Can we please Nerf Sniper Rifles?

[northwold]

Even when they start one-shotting your level mobs at 1/3 of char progression (lvl20-25) and exceeding that dmg by five orders of magnitude at max level?



Exactly. And unless it's the easiest difficulty you really shouldn't have. You still killed the final boss with some stats at entry level (200 armor is pretty much negligible as armor is a percentage dmg reduction scaling linearly - another example of amateurish design - and 200 translates to about 3% dmg redux). It just supports my own argument. Balancing in CP is a hot mess. I'm not sure how scaling works on Smasher (afaik bosses have a different scaling mechanic than mobs), but it is obviously very very wrong.

By the way, I'm not criticizing here, I am genuinely interested as I study games academically and I wrote my master thesis on popular culture in games and how people receive it across different cultures. if you love the game so much (and you surely do for you wouldn't be defending it if there were no emotions involved) why in the world would you rush through it without doing any side content or attempting at developing your character?



Again, this is very arguable from the point of view of gameplay development. Every game must be balanced. Not just video games. It is in the definition of "game." All games must be balanced to provide entertainment. Being single player has nothing to do with it.

It is hard to arrive at any conclusion without doing any proper research, but taking these forums as a sample, it is stunning how many people find it entertaining - the total uninhibited god mode, player noninteractivity, and general - imo - painfully trivial gameplay given as default on the hardest difficulty in CP77.

I wrote a thing on Reddit about the smasher fight. Regardless of the general point re sniper rifles (which I think are correct as stated because the loading time compensates), Smasher needs to level with the player or at least have several slices of life rather than being one shottable at high levels, if only because he's supposedly close to 100% cyberware and the final fight, AND that a lot of thought seemingly went into that fight (which I've never seen as I played it at level 50).

By slices of life I mean the classic videogame conceit that you can only hit a boss for a certain amount of life at a time, after which he switches into his next phase.

 

[SpookyFX]

I wrote a thing on Reddit about the smasher fight. Regardless of the general point re sniper rifles (which I think are correct as stated because the loading time compensates), Smasher needs to level with the player or at least have several slices of life rather than being one shottable at high levels, if only because he's supposedly close to 100% cyberware and the final fight, AND that a lot of thought seemingly went into that fight (which I've never seen as I played it at level 50).

By slices of life I mean the classic videogame conceit that you can only hit a boss for a certain amount of life at a time, after which he switches into his next phase.

No thanks! That is the same as being a damage sponge. Game opponents do not need stupid levels of health to be a challenge. If the sniper riffle scope were done properly you would not be able to use it accurately inside a normal room in a building. It is the sniper riffles that are a problem not the damage the NPC can take. There is a reason RL snipers also carry side arms.

 

[northwold]

No thanks! That is the same as being a damage sponge. Game opponents do not need stupid levels of health to be a challenge. If the sniper riffle scope were done properly you would not be able to use it accurately inside a normal room in a building. It is the sniper riffles that are a problem not the damage the NPC can take. There is a reason RL snipers also carry side arms.

Honestly I had killed Smasher before he'd even started talking the first time I did it. (Sniper rifles are a distinct discussion; ya1 raised the Smasher fight as a separate point.) There is an issue with the Smasher fight and it would be nice to see it fixed.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

No thanks! That is the same as being a damage sponge. Game opponents do not need stupid levels of health to be a challenge. If the sniper riffle scope were done properly you would not be able to use it accurately inside a normal room in a building. It is the sniper riffles that are a problem not the damage the NPC can take. There is a reason RL snipers also carry side arms.

I would say like you for most of the enemies/boss in the game (if not all), but Smasher is a special case and the only one that could be a "damage sponge" for me.
Due to the fact, he is almost entirely chromed and possibily really resistant to bullet and blade/melee damages. Honestly, Katana (or baseball bat) vs Metal... we all know who win...
So not more health, but less damage per hit (only for some weapons. Short circuit QH stay with normal damage for example).

 

[SpookyFX]

I would say like you for most of the enemies/boss in the game (if not all), but Smasher is a special case and the only one that could be a "damage sponge" for me.
Due to the fact, he is almost entirely chromed and possibily really resistant to bullet and blade/melee damages. Honestly, Katana (or baseball bat) vs Metal... we all know who win...
So not more health, but less damage per hit (only for some weapons. Short circuit QH stay with normal damage for example).

It is hard to disagree with that, however, what else could be done to make him a challenge? Most of the following I have done myself in my combat mods for Oblivion and Skyrim and Fallout:


Give him the ability to knock your butt across the room!

Have him knock or grab your weapon to the ground.

Have him use flash bombs to blur your vision (or smoke).

Give him a force field shield to deflect attacks. NOT a "magic" cocoon around him but one he has to actively aim in your direction to use like a riot shield.

Have him use Cyber TEC to do evasive dodging and make it harder to hit him.

Sound attacks to make your aim sway.

Anytime you get way too close to him (even behind him) while he is moving his mass and strength batter you with damage the way they used War Horse in medieval battles.


I am not saying to use any or all of the above just demonstrating that there are many other ways other than BulletSponganication!!!

Edit: Did they give him the ability to make your smart bullets go around him the way the Tyger Claws could?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Yes, all of that is good
But without going as far as the bullet sponge, a little more that would not be bad. Because less than 1 magazine of Quasar to defeat him (in very hard), there is room

 

[SpookyFX]

I will start another thread for Adam Smasher boss fight improvements. (Before we get in trouble )

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

It is hard to disagree with that, however, what else could be done to make him a challenge? Most of the following I have done myself in my combat mods for Oblivion and Skyrim and Fallout:


Give him the ability to knock your butt across the room!

Have him knock or grab your weapon to the ground.

Have him use flash bombs to blur your vision (or smoke).

Give him a force field shield to deflect attacks. NOT a "magic" cocoon around him but one he has to actively aim in your direction to use like a riot shield.

Have him use Cyber TEC to do evasive dodging and make it harder to hit him.

Sound attacks to make your aim sway.

Anytime you get way too close to him (even behind him) while he is moving his mass and strength batter you with damage the way they used War Horse in medieval battles.


I am not saying to use any or all of the above just demonstrating that there are many other ways other than BulletSponganication!!!

Edit: Did they give him the ability to make your smart bullets go around him the way the Tyger Claws could?

I think Adam Smasher could use some moves such as Shao Kahn's dash when you want to close in on him. Make him knock you back ways.
A few added hitpoints I would be okay with in this instance since he's pretty much a robot.
And what could also work is if he has the ability to call on a small force field (of something) from his arm mount that disables the ability for smart weapons to lock-on, tech weapons to penetrate (including the oddball Grad-sniper) This field would deplete when being shot at, or run out after a said amount of time. It could be used in conjunction with his ranged AoE-abilities.

Post automatically merged: Jun 12, 2021

I will start another thread for Adam Smasher boss fight improvements. (Before we get in trouble )

Which means my post can be moved to that topic

 

[ya1]

But without going as far as the bullet sponge

Why are you people so afraid of bullet sponging? This is an RPG, isn't it? Virtually all RPGs have the mechanics of health points and damage. Some degree of damage tanking aka bullet sponging is INHERENT TO THE GENRE. Otherwise those mechanics are obsolete. Because when you one-shot everything, why even bother with health and damage?

Also, in vanilla CP, very hard, throughout the whole game, you one-shot every mid-threat human enemy with base Overwatch headshots WITHOUT PUTTING A SINGLE POINT IN ANY ATTRIBUTE, PERK OR USING ANY CYBERNETICS. So even if you nerf them 1-100 times and more (in their respective levels 1-50), they will still be one-shotting with the right perks from Reflex and Cool.

You guys argue ever so zealously about the game balance but it seems that you have a very limited understanding of the game's mechanics.

I will start another thread for Adam Smasher boss fight improvements. (Before we get in trouble )

The problem with Smasher is complicated. Bosses have a different level scaling than mobs. I don't know how it works except that it doesn't work. Also, even when you're understatted, AI becomes a problem. Enemies, Smasher included, are so limited, stupid and abusable that you can clear the game without ever opening the inventory and skill tree if you have time for that. Third, boss design is weak.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Why are you people so afraid of bullet sponging?

Why ? Maybe simply because it's annoying... And for me, it's a too easy way to make enemies feel more powerful.
Harder > More Health. There is no simpler and more basic way to do it. In short, the quick and cheap solution

 

[SpookyFX]

Why ? Maybe simply because it's annoying... And for me, it's a too easy way to make enemies feel more powerful.
Harder > More Health. There is no simpler and more basic way to do it. In short, the quick and cheap solution

Bullet sponge is and old and tired mechanic. The modern Dev can do better and many try to do better theses days. Even they, CDPR, knows this is the worst way to make a boss battle. This is why CDPR did NOT make Adam Smasher a bullet sponge in this game. They knew it was wrong. CDPR just fell short in making him a challenge without sucking up a stupid amount of damage.

They TRIED to do better by making YOUR health limited in this battle and I applaud them for that. But I hope they learn new tricks to make boss battles with out the bullet sponge noinesence!

 

[Czech Death]

1/ Why would you want to edit singleplayer experience of other players, that are isolated from you in their own singleplayer experience?

2/ Sniper rifles should be powerful. Its terrible enough when several point blank shotgun shots do barely any damage. If anything other weapons need to get boosted, but then there is the previous point.

3/ Modding. There are reballances already. There will be lot more I can guarantee you that. And guess what? You don't like something? Pickup the modding tools and make your own mod to your liking, dont be lazy. Modding is great. Im modding games since 2005 xD.

 

[Raptorousrex]

Well, weapon damage in general is bit odd shotguns dont do barely a thing while pistols and shotguns seem to do most damage while smgs being meh.

Considering SPT32 Grad player sould move slowly with equiped rifle and reminds me too much Solothurn S18-1000 that weighsts about 52kg.

​

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Considering SPT32 Grad player sould move slowly with equiped rifle and reminds me too much Solothurn S18-1000 that weighsts about 52kg.

If for that, you must have a minimum Body skill required for full potential of Grad (and some other).

 

[AddictedToPringles]

if you guys are so concerned about "realism" und that "Snipers should be OP cause in Real Life they are too!!!!11111!1111!!!!"

lets talk about the realism about Hip-Firing Snipers in reality while standing or even moving around and lets talk about the realistic fact that an Armor Piercing Sniper Bullet is way more expensive in RL than a Pistol Bullet.

lets talk about those realistic things too, please.