CD Projekt Red are going to have their work cut out to rescue Gwent...

[Jamborinio]

I admit, I've had a love affair with Gwent for the past 4 weeks. I've been off work, and well, it's filled a very big potential boredom problem. I thoroughly enjoyed my early stages rising through the ranks and building a modest collection, though the real standout highlight was an Arena run and in the last game for the all or nothing 9th win, winning the deciding round by a single point! Awesome entertainment! Arena remains a very attactive game mode even now!

However, and this is a big however, now I've reached rank 11, the rest isn't so promising. Let me caveat before I rant, that I understand ranked play and I get why it is the way it is, but for someone who refuses to simply netdeck the best metadeck and join the race to zero, I'm now finding the lack of variety very apparent. I will literally play against the same decks over and over and over and over....

So we have Hidden Cache, clearly the most broken leader ability going, and madam Luiza, Savolla and Saul. How or why is this being allowed to exist for a whole season? Now I simply don't bother to give the opposing player the joy of playing it out and I just quit and move on the next one, GG's not included. Don't get me wrong I have a SY Passiflora deck but I don't have the Redanian ship, Luiza or Savolla and despite it still being very strong, it's not quite the same deal without those cards. But do you know the thing, even though I could just go ahead and craft them, I don't even want to. It's not my deck creation, and I'd feel dirty if I did so.

Then we have poison, and poison is now everywhere. Scoia'tael decks are full of it. NG decks are full of it. Fun? Not really. It's probably the reason tall MO decks are non-existent. Maraal doesn't help here and I'd love to see a tweak to him come the next patch, as well as perhaps a look at how the whole mechanic works.

So, rather naively I thought, 'it's ok I'll simply cut my creative losses in ranked and move into unranked.' Sure, there has definitely been some 'experimental' decks on show and those games have been a blast to play, but over the last week or so, even unranked can't escape the metadecks and I have to ask -- why are people using their metadecks in unranked?

For all the cards that Gwent has, and there are loads, after only 4 weeks of playing it, I am truly amazed at how limited the deck variety is. There are a staggering number of unused cards in Gwent, many of which are epics and legendaries ... it begs the question...

What can be done? Do we think the developers have the (cap)ability to breathe new life into this, or will it simply be a case of after the next patch, Team Leviathan creating a week one tier list and that will be how the next month will play out ad nauseum ...

 

[croloris]

I had the same frustration you had for a while, but abusing the best [fighter, weapons, cards, loadouts, player abilities, occupation cards, corporations, etc] in a game exists in all competitive environments. If the Gwent team wants to fix it, they need look no further than the numerous examples in legalized gambling to do so, but handicapping is usually a full time job, and mostly spent in ccgs balancing new stuff versus new stuff. At the moment, even rebalancing known overpowered leader abilities is a chore for cdpr...and everything comes behind getting out the next expansion and Cyberpunk. So until those tasks are finished, things will N.K play out ad nauseam.

My advice, play the best decks to get to pro rank, then do what you want from there unless you NEED to attain top 500 status.

 

[Allistre]

What can be done? Do we think the developers have the (cap)ability to breathe new life into this

Yes I've often thought Gwent could use a fundemental rework.

Maybe they could remove a row to make the cards bigger. Then take out half the mechanics like shield, armor, crew, duel etc., and slowly add them back into the game in expansions to make them seem new again. Also weather should be less relevant, make it limited to just 1 turn. Also all the cards need to be simplified. there is simply to much strategy atm, Gwent should cast a wide of a net as possible. Lets change 90% of the cards for new new Gwent.

Idk I think all of this could be done in a time frame of say 6 months?

 

[Pacifixer]

Over the past 6 months balance and the amount of viable decks improved a lot, so don't get discouraged by 1 bad season. The meta always gets a bit unbalanced when something new is released, it gets better over time.

Yes I've often thought Gwent could use a fundemental rework.

Maybe they could remove a row to make the cards bigger. Then take out half the mechanics like shield, armor, crew, duel etc., and slowly add them back into the game in expansions to make them seem new again. Also weather should be less relevant, make it limited to just 1 turn. Also all the cards need to be simplified. there is simply to much strategy atm, Gwent should cast a wide of a net as possible. Lets change 90% of the cards for new new Gwent.

Idk I think all of this could be done in a time frame of say 6 months?

I don't want to be mean, but this is nonsense, all of it! You are suggesting the exact opposite of what they should do.

 

[Wuhan_Warrior]

I admit, I've had a love affair with Gwent for the past 4 weeks. I've been off work, and well, it's filled a very big potential boredom problem. I thoroughly enjoyed my early stages rising through the ranks and building a modest collection, though the real standout highlight was an Arena run and in the last game for the all or nothing 9th win, winning the deciding round by a single point! Awesome entertainment! Arena remains a very attactive game mode even now!

However, and this is a big however, now I've reached rank 11, the rest isn't so promising. Let me caveat before I rant, that I understand ranked play and I get why it is the way it is, but for someone who refuses to simply netdeck the best metadeck and join the race to zero, I'm now finding the lack of variety very apparent. I will literally play against the same decks over and over and over and over....

So we have Hidden Cache, clearly the most broken leader ability going, and madam Luiza, Savolla and Saul. How or why is this being allowed to exist for a whole season? Now I simply don't bother to give the opposing player the joy of playing it out and I just quit and move on the next one, GG's not included. Don't get me wrong I have a SY Passiflora deck but I don't have the Redanian ship, Luiza or Savolla and despite it still being very strong, it's not quite the same deal without those cards. But do you know the thing, even though I could just go ahead and craft them, I don't even want to. It's not my deck creation, and I'd feel dirty if I did so.

Then we have poison, and poison is now everywhere. Scoia'tael decks are full of it. NG decks are full of it. Fun? Not really. It's probably the reason tall MO decks are non-existent. Maraal doesn't help here and I'd love to see a tweak to him come the next patch, as well as perhaps a look at how the whole mechanic works.

So, rather naively I thought, 'it's ok I'll simply cut my creative losses in ranked and move into unranked.' Sure, there has definitely been some 'experimental' decks on show and those games have been a blast to play, but over the last week or so, even unranked can't escape the metadecks and I have to ask -- why are people using their metadecks in unranked?

For all the cards that Gwent has, and there are loads, after only 4 weeks of playing it, I am truly amazed at how limited the deck variety is. There are a staggering number of unused cards in Gwent, many of which are epics and legendaries ... it begs the question...

What can be done? Do we think the developers have the (cap)ability to breathe new life into this, or will it simply be a case of after the next patch, Team Leviathan creating a week one tier list and that will be how the next month will play out ad nauseum ...

Meh, I went to rank 0 with a non-meta deck. Started the same time practically as you, early April to be exact.

And yeah, ranked play requires you to play more tactically, build your decks (especially if non meta) more creatively, putting in cards which people would least likely know how to play against, what to expect and often times be caught.

Arena on the other hand purely depends on the luck of your draws as well as the card synergies with one another and your leader ability. It is purely a question of, is my luck better than yours or not. Because not much thinking goes into playing arena other than sequencing your moves, and hoping/praying your opponent doesn't answer your board. This isn't at all the same with ranked.

If you want pure diversity by all means, go arena and test your luck there. If you want to be strategic, but yeah, I know often times it is frustrating to play against certain decks over and over again, you must understand that those particular decks do not draw "the perfect hand" all the time. Keep that in mind, and you can actually reach whichever rank you wanna.

My target was to reach rank 7 tbh to get the 15 RP points. When I manged to push through rank 4-5's with just adding/removing one or two cards in my deck(s), I was surprised how far that actually took me and just went ahead to achieve probably the one thing I would have never dreamt of.

I realized something though, those people posting threads asking this and that to be nerfed are often times stuck in their respective ranks due to being stubborn and lack of flexibility in their plays, deck building strategies, etc. Often times thinking "im the best, so I don't need to change, the game needs to because it's broken af, to accomodate my own needs". A self defense mechanism, purely speaking; If I don't make it to rank 0, it doesnt mean I'm bad at the game, it's because the game is broken.

 

[Jamborinio]

Hmm, so I should just craft the remaining ‘missing’ Sy cards Luiza, Savolla and Redanian Ship that I’ve “stubbornly” refused to do so far, and jump on the bandwagon....

 

[Payus]

Over the past 6 months balance and the amount of viable decks improved a lot, so don't get discouraged by 1 bad season. The meta always gets a bit unbalanced when something new is released, it gets better over time.


I don't want to be mean, but this is nonsense, all of it! You are suggesting the exact opposite of what they should do.

I think he was being sarcastic as this is literally what they did with gwent homecoming after beta.

 

[Wuhan_Warrior]

Hmm, so I should just craft the remaining ‘missing’ Sy cards Luiza, Savolla and Redanian Ship that I’ve “stubbornly” refused to do so far, and jump on the bandwagon....

I don't know about you, but like I said, and I will say it again, I went to 0 with non meta.

And it's because of those meta decks like whatever you quoted that I owe my huge thanks to.

I believe in what they say; a picture speaks a thousand words. So here you go.

I have other stats too, for monsters and sociatel but I only played those until I reached like ranks 3-4's, as I don't have the resources to craft the cards I need to improve them further, as I started only in early Apr.

 

[Jamborinio]

All that picture tells me is you win as Nilfgaard. That’s hardly rare or very informative. Of all factions Nilfgaard probably has the most variety and consequently is the hardest to predict as a result. As much as I dislike playing against poison and enslave decks, I do admire Nilfgaard’s options in relation to deck creation. You can see that simply through the tier lists where they appear to have more entries than any other.

 

[Wuhan_Warrior]

All that picture tells me is you win as Nilfgaard. That’s hardly rare or very informative. Of all factions Nilfgaard probably has the most variety and consequently is the hardest to predict as a result. As much as I dislike playing against poison and enslave decks, I do admire Nilfgaard’s options in relation to deck creation. You can see that simply through the tier lists where they appear to have more entries than any other.

Yeah like I said I started in early of April dude. I'm not superman and I don't have enough RP's and scraps to maintain competitive decks for all 3 factions. I played both monsters and sociatel all the way to ranks 4-5. Then I took a liking to NG and started my own deck with whatever I got from my kegs.

What I was trying to say in my previous post was this; if you wanna copy the meta, go right ahead. But know that no deck is "super godlike" or "super OP" that no other decks will be able to beat it. (that's like how a kid who found his dad's gun will behave/think). Savolla, Luizna, Redanian Ship, etc in SY are good cards, but they are not gonna win you the game or help you rank up if you don't first learn how to play them proper, period.

Edit: Here you go the "other" stats. So you know I also have "other decks" which I play. Not just the overhyped or OP NG. So I guess you might say next is, ST, NG and Monsters are OP and in need of nerfs too right?

Oh and I don't even play the scenario in NG, before you go on telling everyone how OP or imba that thing is.

 

[Allistre]

I don't want to be mean, but this is nonsense, all of it! You are suggesting the exact opposite of what they should do

You're not being mean. That was the normal reaction.

 

[Guest 4398794]

Often times thinking "im the best, so I don't need to change, the game needs to because it's broken af, to accomodate my own needs". A self defense mechanism, purely speaking; If I don't make it to rank 0, it doesnt mean I'm bad at the game, it's because the game is broken.

Ok mate. So basically you say there are no broken cards and/or combos in the game, just players are lazy to come up with counters to uncounterable strategies.

I don't mind to lose to hidden cache, or skelige, but when a NG deck plays 5-6 cards in one turn and Poison my entire battlefield in 2 turns , well that's STR8 UP BROKEN, and I can't do nothing about it just watch in pain.

Why you have to [ . . . ] say other players are stupid and too lazy to adept , but not you because you know what is your next opponent and you just switch 2 cards in your deck to counter whatever!?

Or you just forget that not every player has all the cards yet to adept properly, because they still have to grind their way to more better cards?
[ . . . ] please don't assume you know everyone in the world so well and you are the only one who knows how this game works.

 

[Hiperon]

There is really nice balance here.

For all the cards that Gwent has, and there are loads, after only 4 weeks of playing it, I am truly amazed at how limited the deck variety is. There are a staggering number of unused cards in Gwent, many of which are epics and legendaries ... it begs the question...

• Hidden cache is broken now BUT it's a new thing. Of course some skill will be unbalanced, for just one month. ONE MONTH.
• Each month there is new meta because of changes. This month I see no monster Arachas Swarm anymore! And it's not even because they nerfed it. It's because meta changed from control to engine. And engines kill pointslam. With meta change to control arachas swarm will be back.
• 2-3 months ago we had swarm of harmony decks. They nerfed it a little. Than, since it was incredible strong, again. In the end people switched to elves with two flavors - precision strike and Deadeye Ambush, with, or rarely without scenario. And you know what happend? With change of meta, not POWER of cards, they didnt change echo, nor precision strike nor deadeye ambush, but META changed (more engines less removal/pointslam) Mystic Echo with harmony is back! Full circle! It's incredible! You got 3 full valiable decks in elves right now, just one fit meta better than others RIGHT NOW.
• With new incredible strong NR ability (to strong?) we saw some engine decks. But that didn't work so good. So pro players did the Draug. OH, that was boom! Incredible combination and use of ability with a little unintended way. But does meta stopped? NO! Now the strongest one is probably swarm deck! We had 3 different decks with one ability in one month without changing anything. Would meta still change? Don't know. But in one week there will be patch so it will for sure change again. And you know what? Engine decks are still valiable in pro rank. Not as good, but some good players have fun with it.
• On Skellige we have at least 3 valiable meta decks. Lippy deck (incredible strong but I think draw dependent?) Second wind with few flavors (Gretsword/Two blades, almost always wild boar but more or less Bloodthirsty dependent) and standard engine deck with ursine ritual. Oh, and I forgot, of course pointslam with scenario is still valiable, even more than before. It's quite good! But you know why it's not played that much and a little worse than before? BECAUSE META CHANGED! Not cards, meta changed so pointslam is in retreat.
• I can't even start to count how many different valiable decks Nilfgaard have, but I guess also 2-3 meta worth.
• About Syndicate. Yes, cache is incredible, to strong, op, need nerf. But I see lots of GREAT congregate decks! If you don't want to go cache, maybe try this way, it works incredible against some enemies. And worse against others, I think it's enemy deck dependant.

Look, and please read what I said. I want you to stick a little longer here. Maybe play just few games a day, but for next year, not just week. And you will see how fast everything is changing.

Yes, we have broken cache.
Yet still we have so many good decks!
You are on level where people trying to climb just netdeck one deck, learn it at that's it. Come up, come to us in pro rank. Here you NEED TO do your best (meme decks will die fast) but same time you are encourage to experiment. Netdecks will be learned quickly, everyone know their good and bad sides and will build to counter them. Strongest netdecks are swarming us too, but not that much. Also here you need to play 4 different factions do gain points, so you can't stick to just cache.

There always will be best deck in current meta, that's like... idea of meta. Fighting against it is like saying "I don't like that 2+2 = 4". But I'm amazed how many decks are strong enough to be competitive. And there is even more decks, valiable to resurface, without buffs or nerfs, waitingjsut for meta to change.

Right now we are mostly in engine meta. And It's meta I like to play most in it as one or against. Pointslam is nice but quite straightforward and control... Well I hate it. There is just nothing you can interact with. But it have to be here and sometimes it need to come back as main meta.

And again and again, yes, cache is to strong. You can either learn to play against it (it IS possible) or use it to full extend. And it will sooner or later be fixed.

 

[Wuhan_Warrior]

Ok mate. So basically you say there are no broken cards and/or combos in the game, just players are lazy to come up with counters to uncounterable strategies.

I don't mind to lose to hidden cache, or skelige, but when a NG deck plays 5-6 cards in one turn and Poison my entire battlefield in 2 turns , well that's STR8 UP BROKEN, and I can't do nothing about it just watch in pain.

Why you have to [ . . . ] say other players are stupid and too lazy to adept , but not you because you know what is your next opponent and you just switch 2 cards in your deck to counter whatever!?

Or you just forget that not every player has all the cards yet to adept properly, because they still have to grind their way to more better cards?
[ . . . ] please don't assume you know everyone in the world so well and you are the only one who knows how this game works.

[ . . . ]

Your choice of deck will have weaknesses, but it will have strengths too.

[ . . . ]

Again, I don't know who are you and where you came from. You don't deserve to take the high road, especially if you ain't showing anything other than ranting.

Instead of saying how broken whatever is, maybe you can use your eyes and look into the stats which I gave. How is it I have a high winrate against broken cache?? Because my deck(s) are OP too??

Oh wait, lets do this maybe. Let's propose for CDPR to ban every pro rank players at the end of the season so that the newbs (esp. with private profiles) can go create jolly feel good decks and enjoy thrashing other newcomers to the game? How's that sound?

For the record, I don't even play SY. And since I just started this game in early April, I will reserve my comments about how it being OP for those who clearly know what they are talking about. As I mentioned, I don't even have problems with SY. Sure I don't like a match with them, because I find they usually have a ton of answers to a whole lot of things, but, I guess my stats speaks for itself. At rank 0, my main problem is SY congregrate decks, FYI. But you won't see my whining about it.

 

[4RM3D]

A few posts edited. Please, remember the forum regulations:

When perusing the forums, you will often find people passionately expressing their opinions, which may differ from yours. Regardless of these differences, please, keep the following basic rules in mind:

• always treat others with kindness and respect
• do not insult others and try not to easily take offense

 

[Wuhan_Warrior]

[ . . . ]

My intentions are actually to get these forums to at least be more constructive in nature. I doubt any reasonable person likes to listen to some other rantings, frustrations etc and therefore degenerates the content of the forums and possibly jeopardize the enjoyment some parties (including myself) get from playing the game at its current state- possibly due to CDPR's changing of certain mechanics, etc to cater for them.

If the crux of the content of the forums are all just for angry and frustrated people ranting, I would prefer to take my leave.

Anyway, apologies if my post sounds offensive but I'm just very passionate about the game. And I hope this game doesn't get "dumbed down" because of certain people.

 

[4RM3D]

A few posts deleted for going off-topic and on a personal skirmish. That's quite enough now. No more warnings. Next person gets a time-out.

 

[MeCawl]

I absolutely agree with you that there are far too many unusable cards in the game currently. For a while, Gwent was in a state where a single deck could shift the meta entirely, and this could happen multiple times all within just one patch. While I think the state of the game isn't as bad as people try to make it out to be, I definitely agree that something has to be done with many of the pieces in play.

Some of my biggest complaints would probably be Poison and Artifacts becaues they are so binary - but even without changing those, there are a lot of adjustments that can be made to cards already in the game which would result in an absolute net positive. Cards like 'Dandeion: Veinglory' ALWAYS pop into my mind immediately, because it's the absolute pinnacle of horrible design: A card that has only one ability which only works in one niche that isn't even worth pursuing.

A lot of cool cards were also replaced - old Avallac'h was changed from giving a unit Immune. I understand that this couldn't have remained with Defenders being added, but the new ability? Creating a weather? Yes, sure, it's a very useful ability, and I don't even dislike it: but to give it to Avallac'h? And then give his old ability (or rather, ability type) to a new card in an upcoming expansion? It feels like a really bad idea. That being said, I don't actually mind the current Avallac'h since I'm a strong believer in the idea of having multiple ways of achieving a similar objective, i.e. playing Avallac'h OR Scepter of Storms OR a weather from your hand. My point here is: The old ability was a lot more interesting and opened up a myriad of interesting combos, whereas this new one is extremely binary.

I truly believe in the Gwent team and Gwent as a game, and I'm certainly sure they're aware of the issues and simply foresee other problems our solutions might cause in the long run, but I truly believe CDPR need to take a good look at our suggestions and really think about them.

 

[EvanDavidson]

Huge problem with the game - THE PACE. It takes forever to just get through a game.