Can we finally make Endrega Larva less broken?

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"Endrega Larva" should absolutely cost 6 Provisions. This card is truly insane, at least on the same level as "An Craite Greatsword" or "Kerack Frigate" with its sheer point output and ability to absorb a lot of damage, and it's actually far stronger than most of the other units that cost 6-Provisions. Now that the Monster faction is finally competitive, can we finally attempt to balance this incredibly broken Bronze card?
 
I think its ok.

They usually goes to 5 points each one (thats 10)

But maybe it can take one of the armor off.

Also, they indeed are really strong in long rounds, but in short rounds this card its kind of broken
 
"Endrega Larva" should absolutely cost 6 Provisions. This card is truly insane, at least on the same level as "An Craite Greatsword" or "Kerack Frigate" with its sheer point output and ability to absorb a lot of damage, and it's actually far stronger than most of the other units that cost 6-Provisions. Now that the Monster faction is finally competitive, can we finally attempt to balance this incredibly broken Bronze card?

I think the comparison with Frigate and Greatsword are absolutely fair, so the argument to make Endrega cost 6 provisions seems reasonable to me.
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
1st Try - Endrega Larvae Deck (2).jpg


Hmm i dont know, if larvae was "6provision good" you would see more players like me, using endrega larvae decks with offerings and necromancy to revive those beautiful larvae and play them 5/6 times a match instead of 2... :shrug:

On a more serious note: you can compare the larvae to the other amazing bronzes (NR frigates and SK GSs), but not in a vacuum, you need context.
And NR and SK have other great bronzes to support their decks and are on top, while MO is being carried by endrega larvae and its at the middle of the pack in the meta, if you nerf them, you can push the faction to the bottom.
 
Larva are easy to kill and/or shutdown, especially nowdays that bronzes can dish out 3dmg and some of them like NG infiltrator can kill both of them at the same time.
Also... unlike the frigates you cannot boost em (makes no sense to boost a thrive unit) to save em or tutor and boost em at the same time like NR.

Just because they are good, it doesn't mean you have to nerf em,
When I use only one pair they rarely survive and don't tell me that people don't target them cause of armor cause they do... non stop !
Most of the time imo they take the heat for other units, I personally use-view em as baits... :)
 
I believe they are doing very well, they are good but they need time to function, and factions like SK, NG and SY usually have no problem with them, increasing the provisions to 6 seems like a little nerf, but I believe it would kill the card.
 
At 6 Provision cost I highly doubt it would see much play anymore people would just switch to the good old Nekkers again and it's also heavily vulnerable to NG's Mage Infiltrator if you can't play around it with a stratagem or a Gerni Fruit (other Factions can just use Sandstorm for 5 provisions instead if they should consider Larva that much of a problem)
 
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At 6 Provision cost I highly doubt it would see much play anymore people would just switch to the good old Nekkers again and it's also heavily vulnerable to NG's Mage Infiltrator if you can't play around it with a stratagem or a Gerni Fruit (other Factions can just use Sandstorm for 5 provisions instead if they should consider Larva that much of a problem)
Yes and than ppl Will ask to nerf nekkers to 5 provision
 
Larva are easy to kill and/or shutdown, especially nowdays that bronzes can dish out 3dmg and some of them like NG infiltrator can kill both of them at the same time.
Also... unlike the frigates you cannot boost em (makes no sense to boost a thrive unit) to save em or tutor and boost em at the same time like NR.

Just because they are good, it doesn't mean you have to nerf em,
When I use only one pair they rarely survive and don't tell me that people don't target them cause of armor cause they do... non stop !
Most of the time imo they take the heat for other units, I personally use-view em as baits... :)
Larva are still far harder to kill than every other 6-Provision unit; most of them have only 4 strength on 1 body. Producing 2 heavily armored units makes the Larva very durable. Plus, even if they are instantly removed, they still played for 6 points. If a Greatswords/Frigate are instantly removed, they only played for 4+/5 points. What's not okay is that Endrega Larva is basically the only 5-Provision unit that almost always play for 10+ points; that's double its provision cost.
 
Larva are still far harder to kill than every other 6-Provision unit; most of them have only 4 strength on 1 body. Producing 2 heavily armored units makes the Larva very durable. Plus, even if they are instantly removed, they still played for 6 points. If a Greatswords/Frigate are instantly removed, they only played for 4+/5 points. What's not okay is that Endrega Larva is basically the only 5-Provision unit that almost always play for 10+ points; that's double its provision cost.
5 provisions cards are supposed to play for 7+ points, if they play for 6 or less, even if immediately the card is very likely garbage.
Larvae still needs time to grow, Frigate is 4+2*turns, while Larvae is 2+2*turns.
I am not saying that Larvae is not very strong for being a 5p card, however stating it is stronger than Frigate is definitely very wrong, especially considering the support Frigate has (AA, Adalia, boosts in general (which are actually negative on Larvae) etc), while Larvae does not really have such support for itself.
 
Larva are still far harder to kill than every other 6-Provision unit; most of them have only 4 strength on 1 body. Producing 2 heavily armored units makes the Larva very durable. Plus, even if they are instantly removed, they still played for 6 points. If a Greatswords/Frigate are instantly removed, they only played for 4+/5 points. What's not okay is that Endrega Larva is basically the only 5-Provision unit that almost always play for 10+ points; that's double its provision cost.

- I get your examples but still, larvas (a single pair) they almost never survive or stay unlocked to actually "thrive".
They do not "almost always play for 10" points, Golyat does... the only time i see larvas play for way more than their actual value is when i play a Kiki deck, but that's an extreme example.

- Dunno, maybe they the devs could reduce their shield to 1 instead of 2.
...but then again how many good bronze engines do MOs have...? Nekkers...? they're one spit away from the graveyard ! :coolstory:
 
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- I get your examples but still, larvas (a single pair) they almost never survive or stay unlocked to actually "thrive".
They do not "almost always play for 10" points, Golyat does... the only time i see larvas play for way more than their actual value is when i play a Kiki deck, but that's an extreme example.

- Dunno, maybe they the devs could reduce their shield to 1 instead of 2.
...but then again how many good bronze engines do MOs have...? Nekkers...? they're one spit away from the graveyard ! :coolstory:
When I said they almost always play for 10+, I'm including the damage absorbed by the armor. Let's say your opponent uses a 3 damage effect to immediately remove one of the Larvas, that's 3 points because it's 3 damage that would have been dealt to another non-armored unit later in the match. Continuing said example, if the remaining Larva grows to 5 Power, which is very easy to accomplish, and then, your opponent's Row Punish effect (e.g. Lacerate, Tinboy, Heimdall, etc.) takes out its 2 Armor, that means that your 5-Provision card just played for 10 points (3 damage+5 Strength+2 damage).

The way to deal with a pair of Endrega Larva without dealing damage is by Locking or Seizing them, both of which are almost exclusively found in Nilfgaard, and neither mechanic is able to target both of the Larvas at once, excepting Serrit of course; although, he's almost never played. Just because Endrega Larva is usually bad against Nilfgaard doesn't mean that we should discount their immense value when facing the other five factions.
 
Hmmm, well... mayybe remove 1 point of armor? :]
OR change how it works completely! Maybe like this.. Instead of spawning 2 copies of the same card, it spawns one Larva but with the added effect "Each time this unit's Thrive effect is triggered, spawn 1 drone in this row." This way you still get 2 points per thrive but now it's just one target and thus a lot easier to remove... Not a bad idea? Hmm... this however might put it at 4 Provision value. :/ Maybe add some whacky Bonded effect to it.
Edit: or leave it as it is, in all the time I played Gwent never have I considered this card to be OP, strong - sure, but never did I think it's OP or needed a nerf.
 
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Almost every faction has a couple of really nice bronze units. Personally, I find the plethora of over powered golds to be a far bigger issue.
 
Larva is low tempo. Especially if you have a 2-3 card round you don't want a 4/6 power card. Plus the game is getting power crept every expac, by next expac it may be too weak to see play. Finally, if they play it say r1 and then play a second larva and/or bruxa, that's several low tempo plays. You know exactly how much is the ceiling/reach w/yghern and you can get out of the round.
 

rrc

Forum veteran
I think its ok.

They usually goes to 5 points each one (thats 10)

But maybe it can take one of the armor off.

Also, they indeed are really strong in long rounds, but in short rounds this card its kind of broken
I have had Larvas grow up to 7 more often. It is not difficult or even far fetched. In a long R3, they easily and usually goes up to 7.
Larva are easy to kill and/or shutdown, especially nowdays that bronzes can dish out 3dmg and some of them like NG infiltrator can kill both of them at the same time.
Also... unlike the frigates you cannot boost em (makes no sense to boost a thrive unit) to save em or tutor and boost em at the same time like NR.

Just because they are good, it doesn't mean you have to nerf em,
When I use only one pair they rarely survive and don't tell me that people don't target them cause of armor cause they do... non stop !
Most of the time imo they take the heat for other units, I personally use-view em as baits... :)
Define Easy. Larva are not easy to kill. One of the Larvas, yes. Both of them NOT so (unless we add the terrible Sandstrom just to counter this one unit - which I had done too). So, if opponent kills one Larva immediately and the next the next turn, they have already soaked up 7 points of damage to themselves. 7 points on damage is HUGE value than putting 7 points body on board.
Yes and than ppl Will ask to nerf nekkers to 5 provision
Nekkers are easy to remove (half the cards in Gwent does 2 damage). Nekkers are the ONLY 4P card which can get 2 points per turn and in turn, it has the weakness of being fragile and easy to remove.
5 provisions cards are supposed to play for 7+ points, if they play for 6 or less, even if immediately the card is very likely garbage.
Larvae still needs time to grow, Frigate is 4+2*turns, while Larvae is 2+2*turns.
I am not saying that Larvae is not very strong for being a 5p card, however stating it is stronger than Frigate is definitely very wrong, especially considering the support Frigate has (AA, Adalia, boosts in general (which are actually negative on Larvae) etc), while Larvae does not really have such support for itself.
One 5P card can shut down a Frigate (now if you say not if it is AAed, that is a wrong argument. Those points given are AAs one and not Frigate's). Larva are twice as hard to remove and cheaper too! and hence Larva are stronger than Frigate. Also Frigate is 6P. If Larva is 6P, then no one would complain.
- I get your examples but still, larvas (a single pair) they almost never survive or stay unlocked to actually "thrive".
They do not "almost always play for 10" points, Golyat does... the only time i see larvas play for way more than their actual value is when i play a Kiki deck, but that's an extreme example.

- Dunno, maybe they the devs could reduce their shield to 1 instead of 2.
...but then again how many good bronze engines do MOs have...? Nekkers...? they're one spit away from the graveyard ! :coolstory:
Again, if both Lava had been killed, they had taken at least 7 damage which is HUGE. Unanswered Larva easily goes 10+.

I have mentioned this before in a separate thread I think, but I will re-iterate:
1) Lava should be 6P (or)
2) They should lose one armor (or)
3) They should thrive only on Barricade
 
Larva is strong but is not op.Kerack frigate more strong because have synergie with Vissegerd ,Voymir and Uprising.But Larva have no synergie and is weak against Yrden according to Frigate.Also you can use Radovid's Royal Guards to protect frigate.
 
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