CD Projekt Red Please Change the Commander's Horn Card

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CD Projekt Red Please Change the Commander's Horn Card

I don't think I'm the only person who finds this card to be far too powerful and far too much of a game changer in game, that helps people with their cheese plays. I was watching a streamer last night who controlled games so well but then lost many matches pretty much on the last turn because the opponent played, what was deemed in the chat room by over 180 people as being the 'Toot' play. The general feeling amongst everyone viewing the stream and the player themself was that the Commander's Horn should be made a Gold Card, to balance the game better by basically making the opponent have to sacrifice another Gold Card from their Deck to be able to run it.
 
You can D-Bomb once if you are lucky to have the card. However most times this isn't an option as the opponent waits to play the Horn until the last turn. Even more annoying is when the opponent does that exploit of being able to replay it or duplicate it, so he gets two Toots which should never happen as it's meant to be a Silver Card so limited to only one per deck.
 
cwattyeso;n7161390 said:
You can D-Bomb once if you are lucky to have the card. However most times this isn't an option as the opponent waits to play the Horn until the last turn. Even more annoying is when the opponent does that exploit of being able to replay it or duplicate it, so he gets two Toots which should never happen as it's meant to be a Silver Card so limited to only one per deck.

i wont be possible to duplicate after the patch.

Also, if its used as last card and thus gets uncounterable, it wasnt commanders horn which wins the game, it was card advantage.
 
As Laveley said, using it several time won't be possible like that next week. Not sure ST will not be able to Nature gift it tho, since it's creating a copy of the latest played special card in the description, not resurrecting the last played special card, so technically it being fleeting or not should not impact that but.... Well, we'll see.
I agree that it was ridiculous though.
 
Watching a Twitch Streamer called RSMerchant tonight and again the use of the Horn is probably the most unskilled play, yet is so rewarding. Sorry but a card that can cause a 40 point swing on the last turn of a round/match is seriously OP. I believe it should be made a Gold Special and have a Turn Timer added to it before the horn activates. That would stop and prevent people from hanging onto it until their last card, and give you time to counter it if you have the cards. The same thing I believe about that Geralt Igni card the fact it has 6 Strength and a Target Scorch is so OP, I know CD Projket Red require the target row to be 20 strength now and not 15, but that's not really a nerf. Again adding a Turn Timer to this card would balance it a bit and make it fairer. If you can remove you get a chance to, if not you still get Scorched.
 
No, clearly no. Like Laveley said we will end up with a game that got nerfed to oblivion. All the cards you mentionend are fine imho. Commanders Horn can have a huge swing, yes, but so can others. D-Bomb, War Cry, Scorch. And all of them are counterable or need an investment. In the end, every card that has a global effect can swing a game if it is the last card played, and then what won the game is not the card itself, but the card advantage.

situation 1: last card in game : commanders horn -> toooooooot -> win
situation 2: opponent has the card advantage: uses commanders horn as well -> win or uses d-bomb ->win

You even mentionend geralt:igni, which is a direct counter to commanders horn. To get the full effect of the horn, you either have to invest in a single row with a lot of little units or with one strong unit. -> lacerate, venom, scorch , geralt:igni at the right moment and the buff will hit less hard. Borkh even counters commanders horn withouth the card advantage. On the other hand: if you don't wanna get scorched hard, don't buff only a single unit but spread your points.

Hell, commanders horn might even be utterly usesless if you draw it in the third round and don't have anymore normal units to buff.

I hope now that the biggest exploits are taken care of, CDPR will start balancing by buffing other cards and introduce counters to some cards, instead of just nerfing everything because then we will end up playing a pretty boring game.
 
cwattyeso;n7169690 said:
Watching a Twitch Streamer called RSMerchant tonight and again the use of the Horn is probably the most unskilled play, yet is so rewarding. Sorry but a card that can cause a 40 point swing on the last turn of a round/match is seriously OP. I believe it should be made a Gold Special and have a Turn Timer added to it before the horn activates. That would stop and prevent people from hanging onto it until their last card, and give you time to counter it if you have the cards. The same thing I believe about that Geralt Igni card the fact it has 6 Strength and a Target Scorch is so OP, I know CD Projket Red require the target row to be 20 strength now and not 15, but that's not really a nerf. Again adding a Turn Timer to this card would balance it a bit and make it fairer. If you can remove you get a chance to, if not you still get Scorched.

I have seen a couple of his videos (not streams) and he is quite average player. And opponents showed on his videos are mostly just weak. He has a great (like in the radio) voise tho, I give him that.But back to commander's horn. It is great card when you know WHEN to and HOW to used. Waiting with it to the last round isn't always the best solution. What is more, green buffs can me countered in so many ways (d-bomb, weather, igni, scorch, philippa etc.) One more thing, you need to have something to use with horn. If you have not, or only units <10str then commander's horn isn't as agreat, does it?

One the most important thing. In general, the great combo/move/tactic/way to win for all factions you can prepare is gaining the card advantage. All cards you mentioned, no matter if igni or horn or d-bomb. I the opponent has a card advantage and he/she knows how to use his/her deck, you will probably lose (not always of course, but most probably).
 
I don't think one Horn is a problem. It was a problem when you could lay down several of them in one round, because all buff cards in Gwent give you a linear progression, i.e they add p * n points, where p is the number of points the card grants and n the number of times you play it. But the Horn grants you an exponential progression, that is you multiply by 2^n, where n is the number of times you play it.

An exponential buff system has no place in a game that is otherwise linear, even if it is possible to counter it.
 
Horn is something we haven't really been happy with a long time.

Its kind of a core card from Witcher 3 version of Gwent so we are reluctant to change it, making it fleeting was a first step and we will see how things play out from here :)
 
Rethas;n7172770 said:
Horn is something we haven't really been happy with a long time.

Its kind of a core card from Witcher 3 version of Gwent so we are reluctant to change it, making it fleeting was a first step and we will see how things play out from here :)

I think a few people have made very valued points that in Witcher 3 where you are only playing against an AI that the Commander's Horn was a fun card and useful one for ensuring you could win matches and progress within quests and the game. However now Gwent is an actual game pitting Human Players against each other, this card probably really has no place within the game with the function it performs. Perhaps maybe the Horn should be the first card that is considered for retirement from the game, that way no faction within the game will be greatly benefited or disadvantaged by it and there wouldn't be so much hostility and rage towards people who use it to get 'Cheap' victories.
 
tortugueta;n7172750 said:
I don't think one Horn is a problem. It was a problem when you could lay down several of them in one round, because all buff cards in Gwent give you a linear progression, i.e they add p * n points, where p is the number of points the card grants and n the number of times you play it. But the Horn grants you an exponential progression, that is you multiply by 2^n, where n is the number of times you play it. An exponential buff system has no place in a game that is otherwise linear, even if it is possible to counter it.

So now it has the fleeting category and it will not be used twice or more in one match.

cwattyeso;n7173560 said:
Perhaps maybe the Horn should be the first card that is considered for retirement from the game, that way no faction within the game will be greatly benefited or disadvantaged by it and there wouldn't be so much hostility and rage towards people who use it to get 'Cheap' victories.

Isengrim bomb or Olgierd/Roach >40str gold - those were (so glad it is the past) "Cheap victories". But horn is ok in my opinion in present build. It is the only one and there is plenty of cards which can deal with it.
 
Keymaker7;n7173690 said:
But horn is ok in my opinion in present build. It is the only one and there is plenty of cards which can deal with it.

Not if you have already had to use your Scorch and Dimeritium Bomb Cards already.

 
cwattyeso;n7173730 said:
Not if you have already had to use your Scorch and Dimeritium Bomb Cards already.

"Had to use" so maybe make opponent to use his horn earlier? If opp could saved horn for the last, you can save answer for it.
 
cwattyeso;n7173730 said:
Not if you have already had to use your Scorch and Dimeritium Bomb Cards already.

I['ve never had any problems with Horn so you must be doing something wrong. You need to learn to time your debuffs not too late, not too early. Same with removing opposing units. It's all about tactics..
 
I really don't think that Command Horn is such problem. Sure it is really swingy card, but there are counters to it and you need invest a lot to single row to get best bonus and that could be risky. I'm afraid that by removing all similar card like Horn and Dbomb we could get really boring version of Gwent. Imagine everybody will play just units with 8 / 10 / 12 power without ability. Now it will finally not matter who will play last and there would not be swingy situations, but where would be fun in this?

I even don't play Horn in most of my decks. Personally I find Decoy much more problematic, because card advantage is so important, this card is autoinclude to all decks.
 
Isi23_23;n7173910 said:
Personally I find Decoy much more problematic, because card advantage is so important, this card is autoinclude to all decks.

Not in mine as I have yet to acquire the 800 Scraps needed to craft it.
 
I'm 1OO% agree with cwattyeso. So far the game is amazing and I think the balance is well done overall but the Commander's horn is just ridiculously stupid.

And I'm sorry to say but this is pretty much impossible to say otherwise. It's not only OP but it's also a massive obstacle to creation when you want to make a deck since you're going to lose a significant amount of game just because you made the choice of not playing it. This card is currently played by pretty much every single person online, no matter what faction they play or what tactic they're going for (I've seen some peoples playing this card in control decks and win games) and generally speaking, Gwent is going to turn into CH city if it stays in it's current state.

This card is the biggest swing in the game, it must require a very selective set up in order to work. As it is today, you can win just by CHing Eredin as your last move (I did it....multiple times).

And yes, the card has it's counter, that's completely true. Yet, if you don't draw them or are down on cards it's an auto lose unless you're playing extrem control decks.
Again, the problem of this card is not directly how powerful it is but how easily you can win using it without setting up anything or thinking at all. Gwent is a tactical game and should remain like this.

Also keep in mind, this is the beggining of the game, peoples haven't find the worst way of abusing this card yet. For example Brouver can tutor it, Monsters can smash it on a board and be guaranteed to keep 2O+ creatures on the board for the next round....Those things are not very common just yet but once it will fall into everyone's ears I'm pretty sure a lot of peoples will be sick of this card.
 
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