Can't belive they cut out the humanity cost from the game

+
Kind of reminds (or leads me) towards thinking about a certain "mechanic" in old cRPGs (not really sure which got this, might be Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights, etc), where - when you are dumb as fuck (Intelligence below 5 or sth?) then you were only able to grunt and were not able to make any sensible conversation AT ALL.

Just an example how modifiedthe gaming/rp experience might be like that and - as someone pointed out - might even lead to death or unplayability in the long run when "out of humanity" (or essence).

Examples on what happens are "everywhere". Maelstrom probably the most obvious beside cyberpsychos. But there are also some, like LizzyWizzy, who are another example how it might turn out.

And I really get the folks who see this as an interesting RP thing, but I stand by the opinion which I stated before even though it's short: good thing they didn't do it.
 
@Simpson3000 humanity costs are rolled randomly for example an arm in Shadowrun 5.0 has an essence cost of 1 the same arm in CP2020 has an average humanity cost of 7 with a range of 2 to 12. Humanity is a game mechanic used to represent how well that individuals psyche handles the cyberware.

Edit:
Humanity as a stat is derived from the Empathy stat at a rate of 10 humanity for 1 empathy and is reversed when getting cyberware, so if you roll a 7 for humanity cost your empathy will drop by 0.7 points which you then round down.
 
I'm sure they could have found a way to fit it in if they really wanted to.

Such as the lower your humanity due to chrome, the more often you go berserk in combat, basically your character just starts moving around randomly and shooting or swinging wildly. You would still be able to somewhat steer your character, but movement would be much less responsive. The length of time it lasts would also depend on your humanity score.
Just as one quickly thought-out example.
 
Slept on it and thought up of a more "positive" way to implement cyberpsycho/low humanity.

Similar to the vampire/werewolf mechanics in the elder scrolls games and other similar games, it could become encouraged for the player to kill civilians by granting a buff for each civilian killed or just kills in general (losing control of your character is disrupting for a player and jarring for gameplay flow).

So there could be a long term debuff which slowly drains life through mental damage (because you are going crazy) and it does...(arbitrary numbers) 10 damage every 30 seconds. After a kill the debuff is wiped and a buff is gained for 5 minutes that increases stats, like player damage or player movement speed or any attribute the player specs into (this could be a tree, similar to cold blooded).

In addition to this, dialog choices become limited due to being "inhuman".

This way it adds flavor, a mostly ignorable debuff, but encourages players to keep the buff on because of the positive effects (like you are going crazy and the only way to satisfy the blood thirst is to kill someone, anyone, and then you feel better...even stronger).

For a drug use reference per my previous post, addiction could reduce max life by 15/25/35% per level of addiction and can only be recovered with use of drugs or long duration debuff wears off. Causing a dynamic of constantly using stim packs and drugs to be at peak health. Again a skill tree could be added that increases stats when drugged up, like making the use of the drugs stronger due to familiarity (in real life you would become desensitized to the drugs and need more, but this is for gameplay)

By encouraging players to do negative things to feel powerful you create a level of gameplay choice and consequences as well as creating a sense of roleplay as the players feel the consequences of addiction to drugs or cybernetics. Unique gameplay is good and changes the interaction from one character to the next making choices meaningful and rewarding.
 
Is humanity the equivalent of the essence from shadowrun which determine how much of your body is left naturally to be able to use magic?
Yes. It's the same idea. However, since Shadowrun takes a more metaphysical approach to it, the logical arguments that are cropping up in this thread about Humanity don't apply to Essence. (Mages and Shaman's NEVER get chromed if they can help it. Each drop in Essence reduces their magical ability. But sometimes bad shit happens, the Mage/Shaman gets critically wounded, and has to get implants to function. There is an actual character archetype for this called the "Burned out Mage".)
 
I've read it was cut because it was deemed offensive to people that need prosthetics IRL, ie. it doesn't make them any less human. I think that mecanic was removed in the newest edition of the TTRPG, too. Also, once you go into cyberpsychosis it's game over, so no point in including that system I guess.
For fuck sakes! One cant even think without hurting sensibilities.
What has to do a prostatic leg with a frontal cortex reflexes enhancer? I can miss a leg and also understand that if you remove 99% of your body for chrome, you are more machine than human...
Jeez, what a fucking world...
 
I thought they said their would be consequences for having too much cyberware? I have every slot filled lol

Yep, just like the NPCs were supposed to have a life, the cops were supposed to be individuals who could possibly be bribed, different dialogue options were supposed to change the outcome of quests and the overall story. Oblivion did all of those things 15 years ago but somehow they can't pull it off today.
 
Yep, just like the NPCs were supposed to have a life, the cops were supposed to be individuals who could possibly be bribed, different dialogue options were supposed to change the outcome of quests and the overall story. Oblivion did all of those things 15 years ago but somehow they can't pull it off today.
Hell witcher 3 had some of that stuff.
LOL i just saw this one reddit, what a broken ass game.. Seems like the radio DJs in the car are voiced by V.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/kxp4p6
 
It would have been cool if your humanity or lack of it would have played a role in skill checks and such.

Shame because Humanity stat big part of the pen and paper cp and prevented players just slapping max cyberware on their bodies. Right now player characters are just modded out murder hobos that perfectly blend into the crowds.
Post automatically merged:

For fuck sakes! One cant even think without hurting sensibilities.
What has to do a prostatic leg with a frontal cortex reflexes enhancer? I can miss a leg and also understand that if you remove 99% of your body for chrome, you are more machine than human...
Jeez, what a fucking world...
Common CP2020 house rule was that if player lost limb or whatnot in accident/fight or so, replacing it with cyber one would not have a high humanity cost (or any at all). For 2077 this could just been added to the world lore and everyone would be OK with it.
 
Last edited:
Is humanity the equivalent of the essence from shadowrun wich determine how much of your body is left naturally to be able to use magic?

It was not only about magic, even in Shadowrun 0 Essence would mean cyberzobie od death as far as i remember.
 
The Empathy/Humanity mechanic of the original pen & paper game was brilliant. You constantly had to balance the cool cyberware you wanted to add to your meat, with the chances that you'd become more machine than human, and unable to relate to other people and finally sliding into Cyberpsychosis.

Having to switch out cyberware and keep track of your empathy score would have made this game better, and they'd get bonus points for changing dialog as the player became less and less human. It would be cool for meat V to say "I just don't get it" and less empathetic V to say "That set of parameters leads to invalid outcomes"...
Post automatically merged:

Common CP2020 house rule was that if player lost limb or whatnot in accident/fight or so, replacing it with cyber one would not have a high humanity cost (or any at all). For 2077 this could just been added to the world lore and everyone would be OK with it.

We counted all of the metal, after all it still is replacing meat. Think about how people with prosthetics can have emotional problems even today. If you don't want to go down the cyberpsychosis hole, get a replacement arm covered in RealSkin and don't add blades, monowire, and a machinegun to it! :LOL:
 
We counted all of the metal, after all it still is replacing meat. Think about how people with prosthetics can have emotional problems even today. If you don't want to go down the cyberpsychosis hole, get a replacement arm covered in RealSkin and don't add blades, monowire, and a machinegun to it! :LOL:

There was a post earlier in this thread about how we can't have nice things because it insults someone. Well, maybe it wouldn't had to be so if there weren't people who first mix science with magic and then start projecting that magical garbage IRL.

"Emotional problem". People with or without prosthetics can go through periods of depression, like any other people, for same reasons as any other people. Depression then, it has nothing to do with anyone's humanity. There's no system in the western world at least, that somehow measures depressed people, having somehow less humanity, than any other people.

Even if person scores high, lets say ADHD on DMS/ICD, still a human. Cyberpunk 2077 way, is actually the high route.

These examples about "humanity cost" describes symptoms people on autism spectra may have, having side effects from medication (not necessarily even for psychiatric purposes) and these "emotional problems".
 
There was a post earlier in this thread about how we can't have nice things because it insults someone. Well, maybe it wouldn't had to be so if there weren't people who first mix science with magic and then start projecting that magical garbage IRL.

"Emotional problem". People with or without prosthetics can go through periods of depression, like any other people, for same reasons as any other people. Depression then, it has nothing to do with anyone's humanity. There's no system in the western world at least, that somehow measures depressed people, having somehow less humanity, than any other people.

Even if person scores high, lets say ADHD on DMS/ICD, still a human. Cyberpunk 2077 way, is actually the high route.

These examples about "humanity cost" describes symptoms people on autism spectra may have, having side effects from medication (not necessarily even for psychiatric purposes) and these "emotional problems".

You're right, getting your legs blown off on a battlefield or having an arm ripped off by machinery would not contribute to emotional or psychological issues at all. None at all. Back to sunshine and puppy dogs right away.

I never said only people with prosthetics would have depression or problems. What I said was that getting a piece of your body removed and replacing it with a mechanical appendage would likely lead to emotional issues, which could be part of the basis for how cyberpsychosis manifests. Which is basically what Pondsmith said in the pen & paper RPG. All of this is in the context of a GAME, not real life.

Lighten up, Francis.
 
It was not only about magic, even in Shadowrun 0 Essence would mean cyberzobie od death as far as i remember.
Essentially if you drop below 1 Essence, your dancing with death. Magic heal spells will almost never work on you (unless the caster is extremely skilled), and even normal healing takes a hit. Dropping to 0 Essence means your dead, so technically your character can exist at 0.1 Essence. But I sure wouldn't want to play a character at that level. The first time you got messed up in a firefight would be your last.

Cyberzombie's are a different breed. They are generally below zero Essence. What holds them "together" is a complex magical ritual that tethers the spirit to the flesh. It's a tortured existence, and any Cyberzombie that retains any awareness of their former life usually begs for death.
 
You're right, getting your legs blown off on a battlefield or having an arm ripped off by machinery would not contribute to emotional or psychological issues at all. None at all. Back to sunshine and puppy dogs right away.

I never said only people with prosthetics would have depression or problems. What I said was that getting a piece of your body removed and replacing it with a mechanical appendage would likely lead to emotional issues, which could be part of the basis for how cyberpsychosis manifests. Which is basically what Pondsmith said in the pen & paper RPG. All of this is in the context of a GAME, not real life.

Lighten up, Francis.
No, you are trying weasel your way around associating real life symptoms with what is "humanity cost".

You say "emotional or psychological issues" yes, but then in context of game, you want them to reflect Humanity Cost. But psychological issues, doesn't make anyone less humane IRL. This is what got the tabletop version in trouble to begin with and why changes had to be made. People starting making these real life analogies up, based on fluff.
 
Top Bottom