Can we please Nerf Sniper Rifles?

[ya1]

"CAN WE PLEASE NERF SNIPER RIFLES?"​

NOOOO!

NO, thanks

absoultely not
my overwatch needs to stay exactly as it is

With all due respect, I don't mean to personally attack anyone but these reactions do not bring much to the discussion, do they?

The sniper rifles in this game are my favourite weapons so, I must respectfully say no to a nerf.

Do you really believe that this approach is healthy for the game? That devs should abandon all balance changes because people have favorites?

Meta only matters in a game that has multiplayer. If you don’t want to use snipers, don’t use them? That’s the greatness of single player games - you don’t need to keep up with an ever evolving meta.

If you say that in a job interview for gameplay dev, you're not gonna hear another question. Heard of Doom Eternal? Grim Dawn? These are primarily single player games, and some of the best in their respective genres. Those games are being meticulously balanced to provide sufficient challenge and diversity of gameplay for the majority of players.

EVERY game should be balanced. Even in Tetris, you gotta balance how fast the blocks fall at different levels.

DPS and "hit" damages are not related at all.

Yes they are, in fact. It's one of the faulty mechanics. Together with a reload glitch, this faulty inconsistence contribute to what you can see in the pic attached below.

No way, none of the weapons need messing with.

Are you sure?

This is on a tech pistol with a reload attack speed glitch. Afaik still does ~10 mil legit. Afaik sniper rifles can do about 2-5 mil legit. So you can nerf sniper rifles by 99% and they will still be one-shotting mobs at endgame many times over. So... ahem... respectfully, kekw?

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

Do you really believe that this approach is healthy for the game? That devs should abandon all balance changes because people have favorites?

It doesn't matter what I believe. I stated that I prefer them as they are and thus dont like to see them nerfed. Thats just that.
Also, that argument goes both ways.

[Edit]
Wait, I have to correct myself. While I prefer them as they are, I am not saying there cannot be chances. I had some ideas that could help or inspire some change that may work.

 

[northwold]

can we please nerf Sniper Rifles?
like really nerf them. like cut their headshot & critical damage at least about 66%

even the cheapest 150 DPS Rifle is the best and also most boring Meta for everything.
why buy or build a legendary weapon if a common grey Sniper Rifle deals 10 times more damage than needed to kill every enemy in town?

combined with the right mods & perks you can make enemies visible thru walls and shoot them in the head from like about the other side of town.
its crazy. and boring.

I actually find them realistic (in real life, that is what sniper rifles achieve), and the slow load time is calibrated to offset that advantage, as does the sway. You would never use a sniper rifle at close range.

What I think would help, though, is more movement from enemies so that it's easier to miss, and more sway (I know people hate the sway but in real life if you're using a sniper rifle over a long distance you would rest it on something or use a tripod).

Also, I don't think they should shoot through walls.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

I actually find them realistic (in real life, that is what sniper rifles achieve), and the slow load time is calibrated to offset that advantage, as does the sway. You would never use a sniper rifle at close range.

What I think would help, though, is more movement from enemies so that it's easier to miss, and more sway (I know people hate the sway but in real life if you're using a sniper rifle over a long distance you would rest it on something or use a tripod).

Also, I don't think they should shoot through walls.

I will say though, it not always clear through what type of cover some weapons can shoot through, and which ones not.
Because at least both Grad and Neko can, but I have the impression Neko can shoot through more solid objects. But I cant be sure. I also have only a vivid recollection of having used a Neko with a scope that allowed me to see enemies behind quite thick cover, while the Grad I carried at the same time did not allow me that (was different scope). I've never bothered to test it more in any way, I just played onwards organically, where the grad was my go-to weapon with the high damage. And if enemies would remain behind cover and I could not shoot or see them, I swapped for the Neko and then I was able to both see and shoot.

 

[458speciale]

With all due respect, I don't mean to personally attack anyone but these reactions do not bring much to the discussion, do they?

the thread put a precise question, I answered. There is no need of useless extra blabbling

 

[Guest 4522391]

.

 

[Sir-Napkinz]

so you really think its a good idea to make a 250 DPS weapon deal 20,000 Damage and also make it possible to shoot thru like 6 walls in the head of a guy that is already marked by your cyberware?

i tell you how every fight works in town:
stand on a bridge > shoot in the head of 10 enemies that are like one mile away and behind 200 walls > profit!!???!

So then don't play that way! Why do you feel the need to tell everyone else how they should be playing?

That's like saying "I hate all Ford autos because they're terrible, so Ford should just not be an option for anyone."

Furthermore, the devs have already caught more hate for myriad aspects of this game than most people thought poasible. Just wait and see how the players react if they nerf sniper rifles. But you'd probably love that, wouldnt you?

Hey if you ever get bored (seems likely) of being the only player of 2077, and the only customer CDPR has, please let us know so somebody else can have a turn.

 

[lyin321]

, weapons that sweet talk the enemy are not realistic, especially in the future.

I have to disagree with you there....there is a smart gun named 'Skippy' that has an AI and talks. Well, it will probably taunt the enemies and not sweet-talk then but...

 

[NorseGraphics]

I actually find them realistic (in real life, that is what sniper rifles achieve), and the slow load time is calibrated to offset that advantage, as does the sway. You would never use a sniper rifle at close range.

What I think would help, though, is more movement from enemies so that it's easier to miss, and more sway (I know people hate the sway but in real life if you're using a sniper rifle over a long distance you would rest it on something or use a tripod).

Also, I don't think they should shoot through walls.

There are already rounds piercing through walls. Add another 50 years, and who knows what type of ammo there is.

7.62mm-series - Nammo | Nammo

 

[SpookyFX]

There are already rounds piercing through walls. Add another 50 years, and who knows what type of ammo there is.

7.62mm-series - Nammo | Nammo

Well... we would have better walls as well. Just as likely to advance building materials in 50 years. I know if they invited bullets that could pass thru 4 feet of old type of concrete and steel walls like paper I would want my Corpo building walls to be made better as well. This is an OLD story in RL arms race! Better weapons then result in better armor. (To keep balance in the force.)

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

Why would anyone ask for this? Seriously do you really want to do a impossible headshot from far away only to find out the target didn't die and is now targeting you and warning everyone of your presence? Also, if you value realism there is no such thing as "nerfed" weapons, weapons that sweet talk the enemy are not realistic, especially in the future. Lastly, bullet sponges ruin the gameplay experience unless you are fighting a boss or some armored enemy like for example a robot.

Btw, this still does happen if you just did the heist and go straight into Heywood or Corpo plaza. I thought: "hey, got the grad, lets blow some faces up.." That did not go very well, because I way way to low leveled on everything. So its not like getting a sniper = immediate overpowered state.

if one were to stay in watson until level 50, get legendaries etc for everything and max out everything before the heist I call that a soft cheat and then I do feel like one should not complain about breaking the flow of what the game intended that way.

I do agree with that the choice that was taken to give each area an set level status, and thus creating a certain 'path' which you'd have to walk through the environment could have been done differently. Personally, I very much like what Monolith Soft did in Xenoblade Chronicles X. Quickly: In that game low level enemies and high level enemies are basically distributed through one another and high level enemies usually have in andicator that determines how/when you'd aggro them. You can bypass them if you want. If Cyberpunk also did something like that for all districts and sprinkles in high level enemies on key locations it can become much more dynamic. Also, I would like it if from pockets of enemies in a certain location their level can be different where you have say: 5 moderately level characters, but then one high (or very high) level character that can throw you for a loop. In the same way you can make more prominent outposts and camps of enemies have more concentration of high level enemies within, but have some lower leveled enemies around, allowing you to take pod-shots atthem and poke the hornets nest as it were.
I think that could add some good flavour in how to deal with enemies groups.
And then ofcourse a level scaling effect that can be distributed between a min and max. enemies that were supposed to be lower leveled can at some point cap to their max and thus be very weak to a high leveled V. Bt the higher level enemies will scale alongside V and remain powerful up to V's max.

 

[MehlstaubtheCat]

in fact i think its the developers work to balance the game. its not a "i dont like it thing". its a big balance issue i think.

It´s a single player game at the moment!
There is no need to nerv or balance the game.
But when the multiplayer is coming out there is a need to.
But i don´t mind, i will never play the multiplayer, so it´s pointless for me eather!

 

[ya1]

Just a side question for people who defend sniper rifles and CP77 balance in general: do you think it's okay that the final boss fight - the culmination of the story when the hero meets his nemesis - can be ended in a fraction of a second with one shot?

 

[lyin321]

Just a side question for people who defend sniper rifles and CP77 balance in general: do you think it's okay that the final boss fight - the culmination of the story when the hero meets his nemesis - can be ended in a fraction of a second with one shot?

If the same level no, it is not ok. He should (and the lore is there for that) ways to make such deadly strategies to not work on him. If they work on some random thugs that's fine. (Same for the elite/veteran enemies btw....no killing through a wall trick for you! Maybe have them use grenades or quickhacks that fills the area with heat(or whatever your scope/tech weapon use to 'see' the enemies) ).
But can you tell more about how you killed him so fast? Does he have some weak spot? Because I remember my first character (more or less same level for there) killing him somewhat easy, but that was on normal. I imagine on harder difficulty I would have had to hide and slowly take his hp with grenades and quickhacks....

That said - there should (and is) a way for people that have focused on stealth to take him down.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Just a side question for people who defend sniper rifles and CP77 balance in general: do you think it's okay that the final boss fight - the culmination of the story when the hero meets his nemesis - can be ended in a fraction of a second with one shot?

Well prepared, you can defeat Smasher very quickly with all type of weapon (even in very hard)
Smart weapons : Prototype Mark V > few seconds.
Tech weapons : Legendary Quasar/Lizzie (2 bullets per shot) > few seconds.
Quick Hacks : Legendary Contagion/Overheat/Short Circuit and Cripple movements/cyberware malfunction > Few seconds.
Melee : Legendary Satori with good perks and Cyberware > few seconds.

It's not "Sniper rifles" problem

 

[BarefootWarrior]

Well prepared, you can defeat Smasher very quickly with all type of weapon (even in very hard)
Smart weapons : Prototype Mark V > few seconds.
Tech weapons : Legendary Quasar/Lizzie (2 bullets per shot) > few seconds.
Quick Hacks : Legendary Contagion/Overheat/Short Circuit and Cripple movements/cyberware malfunction > Few seconds.
Melee : Legendary Satori with good perks and Cyberware > few seconds.

It's not "Sniper rifles" problem

The one time I played through, I took out Smasher (very much to my surprise) in about thirty seconds with my Satori Katana. I didn't wait for him to finish what he was saying, I just attacked and didn't give him any time. The funny thing was I had intended to use my Prototype Mark V but the Satori popped up instead, I just went with it.

 

[NorseGraphics]

Just a side question for people who defend sniper rifles and CP77 balance in general: do you think it's okay that the final boss fight - the culmination of the story when the hero meets his nemesis - can be ended in a fraction of a second with one shot?

Yes.

It all depends on how prepared you are.

On my first play-through, I met Adam Smasher at level 28 (or so). Very difficult fight. I didn't use much cyberware, didn't know about armor (I think I hd around 200 in total). But I still prevailed.

Same with meeting Oda the first time, and I was surprised when he used stimpaks to heal between rounds. Try using the pistol in that fight, think I almost used all my ammo on that guy.

The point is, it should be up to the player to determine when and how to fight. Nerfing guns etc. is bad strategy for a single-player game.

My play-style has shifted from going from A (starting the game) to Z (bossfight) moving to exploring everywhere, doing the NCPD-quests, side-quests, get cyberware, hack the terminals, improving my gear and making lots of money etc. before I do the main-quests.

 

[offonoffon30]

I don't have a problem with sniper rifles having enormous damage, since it always suppose to one shot kill enemies. That being said, some weapons definitely can be too powerful, so as long as sniper rifle doesn't require multiple shots for enemies I'm fine with balancing/nerfing.

 

[Claw57]

Disclaimer:
The following is only my opinion.
Having said that, no, I don't feel the sniper rifles (or any weapon for that matter) should be nerfed.
As many have said, this is a single player game. (If multiplayer happens, then I would agree, there are some nerf/balancing issues.)
I feel that people should be able to play the way they want to, again in a SINGLE PLAYER game.
To force a nerf on others, just because you think something is OP would not be right, again, IMHO..
Just because you prefer to play the game a certain way, doesn't mean that's the way it was meant to be played, or how everyone should play it.
I play for fun, and while I do use the sniper rifles, I also use other methods to deal with enemies.
Basically I feel like it's a case of if you don't like what a weapon is capable of, just don't use it.
If a weapon makes you think it's wrong to use it, why use it?
What's next? Take out fast travel because it's too easy to get around the map?
If you don't like fast travel, don't use it- use a vehicle, or just walk if that's what you want.
The point is, there's different ways to play.
Going off on a tangent here:
I think this is similar to other threads regarding NG+. (for which I'm in favor).
Others have said that NG+ should not be an option- again, I disagree.
Leveling some of the skills in this game (again- IMHO) is too much of a grind.
I would welcome a NG+ option to be able to start a new game.
To argue that there should be no NG+, in my opinion, is wrong.
If NG+ is an option that some would not use, then don't use it!!!!
Should the difficulty settings be removed because you think game should be played at a certain difficulty level?

TLDR- "It hurts when I do this. Then don't do that!"

Again, the previous rambling is my opinion.

Thanks!

 

[ya1]

The point is, it should be up to the player to determine when and how to fight. Nerfing guns etc. is bad strategy for a single-player game.

Even when they start one-shotting your level mobs at 1/3 of char progression (lvl20-25) and exceeding that dmg by five orders of magnitude at max level?

On my first play-through, I met Adam Smasher at level 28 (or so). Very difficult fight. I didn't use much cyberware, didn't know about armor (I think I hd around 200 in total). But I still prevailed.

Exactly. And unless it's the easiest difficulty you really shouldn't have. You still killed the final boss with some stats at entry level (200 armor is pretty much negligible as armor is a percentage dmg reduction scaling linearly - another example of amateurish design - and 200 translates to about 3% dmg redux). It just supports my own argument. Balancing in CP is a hot mess. I'm not sure how scaling works on Smasher (afaik bosses have a different scaling mechanic than mobs), but it is obviously very very wrong.

By the way, I'm not criticizing here, I am genuinely interested as I study games academically and I wrote my master thesis on popular culture in games and how people receive it across different cultures. if you love the game so much (and you surely do for you wouldn't be defending it if there were no emotions involved) why in the world would you rush through it without doing any side content or attempting at developing your character?

Having said that, no, I don't feel the sniper rifles (or any weapon for that matter) should be nerfed.
As many have said, this is a single player game. (If multiplayer happens, then I would agree, there are some nerf/balancing issues.)

Again, this is very arguable from the point of view of gameplay development. Every game must be balanced. Not just video games. It is in the definition of "game." All games must be balanced to provide entertainment. Being single player has nothing to do with it.

It is hard to arrive at any conclusion without doing any proper research, but taking these forums as a sample, it is stunning how many people find it entertaining - the total uninhibited god mode, player noninteractivity, and general - imo - painfully trivial gameplay given as default on the hardest difficulty in CP77.