CDPR is putting story above freedom.

[Ajax2077]

Another user on this thread put it best "I've had my expectations thoroughly tempered over the past few months".

Lack of freedom, player choice & customization. This game is NOTHING like we were sold at E3 2018. I'm not talking about the demo either (which explicitly stated not reflective of the final product) I'm talking about the promises from the devs.

They went from "This is an RPG where you can make your own character and story" to "there's a strict story you're gonna follow and you can choose the gameplay mechanics you use to beat the levels."

Apartments: Nerfed. Only one, and uncustomizable. Sorry, no rags to riches story for you. Cars, one garage, not thoroughly customizable. Clothing, hair -- limited. Cybernetics -- they've already confirmed your character will never be able to achieve the lengths NPCs like the maelstrom gang can. No face implants. So, they've artificially limited what we can do with cybernetics.

Mini games (especially hacking) are lack luster to put it lightly.

And all I keep hearing from mega fans are "Trust in CDPR. We don't need apartments, or custom cars, or outfits, or mini games, it would break the immersion. It would ruin the story."

The 15 minute demo did nothing for me. I used to be so hyped for this game, but with all these artificial limits put on player freedom, I really don't feel anything at this point. I know it'll be out soon and I'll enjoy it when it's here, but this isn't the massive free open world we were Bs'd into hyping over.

Your thoughts?

 

[dogukans]

You're right about your concern. IMO, rather than having a story it should allow us choose our path:

You want to be a corpo? Ok. You will get tasks from your corp and do it

You wanna be a fixer? Ok take missions from corps, gangs etc. And give them to mercenaries

You wanna be a mercenary? Ok go to a fixer and take any mission

I am not saying there should not be any story at all, but rather than focusing on a story they could just make rather small stories for each lifepath

 

[kirell]

Your thoughts?

Lots of assumptions and generalisations:

You saw one single hacking minigame -> mini games are lackluster ? Only thing you can really conclude is that you didn't like this one hacking minigame (different minigames depending on opponent already confirmed). Also, did you see any other minigames or how do you know all will be lackluster for you?

Limited clothing and hair? How do you know ? If from the character customisation screen, they already confirmed its just there to give us a taste and we can expect much more in the final one (link).

Cybernetics: We don't know what options are available exactly, but they said even before the 2018 demo that V cannot go cyberpycho. Anyway, V is supposed to be able to move in all kinds of social circles - if he had Maelstorm type face modifications, he wouldn't be able to do much outside gang turf.

Appartements: Couldn't care less myself, even if we had no appartements at all. Realize for the nestbuilding types that was a bummer. But its also very old news from sometime last year.

 

[Rawls]

I agree they put story first. They've explicitly said so in the past. https://www.pcgamer.com/story-comes-first-in-the-making-of-cyberpunk-2077/

The focus on action in a demo, Swiecicki explains, was a result of them wanting to show off as many game systems as possible. “Storytelling is hugely important to us as a studio,” he says. “We want to tell stories that resonate with people on an emotional level and ask important questions. So there will be a lot of that in the actual game. It’s an important part of the genre.”

Pietras adds that everything starts with story at CDPR, and that every department, from quest design to cinematic animation, has an intimate working relationship with the writers. “In one scene the writers wanted Meredith Stout, a corporation boss, to look visibly nervous and frustrated, because she knows someone in her corp is trying to screw her over,” he says. “So we took that direction and animated her accordingly.”

I don't think that's a bad thing. And it's not like they're hiding it. Narrative driven RPGs are what CDPR does. This is the first time they've even made a game without a fixed protagonist. If you expected a blank-slate, non-character based sandbox that wasn't focused on a story and allowed the player to go and do whatever without consequence like Bethesda games ... I don't know what else to tell you other than this has always been what the game was going to be. A narrative driven RPG.

 

[Bloodartist]

One can only hope that cyberpunk as a genre picks up again in the aftermath, and other developers jump on the bandwagon. CP2077 is still the only true cyberpunk game I know of.. besides shadowrun games which I don't count because I hate mixing magic and fantasy into it.

 

[Mebrilia]

Except when the story you want tell end to cripple the whole experience and a spirit of a setting. Story is important in rpg however it is not the only thing it should matter.

When i think about a well done narrative experience i think about Planescape Torment. That game blended really well D&D lore and mechanics in a breath taking narrative that is still unmatched.

What in my opinion cd projekt is aiming for is not a narrative experience ((that can be done with no cutscene no voice acting)) but a cinematic experience. ((is also the reason why they chosen the fpp only approach they wanted a personal approach at the story)).

THing is RPG are not supposed to be TV series or Movies. THis is also the reason why modern rpgs are being dumbed down on roleplay elements in the first place.

Sadly right now for me despite the magic. Shadowrun games are way more closer to the cyberpunk pen and paper feel than cyberpunk 2077 for me.

 

[Aedan2]

I am a gamer since 2002. That is a lot of years. In all those years I saw numerous attacks on different game devs. These attacks on CDPR that have been going for some time now, are the worst. I havent seen this attacks like this on EA and Activision combined. Guys if you dont like this dont preorder the game. Hell, dont buy the game when it comes on discount if you want, but leave CDPR alone. The game isnt out yet, nobody have any right to attack CDPR right now, except shareholders of course.

Dont buy the game if you dont like what you see. Me on the other hand, I preordered the game because I have max trust in CDPR, and I really know that they dont deserve all these attacks

 

[Has_Neyn]

I agree with you. After this whole no TPP cutscene thing, I'm off the hype train for now.

 

[Matchst1ckk]

Perhaps my biggest fear in regards to Cyberpunk 2077 is that the story is either going to be awful, boring, dumb, and/or just not my cup of tea. These only get worse as it seems the story is taking precident.

I can live with tempered expectations and reality checks stopping the developers from delivering on every promise and expectation. I can tolerate developer decisions I don't agree with (how dare they not make this game exclusively tailored to me!) I still think I'm going to enjoy this game and that hasn't changed since 2018; I'm still sitting in my first class ticket on the hype train. It's just been tempered a little, and that's okay.

If nothing else, I'm glad they are saying "it's for the story" as opposed to other developers saying "it's for the graphics/visuals". Spending $60 for a RPG with a fleshed out and varrying story feels better than spending $60 on a game because it's got really nice graphics.

 

[Mebrilia]

I am a gamer since 2002. That is a lot of years. In all those years I saw numerous attacks on different game devs. These attacks on CDPR that have been going for some time now, are the worst. I havent seen this attacks like this on EA and Activision combined. Guys if you dont like this dont preorder the game. Hell, dont buy the game when it comes on discount if you want, but leave CDPR alone. The game isnt out yet, nobody have any right to attack CDPR right now, except shareholders of course.

Dont buy the game if you dont like what you see. Me on the other hand, I preordered the game because I have max trust in CDPR, and I really know that they dont deserve all these attacks

Good for you but beside complain about complainers you need to understand something. People are harsh because cd projekt red was trusted before. It is pointless to move complaint on develpment houses that what they care about is just cashgrab using cheap moves.

You also need before writing what you did know the context this game was waited even before witcher 3 was shown. People spent years talking discussing and sharing ideas in this very forum. They have all the right to voice their own concern if they don't find what was showcased pleasing. It is also in the process of make developers know they can do better.

You don't like it? It is fine.

But before posting on a thread say something related to the arugment that was posted.

Also if i am only interested in stories. I read a book or i see a movie.

 

[jt4gov]

I mean, they've been expressing the importance of the story since day 1, so I fail to see the issue there. I'm also failing to see the lack of freedom.

The only RPGs that I recall off of the top of my head with multiple, customizable, player homes is Bethesda's games (which are notoriously becoming less and less of RPGs). People are more than welcome to be upset by this, but ultimately certain things need to be focused on first and foremost to create a great game.

As for limited customization, of course there is. What game doesn't have limited customization? It likely has more character body options than DoS or PoE which are revered as phenomenal RPGs.

Ultimately you're free to like or dislike certain priorities, but one shouldn't pretend we've somehow been mislead or lied to when the developers have been more than transparent (especially compared to other studios). I personally prefer they focus of gameplay, story and choice/consequence/dialogue than anything else.

 

[moonknightgog]

I mean, they've been expressing the importance of the story since day 1,

Nope. Originally it was supposed to be more sandbox and close to the PnP rules, but they clearly scrapped it and changed direction after TW3.

 

[WacaWaka]

Did we knew anything back in a day of 2013 announcement? I doubt game existed anywhere except design documents
at that date.

 

[Kinley]

Nope. Originally it was supposed to be more sandbox and close to the PnP rules, but they clearly scrapped it and changed direction after TW3.

I doubt there was much of a game until after W3 to begin with. CDPR have always touted of bringing a strong mature cinematic feel even starting with W1, and it has been the case so far with all their games.

Them wanting to make CP77 cinematic is exactly their wheelhouse.

 

[jt4gov]

Nope. Originally it was supposed to be more sandbox and close to the PnP rules, but they clearly scrapped it and changed direction after TW3.

You mean, before development began? We've known for years what this game was going to be and they've been completely transparent in that regard.

 

[BluPixel]

Guys, you have the right to complain but at some point don't you think it's time to realize that you're gonna have to accept the game for what it is and stop complaining every day about a game they will never make and move on ?

 

[staroflinden]

Itt: People who haven't played the game complaining about the game

 

[BlueNeonRAM]

I agree they put story first. They've explicitly said so in the past. https://www.pcgamer.com/story-comes-first-in-the-making-of-cyberpunk-2077/



I don't think that's a bad thing. And it's not like they're hiding it. Narrative driven RPGs are what CDPR does. This is the first time they've even made a game without a fixed protagonist. If you expected a blank-slate, non-character based sandbox that wasn't focused on a story and allowed the player to go and do whatever without consequence like Bethesda games ... I don't know what else to tell you other than this has always been what the game was going to be. A narrative driven RPG.

Excellent narrative is what we sign on to CDPR for to begin with. Putting the story first and foremost isn’t an issue. I can’t speak for everyone but where my, and I think the OP, issue is that what CP2077 was being pitched as for several years and what has been revealed within the last couple of months are a bit contradictory.

For example, when quest designer Patrick Mills was talking about their decision to go first person over third he had this say, "With Witcher 3, you're playing Geralt and you're watching Geralt. You're controlling Geralt. He's a character, right? He's somebody who already exists," Mills said. "In this game we wanted to put you in the shoes and in the body of the character you're controlling, so you feel like this is your character. First-person was one way to do that." And that seems to fall into the party line even up to the recent deep dive gameplay video. In the video the guys kept saying, “We want you to create any character you want, play any way you want, we your story to fell like your own and different from everyone else’s. No two play throughs will feel the same.” How could that be true if customization is taking a back seat for a more streamlined narrative experience? If they want to tell and action-adventure story with some branching narrative paths that’s cool. I dig it. Just don’t sell it to me as this epic rpg where you can be who you want and move through the story how you want as your chosen character. A lot of the changes make it sound like you’re going to play a character, V’s, story and not a customizable story. Which would be the opposite of what they were saying was going to happen.

What is the point in spending time and energy on creating a character if you’re only going to see them in a rear view mirror and your inventory screen? Like I get the decision to go first person from a story telling perspective, but to not even see your character in cut scenes, except on the “rare occasion?” And I’m all about gender identity representation, but putting a generic stamp on the whole thing doesn’t actually solve the problem, it only worsens it. I like that you can mix and match body types and voices and the like so that people can make a character they resonate and identify with but why take away the option to identify as a male or female along with it? I could be wrong on the actual implementation as the game has yet to be released but from what I’ve read and seen so far it seems like you’re just V now. No matter what gender or lack there of you choose to play as you’ll just be referred to as V. Which seems very generic and does not make me feel like I’m playing a unique character. And again why even bother with all the options if you’re never going to see the character anyways?

The problem is not that they are focusing on the story. The problem is that they seem to be sacrificing a lot of the traditional rpg elements along the way to tell their action adventure story instead of allowing us to play our own Cyberpunk story like was promised.

 

[Rawls]

How could that be true if customization is taking a back seat for a more streamlined narrative experience?

Because seeing your character is not the only way, nor the most important way IMO, to make the character feel custom and unique ... though it is perhaps the easiest way. Back story, dialogue choices, narrative choices and gameplay choices are all much more important than what my character looks like IMO. Playthroughs wont feel the same because of non-linear branching narratives. Freedom in the way we look is a portion of that, but it's IMO a relatively small part compared to narrative freedom to choose the story we want. This is still very much a non-linear story.

Also, you can customize style & looks still, you just wont be able to see it all the time (or even most of the time) in gameplay. Which is more like real life than a game where the camera is 3 feet back and 2 feet up.

I mean, I get it to a point. I personally prefer TPP in games most of the time. However, given what we have seen from the FPP interactive dialogue system, it looks REALLY good ... and I dont think it would work as well in TPP. Think about the FPP scenes we've seen - with Sandra Dorset, with Dex, with Stout, with Maelstrom ... they all looked great. The game contextually gives you additional dialogue options depending on what V is looking at. I think that would not feel as intuitive or natural in TPP. This way we're right there in it, not removed from the conversation or action. Also as they have said several times in the past, they want you behind V's eyes due to tighter environment of being in a City and because they want the HUD to be explained with V's cyberware. It has an in world explanation. It's not just there for the player, V is seeing that information too.

And yes, if it were a zero sum game, then everything takes a back seat to the story, because everything is built around the story. If it's character customization vs narrative ... narrative is going to win, they've been clear about that. However, I dont think it's a zero sum game. I think it will feel like a unique V when we're in her shoes in FPP. You can have both customization and FPP.

 

[kirell]

Because seeing your character is not the only way, nor the most important way IMO, to make the character feel custom and unique ... though it is perhaps the easiest way. Back story, dialogue choices, narrative choices and gameplay choices are all much more important than what my character looks like IMO. Playthroughs wont feel the same because of non-linear branching narratives. Freedom in the way we look is a portion of that, but it's IMO a relatively small part compared to narrative freedom to choose the story we want.

Well said. Was in the process of writing a similar answer, but that sums it up far better.