CDPR hires Ubisoft writer as lead writer for Project Orion

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Ffs, she wrote for one Ubisoft game. ONE. And barely anyone has criticized the story in that one. This is just click-bait outrage farm.
Most of the writers of the Witcher game series and Cyberpunk 2077 didn't have previous writing credits at all and this woman has 6 high-profile games under her belt. How about we just wait and see instead of screaming bloody murder?
Yup, show me a "universally acclaimed" story and I'll show you a thousand people who dislike it. No story will ever please everyone, it's unavoidable.
Well, it's depends on what we consider "universal acclaim" - if it is used as writing standard, but most people haven't seen/read/played it, than number of those who dislike it would also be pretty low. With great popularity, however, comes a big number of haters.
 
As long as it's not Sam Winkler*, I'm not too worried about the story of Orion. Especially considering that there should still be overlap with the original CP2077 writing and creative team, which can help any writer coming into the groove of the universe.

*Lead writer for Borderlands 3 and New Tales from the Borderlands, which both had bad to terrible stories, inconsistent or badly paced tonality and didn't let the player catch a break between over the top jokes, lacking any comedic nuance the previous entries in the Borderlands series had. He also directly antagonized the fanbase and gamers as a whole and throws accusations like "Nazi" at everyone that doesn't like his approach to storytelling.
 
Well, it's depends on what we consider "universal acclaim" - if it is used as writing standard, but most people haven't seen/read/played it, than number of those who dislike it would also be pretty low. With great popularity, however, comes a big number of haters.

While I agree with what you're saying, I really wasn't speaking about numbers or definition of anything.

I was really just agreeing with @LeKill3rFou and expanding on his point a bit. Because even if you take a show as widely acclaimed as say, Breaking Bad, which is the highest rated show of all time, there are still plenty who didn't like it.

Even if society agreed on what is the perfect story and hypothetical game X checked all these boxes, there woulld still be thousands saying it sucks and telling everyone how they think it doesn't check all the boxes and is therefore not perfect and sucks.

It's just how it works. There is no use in trying to please everyone because it can't be achieved.

Orion will be no different. Even if Anna and her team(s) wrote the best Cyberpunk story in the history of the entire genre, not just this world but the entire genre. There would still be people saying it's terrible.
 
Orion will be no different. Even if Anna and her team(s) wrote the best Cyberpunk story in the history of the entire genre, not just this world but the entire genre. There would still be people saying it's terrible.
100%. And typically without bothering to support their aspersions. "It's bad." "It's mid." "Boring."

Even "too much talking" would be a rare exception to the stream of "game sucks" we will get regardless. Same as for Witcher 2 and 3 and, well, pretty much any game. Indies get a moderate pass, sometimes. You might only see the rare "meh" about a popular indie game, but most people love an underdog and many "hate on" the people who provide them with the AA and AAA they want.
 
Hey,
I am wondering about what the next cyberpunk game will actually be like :)

Imagine if CDPR decided to change many elements set in 77; update NC to the new game's timeline or even move away from it somewhere else :O
Imagine the possible innovation/thematic change they can bring!

For example - in 77, V rises to heavenly heights to get rid of the relic - there's a repeating pattern of getting more and more involved - Dex, Evelynn, VBs, Netwatch, Arasaka, NUSA,...

What about if the new game was about the opposite? - falling and trying to not fall much deeper? Not about saving yourself by any means and for any cost, but by...doing what's humanly right - for all involved as well - and possibly accepting a bad outcome for yourself if it would mean a happy ending for others...? And not being powerful at all?!

What if the game was much less about being a renowned merc who gets in conflict with mega-corporations and takes jobs from big players, but more about living at the bottom - the streets? Getting along with people of all kinds, solving unique problems they have to deal with, etc...
Being no one to the end, yet still somehow being able to achieve a many grounded things?!
 
I don't know what tomorrow will bring with CP, but it's going to be in UE instead of RED, it's going to be a difference dev group, it's going to be developed in a different country (which means a different culture as the driving force), and it's going to be a different writing team.

The "follow-up" to CP'77 (Orion) is almost guaranteed to be different. I suspect it will be radically different. (I kinda hope there's a brief, short {cheaper} interlude game that 1] tests some of the mechanics of the new style before going full-featured with Orion and 2] prepares players for a completely new CP style.)

As for a non-hero in Orion... I dunno. The only real non-hero I enjoyed so far is Roger Wilco. Throughout the Space Quest series until V, he was nobody and liked it just fine—just wanting a quiet place to sleep on the job so his bosses wouldn't find him, but stumbling into saving the galaxy time and time again despite all his efforts (until his son from the future sold him on being more than he was at the end if IV and he decided to get his Captain's certification... on which he cheated... and still failed, but a rat-like creature shorted out the grading machine when it was grading his written exam... to which he was late in starting because he was playing around in a ship's simulator... and we don't talk about the non-Roman-numeral 6 in the series).

Unless it's for kicks and grins, a non-hero is better for survival games where there's no ultimate heroic goal.

A narrative can start with nobody ("anyone can be a hero" trope) but needs to let players become important... at least for a while. CP'77, in all but two endings (3 with PL), V ends up important to some people, and before any endings, V is important to several people (the number of whom can vary depending on V's choices). In two lifepaths, V starts as nobody. In the 3rd, V quickly becomes nobody before the game kicks off proper.

Heh. What if Orion ends up turn-based like the tabletop game.:ROFLMAO:

(Doubtful that'll happen. UE's capable, but I think even CP tabletop makes demands that must be realized differently in the video game medium.)
 
Personally, I wouldn't expect a "radically different" game, at all. A different story, that's for sure. But overall, a similar game ;)
It could be interesting for it to be put more into the extremes - crazier weapons, cosmetic styles, crazier gangs, more living streets,... - in the style of illustrations of the books/games like 2020,...

One way to make the city feel more alive could be "micro quests" or like more short ways to learn/achieve/... something - e.g. like it was in the quest in Kabuki in the beginning with the policewoman - talk to people with different life paths, check the environment (there was an opening via a window), learn the door code,...pretty amazing :)
 
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Be aware that expectations are a dangerous thing in this industry. People originally expected BG3 to be BG1/2. People expected DA2 to be DA:O and DA:I to be DA2... none of which happened. People are expecting DA: DW to be DA:I, but given DA's history, it can easily be something completely different.

The only thing I expect to be similar is the setting. I'd rather unbind the devs hands to let them do what they want, similar or not to an existing predecessor.

Then again, I'm good with anthologies where the stories in the same universe can be very different in style of storytelling. One is a first-person journal. The next is social intrigue telling parallel stories of several people. The next is someone's testimony of past events constantly getting interrupted for questions. It's all good as long as it's good.
 
Be aware that expectations are a dangerous thing in this industry. People originally expected BG3 to be BG1/2. People expected DA2 to be DA:O and DA:I to be DA2... none of which happened. People are expecting DA: DW to be DA:I, but given DA's history, it can easily be something completely different.
But...
- It remains CDPR, who already stated they will keep making "story-driven open-world" games (no chance for a isometric turn based CRPG^^)
- CDPR have a partnership with Epic (Unreal Engine) and won't simply use the engine like most studios. But CDPR will also help to improve Unreal Engine (helping Epic to make things CDPR need for their games possible. Things which might currently not...)
- Some of "old" guys who worked on Cyberpunk 2077. Guys like Pawel Sasko (associate game director on Orion) or Patrick K. Mills (Cyberpunk Lore & Franchise guy) who moved in Boston studio.
- CDPR and Boston studio will still working with Mike Pondsmith & R.Talsorian for Orion like they did with Cyberpunk 2077.

So again, I don't expect a different game, at all ;)
 
I don't know what tomorrow will bring with CP, but it's going to be in UE instead of RED, it's going to be a difference dev group, it's going to be developed in a different country (which means a different culture as the driving force), and it's going to be a different writing team.
Too many things will be different at their core during Orion's development. Similar is relative. There will be familiar things but there will also be a lot of things that will simply be different. I would never want to ask a wholly new group to try to replicate something someone else did in another engine. I hope CDPR is thinking the same thing.
 
But...
- It remains CDPR, who already stated they will keep making "story-driven open-world" games (no chance for a isometric turn based CRPG^^)
- CDPR have a partnership with Epic (Unreal Engine) and won't simply use the engine like most studios. But CDPR will also help to improve Unreal Engine (helping Epic to make things CDPR need for their games possible. Things which might currently not...)
- Some of "old" guys who worked on Cyberpunk 2077. Guys like Pawel Sasko (associate game director on Orion) or Patrick K. Mills (Cyberpunk Lore & Franchise guy) who moved in Boston studio.
- CDPR and Boston studio will still working with Mike Pondsmith & R.Talsorian for Orion like they did with Cyberpunk 2077.

So again, I don't expect a different game, at all ;)

100% this.

And if I may add, from everything we know, the guys calling the shots in Boston are all CDPR vets.

New additions are completely normal and it's entirely possible to keep your "old country's" work culture in a different country.

No real reason to expect a radically different game at this point in time in my opinion.
 
Not sure where this notion comes from that a writer (or any other employee really) hired by CDPR(i.e. PAID BY CDPR) remains this free spirit, unbound by any expectations, requirements, ethics, social & cultural norms in the company etc.

If they hired her it means they decided her work has more of a chance to benefit CP2077 franchise than to ruin it.

Hiring process in CDPR also involves some practical excercises, where you're given tasks related to your work and need to prove yourself. So I can imagine they not only assessed her previous works but also gave her some stuff to write which fits their vision of the game. Or something like that.

So yeah she might be leading the writers team but still her/their work will still be assessed in terms of overall vision for Orion.
 
Quoting a second time - again, straight from the horse's mouth:

What does a lead writer do?

AM: It varies from studio to studio. My job as a lead writer is to help my team do their best writing, help them grow as writers, help them stay on tone, stay true to the lore of the project. We all have a vision presented to us by the creative director. It's our job to help realize that vision. A big part of my job is just ensuring that we're following that vision and the path that the creative director has laid out for us, and that the writers are doing their best work. I'm like a mediator between the writers and the creative director's vision.


It might be slightly different at CDPR, but it's probably pretty much the same thing. There's stuff that Pawel has said that lines up with that quote (making sure each team "stays on theme", to paraphrase him). Also I'm not sure they'll have a "writer's team" as such, as they'll be working in "pods" i.e. groups that consist of a smörgåsbord of all the talent you need (e.g. that could be: a couple writers, cinematics, quest design, enviro art, engineers, etc., all in one team). That's how it was for PL, as opposed to the base game, where each discipline was silo'd off (something like a cinematics team, an enviro art team, etc., all separated).

So, Anna's job is probably going to involve her going in and out of every pod, checking in, and basically making sure whatever writing each pod produces is staying in line with the vision that's (presumably) laid out by Igor (the creative director). In practice, I wouldn't be surprised if she directly contributes some writing here and there, but presumably the bulk of it is going to be from the writers in those pods.

Also, I imagine the vision presented by Igor will be the result of conversations between himself and Gabe, Pawel, Anna, Mike Pondsmith, etc., etc. Like, probably all of the directors and leads are chatting away, throwing ideas back and forth at this stage. Or maybe it's him going off into a cabin in the woods alone and emerging months later, fully bearded, with the ultimate bestest idea ever conceived? Or maybe a mixture of both, lol.

Also worth bearing in mind is that the devs are supposed to be really empowered. They've talked about a "Yes, and?" approach, meaning they're encouraged to be as creative as they want, as long as it's in keeping with the vision. E.g. a quest designer in a pod might have a crazy idea, and Sarah (acting lead quest designer) likely won't say "no" unless there's an extremely good reason to do so; it's more likely going to be a "yes, and?" with some guidance/direction to keep it in line with the overall vision. Anna will presumably be following that same culture with the writers in the various pods.

So basically the directors/leads sound like... gardeners? They're going around watering the plants I guess. In any case, this approach is one of the main reasons Phantom Liberty was so damn gooood.

If anyone's interested in hearing more about this kind of stuff, you can watch some of the lead devs talking about it here:
 
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Quoting a second time - again, straight from the horse's mouth:

What does a lead writer do?

AM: It varies from studio to studio. My job as a lead writer is to help my team do their best writing, help them grow as writers, help them stay on tone, stay true to the lore of the project. We all have a vision presented to us by the creative director. It's our job to help realize that vision. A big part of my job is just ensuring that we're following that vision and the path that the creative director has laid out for us, and that the writers are doing their best work. I'm like a mediator between the writers and the creative director's vision.


It might be slightly different at CDPR, but it's probably pretty much the same thing. There's stuff that Pawel has said that lines up with that quote (making sure each team "stays on theme", to paraphrase him). Also I'm not sure they'll have a "writer's team" as such, as they'll be working in "pods" i.e. groups that consist of a smörgåsbord of all the talent you need (e.g. that could be: a couple writers, cinematics, quest design, enviro art, engineers, etc., all in one team). That's how it was for PL, as opposed to the base game, where each discipline was silo'd off (something like a cinematics team, an enviro art team, etc., all separated).

So, Anna's job is probably going to involve her going in and out of every pod, checking in, and basically making sure whatever writing each pod produces is staying in line with the vision that's (presumably) laid out by Igor (the creative director). In practice, I wouldn't be surprised if she directly contributes some writing here and there, but presumably the bulk of it is going to be from the writers in those pods.

Also, I imagine the vision presented by Igor will be the result of conversations between himself and Gabe, Pawel, Anna, Mike Pondsmith, etc., etc. Like, probably all of the directors and leads are chatting away, throwing ideas back and forth at this stage. Or maybe it's him going off into a cabin in the woods alone and emerging months later, fully bearded, with the ultimate bestest idea ever conceived? Or maybe a mixture of both, lol.

Also worth bearing in mind is that the devs are supposed to be really empowered. They've talked about a "Yes, and?" approach, meaning they're encouraged to be as creative as they want, as long as it's in keeping with the vision. E.g. a quest designer in a pod might have a crazy idea, and Sarah (acting lead quest designer) likely won't say "no" unless there's an extremely good reason to do so; it's more likely going to be a "yes, and?" with some guidance/direction to keep it in line with the overall vision. Anna will presumably be following that same culture with the writers in the various pods.

So basically the directors/leads sound like... gardeners? They're going around watering the plants I guess.

If anyone's interested in hearing more about this kind of stuff, you can watch some of the lead devs talking about it here:

In all honesty, it's not a new phenomenon either. It's something people have always believed of leads in the industry. People just don't know what these roles entails and they just imagine the leads are calling every shot and deciding everything. Positively or negatively. It's never the case though. There is always a team behind these leads and most of the work comes from them but we never hear about them and people interpret that as "if this guy is upfront, he's the reason things worked/didn't work".

You can look at Bill Roper, senior producer on Diablo 2, for example. The man was venerated after Diablo 2. Then he struck out on his own and founded Flagship Studios and their first game was Hellgate: London. People were absolutely raving about the game. Bill Roper! On a Diablo like game! It was just bound to be awesome! Then reality came crashing down and Hellgate: London sucked. It wasn't terrible but it wasn't nearly as good as people hoped.

Anyone remembers Peter Molyneux? Awesome work at Bullfrog in the 90s. Also great work at Lionhead in the 00s. Then he struck out on his own and founded his own studio. Boy, oh boy did he fall from grace fast. Most likely never to rise again. As a side note, I desperately want a follow up to B&W.

It's just two examples but the point is, these leads are nothing without the teams and studios behind them. Positively or negatively. It's the team as a whole that soars or crashes.

Leads are there to lead their team to greatness but they're not creating that greatness (or awfulness) by themselves.
 
Not sure where this notion comes from that a writer (or any other employee really) hired by CDPR(i.e. PAID BY CDPR) remains this free spirit, unbound by any expectations, requirements, ethics, social & cultural norms in the company etc.

If they hired her it means they decided her work has more of a chance to benefit CP2077 franchise than to ruin it.

Hiring process in CDPR also involves some practical excercises, where you're given tasks related to your work and need to prove yourself. So I can imagine they not only assessed her previous works but also gave her some stuff to write which fits their vision of the game. Or something like that.

So yeah she might be leading the writers team but still her/their work will still be assessed in terms of overall vision for Orion.
:think:

perhaps its because of the overall view, CDPR on their own put out some videos that didn t go down well with the fanbase
meddling with stuff that is known for dragging game quality down, let alone disrupting the community even.
On top of that i suspect Ubijuices reputation plays a massive role as well. And on top of that all the stuff that is going
on with western AAA industrie as a whole since a few years.

So....
although it remains to be seen how future games of CDPR will go, the concerns are real
the meddling with unecessary stuff is real, so i wouldn't cast the concerns aside just like that.
Doubts are swirling around ever since December 2020 and the follow up years.
Even when it easy can look like CDPR redeemed CP77, the dent in the reputation is still there
the concern is still there, so obviously every bit of info is examined with a massive magnifing glass

But okay thats just me as rly old forum veteran ^^
 
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