Can they really implement a good AI on enemies and good behaviour on citizens?

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I'm wondering if they can really implement something in the citizens that makes them more alive. I know games like RDR2 had routines in their NPC's, but they were much more less than in CP77 because you were visiting a town or a village. Night City has a lot of space for having infinite more NPC's than RDR2 and translating that system into the game could be a nightmare. I know that having this huge city filled with random people it's a mess for that because you could start following anyone and you could suspect with not much time if it's acts are natural or a poor script. Obviously putting them individual lines of dialogues would be a colosal task so what can be done in this aspect?


One thing I've read that could be good for NPC's dialogues are just programming them lines of dialogue based on reactions of your character actions and how it looks maybe. Now they have a very poor system in which they only react when you push them dodging and they just scare the hell out, the one implied and the whole street. So I know it's a hard task involved to make really citizens have their little brains.
 

Icinix

Forum veteran
From where it is now which seems to be effectively a spawn system with a few rules, I don't think so.

Crowd is filler, gang and police work is pre-generated before you arrive at locations.

I don't think the crowd / police / trauma / gangs were ever built in the game to be re-active or include AI.

In short - they can't be fixed as such - they'd need to be built.
 
Enemy AI is actually pretty good, but few people are noticing it because everyone is going God mode super 1 hitter quiter so everything is dead before it has time to react.
 
I'm wondering if they can really implement something in the citizens that makes them more alive. I know games like RDR2 had routines in their NPC's, but they were much more less than in CP77 because you were visiting a town or a village. Night City has a lot of space for having infinite more NPC's than RDR2 and translating that system into the game could be a nightmare. I know that having this huge city filled with random people it's a mess for that because you could start following anyone and you could suspect with not much time if it's acts are natural or a poor script. Obviously putting them individual lines of dialogues would be a colosal task so what can be done in this aspect?


One thing I've read that could be good for NPC's dialogues are just programming them lines of dialogue based on reactions of your character actions and how it looks maybe. Now they have a very poor system in which they only react when you push them dodging and they just scare the hell out, the one implied and the whole street. So I know it's a hard task involved to make really citizens have their little brains.
Would not count on it exactly. They have to perform a miracle to basically fix this within 2-3 months.
 
Would not count on it exactly. They have to perform a miracle to basically fix this within 2-3 months.

It's what I suspect. The fact that there's not even police cars roaming, no police station, no fire station, Trauma Team only exists in missions and don't assist people in the streets. Everything is generated in front of you and the gangs you can encounter in the streets are always stuck in the same alleys. I think it's reestructurate everything from scratch or having nothing.

But this is a big lie of what they showcased of an intelligent city.
 
It's what I suspect. The fact that there's not even police cars roaming, no police station, no fire station, Trauma Team only exists in missions and don't assist people in the streets. Everything is generated in front of you and the gangs you can encounter in the streets are always stuck in the same alleys. I think it's reestructurate everything from scratch or having nothing.

But this is a big lie of what they showcased of an intelligent city.

Nailed it. Sadly.
 
It's what I suspect. The fact that there's not even police cars roaming, no police station, no fire station, Trauma Team only exists in missions and don't assist people in the streets. Everything is generated in front of you and the gangs you can encounter in the streets are always stuck in the same alleys. I think it's reestructurate everything from scratch or having nothing.

But this is a big lie of what they showcased of an intelligent city.
Would not count on it exactly. They have to perform a miracle to basically fix this within 2-3 months.
If it was something that wasn't in the game sure, but honestly all of these AI/spawn issues just seem like they have been disabled, or toned down to the most basic of ability, likely in hopes of getting the game to run on consoles. And even with all these things disabled the console version still ran/runs like shit. So hopefully once they get the consoles issues ironed out maybe they re enable some of these features🤷‍♂️
 
Enemy AI is actually pretty good, but few people are noticing it because everyone is going God mode super 1 hitter quiter so everything is dead before it has time to react.

I finished it on hard, how people play with their V doesn't excuse that it's indeed a poor AI system. You just gotta be careful of enemy snipers and netrunners. Sometimes enemies can be pushy and agressive, sometimes they're just running for cover and taking so much time attacking. NCPD AI is also bad, but has pin point accuracy, which may help normal enemies and difficulty.
 
They could boost the A.I. levels a bit, but you have to remember this is an RPG at the Core (XP, Loot, Dialogue/Choices, etc) with Shooter Mechanics. Think of games like The Division 1 & 2. The A.I. is quite similar, less RPG as it really only uses the "Looting" rule sets and focuses more towards the Shooter Mechanics. So the A.I. is designed to be Bullet Sponges to compensate for the 75 IQ.

So if you enhance the A.I. you make them deadlier and smarter, so to compensate they would need to recode the system for them to be either...

- Harder to Kill w/ More XP, but less enemies (slower level progression)
- Deadlier Accuracy, More Tactical/Seeking, Easier To Kill, +/- 20% (possible equal progression rate, on average for most gamers it would be slower as now they have to take more time to play smarter).

So again, we are dealing with Bullet Sponge Enemies, so unless you are playing full stealth with headshots only the entire game (like me @ over 135hrs currently on first play through doing everything and neutralizing every enemy without a single Combat Alert).
 
If it was something that wasn't in the game sure, but honestly all of these AI/spawn issues just seem like they have been disabled, or toned down to the most basic of ability, likely in hopes of getting the game to run on consoles. And even with all these things disabled the console version still ran/runs like shit. So hopefully once they get the consoles issues ironed out maybe they re enable some of these features🤷‍♂️

Indeed. Skyrim started out the same way, with NPC's walking in to walls and getting stuck, talking to invisible characters, dragons flying backwards, skills that had no effect, no dragon items, arrows that vanished mid-shot and a whole plethora of other major problems in the first 3 months.

Pretty much most people now consider it one of the best games to play in the genre. All it needed was some time, effort and commitment from the devs to make it what they intended from the start.
 
Yes, they can, it's not an impossible task, other games are able to do it too.
 
Unless they already had some work done on it and had to cut it to meet the deadline (delayed till eventual re-implementation after extensive testing), definitely not in the next 5-6 months. It's basically building a new traffic system almost from scratch and fine tuning it to level design and quests.

And beyond that if people want more varied reactions from pedestrians both verbal and physical, it's a daunting task that might take another year if not more.
 
More varied reactions from pedestrians, yes, that's something that needs to be built. Changing their behaviour so they won't just walk up and down for a few meters is definitely something that can be fixed.
In general, this game needed and still needs more development time, because it's half-done.
In the long term anything can be fixed, even optimisation. The game brought back development costs last year, now it makes profit for them.
 
I think they can and they will do it. But I don't expect a great AI in this kind of games. Maybe a little more reactive than what we have now, but I don't think they are so bad when they try to kill me with grenades, smart guns or cyber attacks.
AI should only be more "aggressive" and reactive to what happens in the zone.

But I say that the best AI I've seen so far is that of the first F.E.A.R.. It was incredible at that time and I think I've never played against enemies so hard to beat (no bullet-sponges or souls-like enemies, just smart and coordinated).
 
I finished it on hard, how people play with their V doesn't excuse that it's indeed a poor AI system. You just gotta be careful of enemy snipers and netrunners. Sometimes enemies can be pushy and agressive, sometimes they're just running for cover and taking so much time attacking. NCPD AI is also bad, but has pin point accuracy, which may help normal enemies and difficulty.
It is a perfect excuse. If players are running God characters and they're wiping everything standing in the blink of an eye, regardless of difficulty setting, then how exactly is the AI supposed to react?

Seriously I don't know why some players expected CDPR to revolutionize enemy AI? Is that another bit of hype acyoutuber claimed and fans pinned on cdpr with 0 confirmation? The enemies act/react in this game no different than 99% of other games🤷‍♂️

Police AI... different story.
 
Enemy AI is actually pretty good, but few people are noticing it because everyone is going God mode super 1 hitter quiter so everything is dead before it has time to react.
Enemy AI is good? You must be playing the 2018 version they flaked on. Enemies like every thing else in this game is on rails. There programmed to do 1 thing. Either run straight at you like a bull or hide behind cover until you break line of sight. No flanking no tactics. I think the AI in this game is beyond saving with patches. Ive walked up to enemies during combat still hiding behind cover shouting nonsense and they literally didn't break a stride whatsoever. Increased difficulty just tu
Enemy AI is actually pretty good, but few people are noticing it because everyone is going God mode super 1 hitter quiter so everything is dead before it has time to react.
Huh? You must be playing the 2018 version we were lie
Enemy AI is actually pretty good, but few people are noticing it because everyone is going God mode super 1 hitter quiter so everything is dead before it has time to react.
Huh? You must be playing the 2018 fantasy version the marketed to us. Every single aspect of AI in this game is on rails even while in full blown combat enemies have 1 program. Increasing difficulty is just damage scaling like its 2001. The AI is beyond saving through patches. KEEANU is obviously where the budget went for AI development as well as pretty much everything else involving this game besides the art team.
 
I don't think they can make it in 1-2 month, I was not expecting something has perfect has GTA 5 but clearly nothing happen in that city, where are the cops chasing someone or the trauma unit rushing to help someone.
Maybe they don't need AI for every citizen in that city but priority should be fix enemy AI and make random encounter/more content for the open world..
 
Enemy AI is good? You must be playing the 2018 version they flaked on. Enemies like every thing else in this game is on rails. There programmed to do 1 thing. Either run straight at you like a bull or hide behind cover until you break line of sight. No flanking no tactics. I think the AI in this game is beyond saving with patches. Ive walked up to enemies during combat still hiding behind cover shouting nonsense and they literally didn't break a stride whatsoever. Increased difficulty just tu

Huh? You must be playing the 2018 version we were lie

Huh? You must be playing the 2018 fantasy version the marketed to us. Every single aspect of AI in this game is on rails even while in full blown combat enemies have 1 program. Increasing difficulty is just damage scaling like its 2001. The AI is beyond saving through patches. KEEANU is obviously where the budget went for AI development as well as pretty much everything else involving this game besides the art team.
No I'm playing the current version minus the hyperbole and emotinal stress of cut promised features. I'm also not playing in God mode so fights tend to last longer than 2 seconds.

1. Enemies take cover and change cover.

2. Enemies heal themselves.

3. Sometimes enemies rush, usually melee enemies other times is because the enviroment is more open, so nowhere really to take cover.

4. Netrunner enemies hide and upload hacks.

5. Enemies do flank, they also throw grenades to flush me out.

6. Stealth related enemies will search the player out.

7. Badly hurt enemies will step out of cover and resort to a final last attempt stand and proceed to shoot haphazardly at the player with one arm.

8. Elemental affected enemies will react accordingly, though, I've only noticed chemically affected enemies hunching over and vomiting.

9. Armed enemies will melee you when close enough either from them or the player rushing one another.

Again, this is neither great or bad but it's in line with virtually every other game in the last 20+ years.
 
I don't think enemies are that bad, definitely they are on rails but that thing didn't bother me much. I knew that this game had planned the enemies were bullet sponges but the fact I played with a skill that highlights everyone even under their covers, and I had a revolver that practically erases everyone from a single headshot, waiting a siluette to just go uncover and matches my crosshair in difficult mode isn't what I believed to be "difficult". But again, I didn't expect all enemies to be like the strongest of the cops or the cyberpsychos doing teleports all the time

Edit: Did I talk of the tech snipers that can hit across several walls?
 
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