Caster Geralt: Three Magic Builds for Witcher 2

[Ringlin]

Caster Geralt: Three Magic Builds for Witcher 2

Few magic builds make it to the forums. A Witcher is no sorcerer, and the game mechanics favor his sword: it does more damage, hits more quickly, and doesn't deplete a tiny pool of Vigor. Swashbuckler Geralt kicks sand on Caster Geralt.

... usually. Here are three Magic Builds that actually work (at least on Normal and Hard, where I've used them). They hardly use Quen. And they don't require running in circles like a pansy while waiting for Vigor to regenerate. You're no Dandelion.

But first, to see why and how they're effective, it helps to know

HOW VIGOR WORKS
Lack of Vigor causes Fatigue.

When your Vigor bar is empty, you do half your normal sword damage.
The formula is 50/total Vigor points = % reduction for each (so after using 1 of 3, you do 17% less damage), but the math matters less than the concept. Emptying your vigor bar before whacking an enemy isn't efficient if you want to kill with your sword.
Why this isn't listed in the Journal entry for Vigor is a mystery. Ask Dandelion, when he stops running.​

Vigor regenerates at an even rate after your last cast.

After 4 seconds without casting, you get a new bar. If you cast again in 3 seconds, the timer resets.
That assumes 2 pts in Vigor regen through Training. Otherwise, it's 5 seconds per bar in-combat.
Schemer 2 cuts regen to 3 seconds each. Condensation 2 cuts it to 2 seconds per bar, but Schemer can be had earlier in the game. Armor of Ysgith combines with Schemer to equal the bonus of Condensation; it does not stack with Condensation.
Out-of-combat, there's an additional delay of 2+ seconds before the first bar returns.​

Now the builds!

Aard Crit Build
So fun, and so different from in play style from any other build. If you like 'finishing move' animations, this is for you, as it relies on Critical Effects.

Fights feel even more like fencing than with a standard Swordsman build. It enables a quick attack to probe for weakness (a stun, a freeze, a knockdown), and when you get one, you rush in for a kill. When you don't, you poke again while keeping just enough distance and safety. You control the fight not by being invulnerable but by being ready. It's intense, and great fun.

You need Quen only occasionally, and you don't suffer from the Fatigue penalty since you're using your sword as a finisher.

Training (6): Vigor Regen 2, Parrying, Fortitude 2, Arrow Redir
Swords (4): Footwork 2, Position 2
Magic (13): Aard 2, Destructive Magic 2, Quen 1, Magical Vigor 2, Magical Intensification 1, Fatal Attraction 1, Yrden 1, Energy Flow 2, Sense of Magic 1
Alchemy (11): Synthesis 1, Potions 1, Harvester 1, Oils 1, Transmutation 1, Metathesis 1, Condensation 2, Mutant 1, Amplification 2​

The drawback: Critical Effect Mutagens are essential for this build, along with a respec after slotting them with Impregnation. It's possible to go this route without mindless rolling, though. You're aiming for 30%+: five improved Greaters, or six improved Basics.

Note that Finesse and Energy Flow won't get you there, and also that your proc rate will be about half that listed in the Character Pane (with Pyromaniac and Winter’s Shroud Abilities, this build procs about one in three casts) - see the post below on Mutagens.


Igni Damage Build
Ok, ok: this build occasionally demands that you run like a pansy while your Vigor refills. Axii at the start of a battle can help, but this remains as close to a glass cannon as a Witcher can get. Unlike the Aard Crit Build, you won't be looking to 'finish' with a sword, as most of your enemies will burn to death. Again, you don't suffer from the Fatigue penalty, so cast away.

Training (6): Vigor Regen 2, Parrying, Fortitude 2, Arrow Redir
Swords (4): Footwork 2, Position 2
Magic (13): Destructive Magic 2, Quen 1, Magical Vigor 1, Magical Intensification 2 (improves base damage by a third), Igni 2 (adds range but no damage), Yrden 1, Magical Life Force 1, Sense of Magic 1, Control over the Power 2
Alchemy (11): Synthesis 1, Potions 1, Harvester 1, Oils 1, Transmutation 1, Metathesis 1, Condensation 2, Mutant 1, Amplification 2​

Rolling for Concentration Mutagens is no fun - the success rate is low. If you do slot them, it's worth getting Impregnation first, and then a respect, since it triples their bonus. See the post below about Mutagens.
Instead, you can get by with stacking +Sign damage items. With them, Igni damage can equal that of a sword and deliver more, because enemy spell resistance subtracts less than their armor does from sword blows. Just be aware that this is a fragile build, and that without a stack of Concentration Mutagens, you'll often need a Vigor refill to finish a fight.


Solid Caster Build
This is my favorite of the builds that don’t rely on a Quen/sword combo. It blends Aard, Igni, and even a little Axii, and it has enough defense bonuses for Geralt to stay in the fight even when out of Vigor.

Strength Mutagens improve survivability, but they can be Basic, and while Impregnation and a respec can help, it isn't necessary at all. See the post below about Armor and Mutagens.

Variations: take a point from Metathesis to get Footwork 2, or drop Catalysis 2 to get Destructive Magic 2 (an especially fine route early if planning to respec) or Berserker plus Control Over the Power if you’re nuts about slotting mutagens.

Training (6): Vigor Regen 2, Parrying, Fortitude 2, Arrow Redir
Magic (10): Aard 2, Quen 1, Magical Vigor 2, Igni 2, Yrden 1, Magical Life Force 1, Sense of Magic 1

then...​

Swords (3): Footwork 1, Position 2
Alchemy (15): Synthesis 1, Potions 1, Catalysis 2 (to max use of Virga and Thunderbolt), Harvester 1, Oils 1, Taster 2, Metathesis 2, Condensation 2, Mutant 1, Amplification 2​

or....​

Swords (18): Footwork 2, Position 2, Whirl 2, Schemer 2, Tough Guy 2, Hardy 1, Sudden Death 1, Invincible 2, Combat Acumen 2, Whirlwind 2​

The Swordsman route generates adrenaline faster than the Alchemy tree (which in turn is faster than adrenaline through sign use). Swordsman also offers the cleave effect through Whirl and 150 more Vitality.

But Alchemy offers 70% more single-target sword damage (55% more if swapping Tough Guy for Violence in the Swordsman tree, trading 15% armor for 15% damage), plus the bonuses from Catalysis.

The end build choice differs most in having Heliotrope up more often (roughly two to three times as much) plus bonus damage fighting groups, versus more damage against each individual target. Both work.

The other consideration is when you want your abilities. Swordsman offers fun skills sooner than Alchemy, and, if starting with Footwork and Position, enables its final skills sooner. The difference is real, perhaps a third of the game.

 

[Ringlin]

Witcher-Mage Gear and Skill Info

How Armor Works
Armor subtracts damage from each physical blows, yours and theirs.

As a rough gauge, Geralt in 'good' armor for his level without any improvements will subtract about a third of enemy damage. Enemies will subtract slightly less (roughly!).​

The more armor you have, the more each additional point is worth, in relative terms.

Say you have 30 armor when your enemies do 70 damage with each blow. If you enter a fight with 200 Vitality, it'll take them 5 blows to kill you (70 damage - 30 armor = 40).
But if you add another 30 points of armor, you now survive not for 5 more hits, but for 20 hits total. (70 - 60 = 10 damage per hit.) By the time you have 30 armor, enemies are likely doing closer to 90 damage, but the idea is the same.
Damage can't be fully eliminated with armor. Enemies can always do what the combat log reports as 'minimal damage,' a small amount that can still add up.​

Damage-Reduction Skills multiply your total armor.
Skills like Tough Guy, Invincible 2, Taster 2, and Amplification multiply their bonus times your cumulative armor, mutagens included.
In the example above, it's easily possible to add another 30 armor to a standard base, by using two of those skills and just 4 Basic Strength Mutagens improved through Impregnation. Even without Impregnation, you could do it by adding two of those skills and 5 Basics, 1 Greater Strength, and 2 armor enhancements.

This doesn't mean that all Witchers always need more armor, but it does mean that even Witcher-Mages can benefit from armor's bonuses. Don't neglect it.


Mutagens

First, the basics:

You can add a Mutagen only once to applicable skills and you can't change or upgrade it.
Impregnation 2 doubles (or triples) the effect of a Mutagen, if you add the mutagen after acquiring Impregnation.
Impregnation makes most Basic mutagens nearly as effective as Greaters. See the list in the link above.
You can respec out of Impregnation and keep the bonuses, but you'll get the benefits only from slotted skills selected in your new build.
The respec is available late in the game, in Chapter 3, through the quest From a Bygone Era. Spoilers in that link.
​

Now the gritty truth: it's a pain to get Greater Mutagens. They drop less often than they did pre-patch, and crafting them is cumbersome.
With the Side Effect 2 skill, you get one about 1 in 10 crafts, so you can craft a bunch of bombs or potions for which you have plentiful ingredients in hopes of getting what you need. But I've found that for every 10 Lesser mutagens, I get about 4 Basics and 1 Greater. That makes about 150 crafts for 1 Greater, and since there are 7 major kinds of mutagens, you need to craft nearly a thousand potions/ bombs/ oils to get 1 Greater mutagen of a particular type, on average.

That's an average. You might get 10 Greaters in a row. I've never seen a Madness Mutagen, yet you might find them falling like rain. Some seem more plentiful than others: I've seen few Concentration mutagens from crafting; that could just be my luck.

Which is best? They all work, though I find Strength and Power Mutagens the most versatile, and Range mutagens least useful. I never expected to like Strength so much, but see the Armor info above for why they are so helpful.

Concentration mutagens need Impregnation 2 to shine. The triple bonus matters.

Critical Effect mutagens have an impact, yet the mysterious mechanics of critical effects make them harder to gauge. Also, the Finesse bonus (and presumably that of Energy Flow) works by multiplying the base critical chance, rather than adding to it (Finesse 2's 15% raises, say, your 20% stun chance to 23%, not to 35%).

Conclusion? It's a pain to plan a build around a particular stack of Greater Mutagens, and none of the builds I've suggested depend on them. (The Aard Crit build requires crit mutagens, but they don't all have to be Greaters). You'll find it much easier to finish your build if you can get by with some Basics, or with more than one type altogether.


Quen
Quen still has situational value for Witcher-mages, but there's no need to have it up all the time, or even most of the time. As noted in the Enhanced Edition change log, it has been 'significantly nerved,' and lasts 'one or two hits' - a real tradeoff for reducing your sword damage (by using a Vigor point) and stalling Vigor regen.

It also doesn't reflect nearly as much damage as implied. The +50% bonus from Quen 2 implies that 50% of the damage taken gets reflected, but that's not so - it's a 50% upgrade to the the damage returned via sign damage, a much smaller number. Magic Intensification improves the duration but not the damage reflected. +Sign Damage abilities, like Destructive Magic, do add to the damage reflected by Quen.


Axii
Axii, the red-headed stepchild of Witcher signs, deserves more love. Players shun it for its long cast time and its higher-than usual resistance rate.

But it has more range than (un-enhanced) Aard or Igni, and its control outlasts Yrden. It makes a good opener for many fights, reducing the number of mobs after you, and though it has a 3-second cast time, it slows the approaching target, and Vigor regen begins from the moment you start casting; with Condensation 2 or Schemer 2, your vigor point returns as soon as you finish your Witcher mind-trick.

It is possible to do a Rock-'em-Sock-'em Robot build with Axii and Yrden, letting mobs do your dirty work, but it's slow and dull. Axii is more fun when used to give you an opening to cast your other signs.


Dagger Throwing
Dagger Throw is a viable alternative to 1 pt in Arrow Redirection. If you can spare the mutagen slot from Arrow Redir, daggers offer a nice ranged option for caster-Witchers out of Vigor.

But they have limitations. They're of most use early, when dagger damage is high relative to your sword and signs, even without the second point in daggers - but that's also you feel the cost. Of the 100 or so daggers you find, most come in Chapter 2, so before that, you have to pay for them: Diagram: Well-Balanced Dagger (Ch 1), plus 10 each (5 for crafting, plus 2 x Iron Ore, Timber worth 5). That's not a big deal later in the game, but it is a factor to balance early on.

A quick note: press and release your throw button to hit an enemy. The Tutorial implies you need to use the (slow, unresponsive) aim system, but unless you're in a contest, that's not so. Just throw.


Catalysis
Catalysis is most notable for the huge reduction in negative side effects, and this enables the use of 4 potions in particular, ones made with ready ingredients (with enough Fulgur, you could include a couple more) . (Toxicity limits their use to 2 at a time, or 1 plus any 2 of the standards: Rook, Wolf, Swallow, Golden Oriole.)

Maribor Forest (+1 Vigor)
Virga (+20% armor, +75% Resistances)
Thunderbolt (+20% dmg)
White Raffard’s Decoction (+50% Vitality)​

White Raffard’s may even be worthwhile without Catalysis if you select Vitality skills, but be aware that it can take a few minutes (really!) to regen a few hundred points, a practical drag even if combined with Swallow or Gadwall.

If those bonuses look worthwhile for your build and style, Catalysis probably is, too. If not, no need.


Adrenaline
Each of the major skill trees includes an adrenaline ability: one that makes you temporarily beefier (Alchemy), one that kills weaker nearby enemies (Swordsman), or slows time (Magic). The Magic one, Heliotrope, is particularly good.

To activate them, you need enough adrenaline, generated in fights. The Magic tree generates adrenaline roughly half as fast as the end-skills of the Alchemy tree, which generates them roughly half as fast as in the Swordsman tree. The exact numbers depend on your play style, but that's a good rough guide.

That means the end-skills of the Magic tree aren't that appealing for adrenaline generation (though one point in a Sense of Magic is great for enabling Heliotrope). You could speed generation with Enhancement mutagens, but even a fuels stack of them won't make Magic generate adrenaline faster than Alchemy nor Alchemy faster than Swordsman.

For Alchemy, the adrenaline bonuses (and damage and armor and vigor bonuses) that occur 'while poisoned' mean 'when you have a least one active potion timer.' A single drink will do. Then again, if you're mad about Heliotrope, the Swordsman tree is your fastest route to recharge.

 

[hugin77]

Excellent guide, Ringlin, as well as the one in your "Missing Manual" post. I wish these were available when I started designing my first build. One of my few gripes with this otherwise excellent game is that the developers either chose or neglected to omit vital details on game mechanics, and in some cases, mislead the players with incorrect/inconsistent descriptions.

One of the areas that has given me a lot of grief is vigor regeneration. I've found almost no guidance in-game or on the web on the matter, so I've had to derive the formulas on my own. Most of my findings are consistent with yours, though I'm concerned with the following statement:

Armor of Ysgith combines with Schemer to equal the bonus of Condensation; it does not stack with Condensation.

As far as I can tell, vigor regeneration on armor does stack with Condensation. Can you please explain the behavior you've experienced? Also, do you have a source (another site or insider knowledge of formulas and/or source code)?

Here is the vigor regeneration formula that I've derived:

Time to generate single vigor point = 1/[(base regen + regen from armor) * Condensation talent * Vigor Regeneration talent * Fortitude talent * Schemer talent * Tawny Owl potion * Lapwing potion * Kayran carapace armor reinforcements] / 2

* base regen is 0.1

I saw a similar formula documented at http://www.gog.com/forum/the_witcher_2/sign_intensity_and_vigor_regeneration, but the author believes that Condensation is treated the same way as regen from armor, which was not the case in my tests. The difference between applying Condensation directly to the base rate vs. treating it as a regular talent/potion is massive, so I wonder if the behavior was patched since the post was written.

Example (Light Leather Armor and no Catalysis talent):

1/[(0.1 + 0.05) * 1.55 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1.4 * 1.2 * 1.5 * 1.15] / 2 = 0.54 sec

Observations:

1. As suggested in your first post, there is a delay before the first vigor point comes back, which appears to be 2 sec. In other words, if you have 5 total vigor points, the time it takes to regenerate all of them is actually 2 + result from above formula * 5, or 2 + 0.54 * 5 = 4.7 sec from the last example. The built-in delay reduces the impact of your vigor regeneration, since it's not affected by it.
2. Armor has a huge impact on regen, since it's applied directly to the base rate. In my example above, Light Leather Armor, a cheap early-game piece, effectively increases your regen by 50%, rather than 5%, as stated in the item's description. This is hugely misleading and has vast implications on build design.
3. I'm still playing the game for the first time and haven't landed a vigor regen sword yet. I'm curious as to whether swords are treated the same way as armor or talents/potions/enhancements.

I derived the above formula by hoarding talents and saving/reloading after having spent them in various ways. I've also tested with and without Light Leather Armor, potions, and enhancements.

Multiple stopwatch trials were done for each combination, with my wife timing vigor regen while I played. Naturally, this isn't the most accurate method due to lag and reaction time delay of 0.15-0.3 sec, but having acquired enough data points, I'm reasonably confident in the conclusions.

Please let me know if you see any issues with the above findings. I'm especially concerned about the interaction between regeneration from armor and Condensation, since you mentioned that they don't stack, yet they seemed to stack predictably in my tests. I'm on the latest patch and playing on Dark mode, in case it matters.

 

[Ringlin]

Hugin, thanks for your good thoughts.

One of my few gripes with this otherwise excellent game is that the developers either chose or neglected to omit vital details on game mechanics, and in some cases, mislead the players with incorrect/inconsistent descriptions.

One of the areas that has given me a lot of grief is vigor regeneration. I've found almost no guidance in-game or on the web on the matter, so I've had to derive the formulas on my own.

Agreed all around. Great game, but some stated mechanics are misleading (like the bonus from Finesse) and others are flat-out wrong, like the description of Impregnation. Vigor is particularly mysterious (and the manual entry doesn't even mention Fatigue!).

>Armor of Ysgith combines with Schemer to equal the bonus of Condensation; it does not stack with Condensation.
As far as I can tell, vigor regeneration on armor does stack with Condensation. Can you please explain the behavior you've experienced? Also, do you have a source (another site or insider knowledge of formulas and/or source code)?​

My information on Vigor comes from one of two places: my own testing, or the stated in-game stats. By the latter, I mean that when your Character pane shows Vigor regen of 0.20, it's roughly half as fast as when it's 0.40. From what I've seen, it appears to be correct.

I believe the Condensation/Ysgith conclusion comes from the former, but I don't have the data. The data of mine that I can still find applies to out-of-combat - more on that in a moment - so if you've seen otherwise for this combo in combat, please let me know and I'll amend the guide. I probably wouldn't change my build to get Condensation, if I went the Swordsman route, but if I went Alchemy, I would keep Armor of Ysgith instead of upgrading to Vran.

>Here is the vigor regeneration formula that I've derived:
Time to generate single vigor point = 1/[(base regen + regen from armor) * Condensation talent * Vigor Regeneration talent * Fortitude talent * Schemer talent * Tawny Owl potion * Lapwing potion * Kayran carapace armor reinforcements] / 2
* base regen is 0.1​

That sounds good (with the 2 sec initial delay), though it's also possible that there are more constants mixed into the formula, as appears to be the case for out-of-combat regen. Out-of-combat, the pattern is very odd: 6 seconds after Geralt's last cast, a second point 3 seconds later, a third 2 seconds after that, then 3 seconds, then 3 seconds (assuming the typical 2 points in Vigor regen in the Training tree). Potions affect that rate, though they don't reduce the first point delay below 5 seconds.

That data comes from (an embarrassingly huge amount of) testing; I wish I could read the code, as the results don't lend themselves to an easy formula. Why is the third point of regen faster than the second? No idea, but it's noticeable and consistent, with and without potions.

Like you, I tried a stopwatch of sorts, but you've tested two things I haven't. First, I played only in Normal and Hard, not Dark Mode, and I also didn't test much with Lapwing, since Fulgur is a more limited ingredient than anything used in Tawny Owl.

 

[Cerbsen]

Nice work... sorry my english is not very good, but here is what i got about the witcher 2 basics so far.

The out-of-combat formula seems to be "2 + ROUNDUP[ ( 1 / vigorRegeneration ) * maxVigor ] seconds",
while the in-combat formula, like you said is "2 + ROUNDUP[ ( 1 / (vigorRegeneration*2) ) * maxVigor ] seconds".

I did some recording @60 fps and counted frames with vdub to compare with my calculations.

legend:
regeneration // amount vigor // total time from 0 - max. // seconds to fill each bar // (skills + items +etc)

out-of-combat:
0,30 reg. - 6 vigor - 23 sec. - 2+4 - 3 - 4 - 3 - 3 - 4 ( base )
0,38 reg. - 6 vigor - 18 sec. - 2+3 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 2 ( Vigor Regeneration )
0,56 reg. - 6 vigor - 13 sec. - 2+2 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 2 ( Vigor Regeneration + Lapwing )
0,67 reg. - 6 vigor - 08 sec. - 2+1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 ( Vigor Regeneration + Lapwing + Tawny Owl + Condensation(2)[0,675*1,55] )

in-combat
multiplikativ: Vigor Regeneration talent, Fortitude, Schemer, Tawny Owl, Lapwing, Kayran reinforcements, Condensation
additiv: "Leichte Leather Armor" +0,05
0,10 reg. - 5 vigor - 28 sec. - 2+5 - 5 - 6 - 5 - 5 ( base ) 6 makes no sense... 3th bar did take 120 frames.
0,20 reg. - 6 vigor - 18 sec. - 2+3 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 3 ( Vigor Regeneration + Fortitude + Schemer ) [0,1925]
0,37 reg. - 6 vigor - 10 sec. - 2+2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 2 ( Vigor Reg. + Fortitude + Schemer + Tawny Owl + Lapwing + Kayran reinforcements+ Condensation(1)[0,364*1,15]
0,51 reg. - 6 vigor - 06 sec. - 2+1 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 0 ( Vigor Reg. + Fortitude + Schemer + Tawny Owl + Lapwing + Condensation(2)[0,519*1,55] + Light Leather Armor

99% accurate formula for "vigor per bar calculation"

base = 1 / [ ( 0,1 + additive ) * multis *2 ]
remain = 0
FOR ( bar = 1 to maxVigor )
{
    next = base - remain
    result.[bar]= ROUNDUP( next )
    remain = result.[bar] - next
}

IGNI
damage = ( 15 * intensity ) + total sign damage boni
most enemies in prologue have 50% resistance and 12,5% under 30% life.
most enemies in act I+ have 10% resistance and 2,5% under 30% life.

AARD
damage = total sign damage boni

YRDEN
duration = 5 + ( 2 * intensity ) seconds

QUEN
duration[1] = 38 sec.
duration[2] = 50 + 15 * intensity
duration[3] = 90 + 27 * intensity
damage = sign damage boni + 1
reflect has no noticable effect