand...
[Geralt at that point really did not want to envoce the Law of Surprise, he even warns Duny several times before he finally spits it out. Added by Kad]

When the fight was over, and the mood had calmed down, queen Calanthe gave in and agreed to their wedding. When the sun rose, and Duny did not transform into a beast, and so he knew that the curse had been lifted. After thanking Geralt, he and his future wife were surprised with the news that Pavetta was pregnant, and Duny was soon to be a father.

When the child was born, they named her Cirilla.
Click to expand...
This is where it gets strange, probably because Sapkowski made this up during writing the last books:

To make it short. Geralt returned some years later and could have taken the six year old Ciri with him. He didn't, which made the bond the two share even stronger.
When Ciri was around four or five years. Duny/Emhyr planned to return to Nilfgaard, he used Vilgerfortz' help and teleportation magic for that, but hadn't thought about Ciri's strong will. She ran away before the journey strated and Duny noticed too late to delay the magic departure.
Emhyr back in Nilfgaard, with a dead Pavetta who didn't survive the journey, overthrows the non legimit current ruler of Nilfgaard who in turn had overthrown Emhyr's father beforehand and banned Emhyr in the first place.
(According to him with some loyal henchmen who also helped him flee from the ursurpers men)

Some time before dueing his early exile, he "made the plan" getting married with Pavetta to use the power of her family's blood - which honestly does not make too much sense in the books as well - he must have heard about the the prophecy concerning the power of the Elder Blood during his exile.
According to this, if he managed to marry Pavetta, his grandson would rule over the whole world (that's overly simplified, but details on that are already provided by others in this topic.)

So he bound himself to Pavetta to get rid of the curse and in possession of the Elder Blood.
Where he heard about the prophecy - maybe Melitele knows - he never gets too specific on that.
None of this is provided with too much detail in the books, probably because otherwise some inconsistecies would have appeared, that would not have been fixable.
 
Last edited: May 31, 2015
A

algroshaw

Rookie
#17
May 30, 2015
Arkray_gog said:
The unicorn line had an explanation from Geralt to Vesemir... This Duny thing may be too much, here Emhyr is just Ciri's father and the Emperor, no metion to what his intentions were in the books, or I haven't seen any so far.... sadly
Click to expand...
I'd just assume that duny was a nickname, or geralt was calling him an outhouse or something. lol

It could be phrased something like "**** you, emhyr" (with emhyr being heavily articulated as if to say emhyr is not his real name- a duny reference)
 
J

jockmick

Rookie
#18
May 30, 2015
Kad_Venku said:
Just so all of you are warned once again: this will be a massive book spoiler, thus I spoiler-tagged it despide bing in a topic marked with spoiler already.
Parts of it are taken directly from the wiki, some things are added by me.
And I assume you read through the thread, because I won't repeat all of what was already said
Click to expand...
Good post, but you got one thing wrong. I put it in the spoiler:

When Ciri was around ten years. Duny/Emhyr planned to return to Nilfgaard, he used Vilgerfortz' help and teleportation magic for that, but hadn't thought about Ciri's strong will. She ran away before the journey strated and Duny noticed too late to delay the magic departure.

She was much, much younger. She has no memory at all of her father and practically nothing of her mother as well. She tells this to Yennefer in Blood of Elves. Her parents were already dead when Geralt went to collect her in Cintra when she was six.
 
A

algroshaw

Rookie
#19
May 30, 2015
it infuriates me that yen brought her to the lodge and ciri just goes along with anything (submitting to the lodge, undressing for the elf, having sex with the dying soldier..)

I wish she'd just kill every one of those absent minded, arrogant, entitled and egotistical witches.
 
Last edited: May 30, 2015
K

Kad_Venku

Senior user
#20
May 31, 2015
jockmick said:
Good post, but you got one thing wrong. I put it in the spoiler
Click to expand...
Thanks for pointing that out. Corrected it in the original post.
 
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