CDPR Just Hired MODDERS to Help Fix Cyberpunk 2077 & Add Mod Support

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I stand corrected, though not entirely off the mark given Steam's "offline mode" capability. Which is contrary to how Steam DB generates it's statistics. So while he may be "partly" correct, I'm not "entirely" wrong. Regardless, it doesn't really change the underlying premise of the example. Cyberpunk 2077 is simply faring FAR worse than other games 9 months out from launch. Especially after 8 million sales in the PC space alone, which runs the game MUCH more stable, reliably, and with fewer instances of bugs and glitches.

I do not disagree with any particular point, but I'd like to add that Cyberpunk 2077 as it is does not have any long lasting appeal yet, it's a new IP with a rocky launch that has one game under it's belt with a finite amount of content that is ultimately story driven. For the vast majority of players it's a one and done deal, once they finish it they move on to the next game, it's how the market works.

There's very few of us that stick around and play it continuously nine to ten months later because there simply isn't enough content for that, which is fine, because the content that it does have is very compelling to the specific type of gamer that it's catering for (hint not sandbox aimless make your own fun kind of game).

CDPR is a business. First and foremost. And like any business, certain concessions must be made to further the bottom line. It's the path they chose when they became a publicly traded company. And as a mod creator myself, I can certainly relate to the disdain for ANY company that seeks to directly benefit financially from the work that modders provide for free.

Hence why it was a train wreck when they attempted any of that, it's ridiculous that it was even a thing and it only worked to cause a rift in between modders and mod users.

Microsoft may be greedy, but Todd Howard isn't stupid. He knows the value modding brings to his studio's games. Starfield is his baby. The game he's longed to create for over two decades. There's room in the market for compromise. Especially in this age of modding for consoles, and the rising cries in the console space for the ability to benefit from mods.

Like I said before, I'd love to be proven otherwise, but the shift in direction for Bethesda does not fill me up with confidence.
So you have to wonder, does CDPR really "need" to "cash in" on mods?

I would argue not. Why? Because by starting at the beginning, in the infancy of this generation of their game engine, the mods created by a powerful, fleshed out toolset could be an immensely driving factor in the long term success of not only this, but any future title they are or intend to build upon it. It's a golden opportunity to turn tragic loss into a major win.

Agreed!

Again, I really don't get the animosity this subject seems to quell up in some people.

I don't believe that to be the case, I believe the argument was purely from a financial perspective when it comes to how valuable the modability of games actually is for the vast majority of games in the current market.

Bethesda, like it or not is an outlier, I personally do only buy their games due to mods because I've been modding them since Morrowind days.

But I can't say the same for other games, perhaps S.T.A.L.K.E.R. comes close to me, but I can't say I've had the urge to buy any game in any other franchise due to mods alone.

If often leads to me questioning why I even bother to continue modding games at all.

I believe you need not lose focus on what made you begin modding in the first place, fun, and sharing that fun with the community, it's as simple as that.

People will always have differing opinions.

We're ALL looking to meet the same end. A highly successful and enjoyable game to play, and long term success for the company that brought it to us.
Pretty much. :D
 
I don't believe that to be the case, I believe the argument was purely from a financial perspective when it comes to how valuable the modability of games actually is for the vast majority of games in the current market.

That would be my opinion as well. Except we're in a discussion thread discussing a decision that CDPR has already made. There's no argument that can be reasonably made against it on any basis from that point on. Yet some wish to argue AGAINST an elevated level of support by providing the most powerful modding tools they reasonably can. My rebuttals are for why they SHOULD.

Bethesda, like it or not is an outlier, I personally do only buy their games due to mods because I've been modding them since Morrowind days.

True. To an extent. Bethesda is an outlier only in the immense level of modder support their tools afford. Plenty of other studios offer at least some minimalistic tools for modding their games. Many of which have already been mentioned here, and including CDPR. How much more popular and re-playable would The Witcher 3 have been if it got the kind of support Bethesda's Creation Kits do? Or ANY other AAA game for that matter.

Yet here we are. Just 9 months post-release of their latest title, and their LAST game from 6 years ago is retaining more PC players than their shiny new one. The reasons for which are many, sure. But again, I reiterate that this is on the PC version. Which already has mods that have improved and fixed MANY of the games more glaring issues months before any official tool was even hinted at. Modders were THAT passionate about the game. Which is an extreme rarity outside of the Bethesda bubble.

And all I'm saying is, it would be a travesty for that level of passion and potential to go to waste because of a weak, minimalistic toolset. Either put some meat and potatoes into it, or can the whole idea and let's get on with it.
 

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Yet some wish to argue AGAINST an elevated level of support by providing the most powerful modding tools they reasonably can. My rebuttals are for why they SHOULD.
Then you're rebutting the point nobody is making. No one in this thread is arguing against mod support or modders, some of us don't see the eventuality of Cyberpunk 2077 having its own Creation Kit as likely for multitude of reasons (modders tend to gravitate towards sandbox titles instead of story-driven ones or the simple fact that not every game is made with the idea of modders having easy way of changing whatever they want into whatever they want, like they do in Bethesda's games).
 
Yep, I also think that @Trykz you overstimate this number ;)
If it was also "important" as you think, why Bethesda is almost alone (especially on consoles...). If it represented any kind of possible income for Studios, I think Bethesda wouldn't be "alone" since a long time. All game would have their own modding tools and plenty of mods (or an easy way for create mods). But it's not the case, Bethesda is an exception.
Another example, Minecraft with very huge players base, with huge numbers of mods (the most popular have "alone" more than 200 millions of downloads) But players who use mods are a minority (I think less than 1%), so obviously Mojang (now Microsoft) don't care about mods :(

But if CDPR care about modding tools and mods, it already a great new... It's already better than most of studios :)


We do not agree on this point. The reason other AAA DEV do not do the same thing is because they are suffering from the "not made here" gotcha. I promise you that in the future all of "time tested" successful games (games that live way beyond the reasonable number of years they should be popular ) will come with DEV made modding tools or at least not be hostile to modders because they will be focused on making money not on the EGO of the senior developers in the company.

Mark my words, If we are talking about Cyberpunk 2077 on this forum in ten years it will because they have hundreds or maybe thousands of mods on nexus (and other websites) that have kept the game unexpectedly popular even with non-PC players.

I do not think you have done any mod making yourself? It is ridiculously addicting once you get over the learning curve. And to a lesser but still significant extend the players that use the mods. And we all know what happens with any "legal" addictive sellable products. So all these AAA DEV have to do is find ways to reduce the learning curve and they will have addicts throwing money at them. I know I would...
 
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you know the unreal engine is available. Why don't modders just take that and create their own game?

Modders can add to the game, that there is no doubt and they can provide a lot of content that a game company would not have the time for. (A working model railway for you to ride for instance) but they aren't going to make a different game else they might just as well take unreal engine and work with that and produce their own.
 
you know the unreal engine is available. Why don't modders just take that and create their own game?

Modders can add to the game, that there is no doubt and they can provide a lot of content that a game company would not have the time for. (A working model railway for you to ride for instance) but they aren't going to make a different game else they might just as well take unreal engine and work with that and produce their own.
Im sure alot do just that if they wanna test out making games. But changing a existing system or making one from the start is quite diffrent. Also some dont wanna start companys and just enjoy making mods for themselfs or close friends. You would be suprised how much they can change especially when given the proper tools for it. Heck even i have tested out the UE tools even if i have 0 programming experiance and hade some fun with it.
 
I do not think you have done any mod making yourself? It is ridiculously addicting once you get over the learning curve. And to a lesser but still significant extend the players that use the mods. And we all know what happens with any "legal" addictive sellable products. So all these AAA DEV have to do is find ways to reduce the learning curve and they will have addicts throwing money at them. I know I would...

Maybe I misspoke, but I don't disagree with all the benefits mods bring to games. I would be the first to buy some games that I don't "really" like, if mods could help change that. So yeah, I know it's great and I really hope we can get mods on all games (and even console), it would probably make a difference (and sell some games "more").

But I find that taking Bethesda as an example (and generality) is not adequate, because modding is one of the (very) big strengths of all their games. They can't really change that. That's why I said, Bethesda is (and will stay) "stuck" with mods. It would be like if CDPR will decide that in their next game, the story and the characters are not important... unthinkable, impossible and sure failure.

The fact that I have doubts, to take an example : Minecraft "java" version, again (maybe not the best, but quite revealing of the problem I am raising). One of the most sold game ever, extremely popular for its mods and its community of modders (a lot of mods have more than 50 millions of unic downloads, without counting that most (the majority) of players play on modpacks (like FTB) so not taken into account). When Microsoft bought Mojang and decided to release THEIR own version (Win 10/Bedrock), Microsoft have completely ignored the possibly to mods the game... For Microsoft, no mod is welcome on Minecraft Win 10/Bedrock... It's sad and I don't know why, but it's like that.

So unlike other practices discutables but obviously profitables (like microtransactions...), I have doubts that mods will ever become widespread. But I obviously hope I'm wrong. And this thread shows that CDPR care about mods/modders, it's very positive point indeed.

There is a loading screen phrase on BD3 that I like very much that sums it up nicely:
"Grenades are like open world RPGs, it's good, but even better with mods"
 
The first witcher game sold 1.2M and TW2 sold 1.7M in the first year of launch. TW2 was also very famous for it's graphics. I still use it to see how much powerful is my GPU with the help of "UberSampling".
Yes, I don't consider these numbers quite worthy of a title worldwide hit. The Witcher 3 sold almost 10 milion copies in the first year, Skyrim 4.7 milion.
 
No one in this thread is arguing against mod support or modders,

Except that isn't what I said at all:

Yet some wish to argue AGAINST an elevated level of support by providing the most powerful modding tools they reasonably can. My rebuttals are for why they SHOULD.

There's a pretty clear difference between what I'm saying, and what you're claiming I'm saying. It's not the mods or modding you seem to take issue with, but more the level of modability you seem to be arguing for modders to be limited to, for reasons that exist more in subjective opinion than any real basis in fact.

So again, this toolset needs to offer the ability to create MUCH MORE than just paint schemes, clothing retextures, and simple quests. Because if it doesn't, then serious modders seeking to create quality content won't stick around for very long, and the list of available mods will be rather..... short, to say the least.

you know the unreal engine is available. Why don't modders just take that and create their own game?

Modders can add to the game, that there is no doubt and they can provide a lot of content that a game company would not have the time for. (A working model railway for you to ride for instance) but they aren't going to make a different game else they might just as well take unreal engine and work with that and produce their own.

Modders are not game developers. Sure, some go on to become game developers, but relatively few by comparison. Most just enjoy modding an already completed title. And very few modders seek to radically alter the game with total overhauls. Enderal was the exception, NOT the rule. Mods like Falskaar and Moonpath to Elsweyr are more mainstream to what most highly skilled modders tend to prefer creating. Not so much to "radically change" the game as "add" to it in meaningful ways designed to extend the gameplay. To make it "just a little more perfect".

Both of the aforementioned mods add entire WORLDS of additional content. And with ZERO impact on the vanilla game world. And this kit CDPR is creating needs to have AT LEAST that level of creative capability. Anything less is pretty pointless. Modding tools, by their very existence, are meant to draw creative players in for the sole purpose of creating new content. So why draw them in just to bore them away with a weak toolset?

Again, I see this as an opportunity for CDPR to turn tragic loss into a major win. So now I'll just sit and wait to see if they choose to capitalize, or fail yet again. I'm hopeful for the former. Because the latter only hurts the game and company even further.
 
What I don't understand, is the often open animosity for suggesting what EVERYONE knows to be true. Modders can (and DO) extend the lifecycle of many games. Which is a win for CDPR. A much needed win given the devastating hits they've taken to their reputation, and the lost trust of their own long time fanbase. This is a GOLDEN opportunity for them to reclaim a sizable portion of both, and set things right.

Why would anyone NOT want that?

The part of your post I highlighted is EXACTLY what they need to do. Because falling short of that mark will lead to exactly where we expect. Niche and obscure, and this endeavor will be an utter waste of time and effort. As I type this, 45 new mods (and counting) have been created and released on Nexus for Skyrim Special Edition. Just today. The Witcher 3? Four. The Witcher 2? None. CDPR needs to consider the reasons for this as they're creating this toolset. It's certainly not because the Witcher games are boring, or uninteresting. On the contrary, they're quite beloved. I think the answer is quite obvious. The tools are weak, and don't allow modders to truly display their true ingenuity and creativity.

Don't repeat that mistake here as well.

Number of mods means nothing. Majority of these mods for Skyrim is crap. They are amateurish and don't fit the game.
For the toolset i agree.
 
Number of mods means nothing. Majority of these mods for Skyrim is crap. They are amateurish and don't fit the game.
For the toolset i agree.

You're missing the point. @Trykz feel free to correct me if I'm missing it too but that's what I'm getting from your post.

The quality of mods is completely irrelevant. The sheer number of mods being created for Bethesda games is proof of the quality of their tools and the interest in their tools and mods in general. In fact, I would argue that the fact most of the mods available are amateurish is further proof that the tools are extremely powerful. Ms. and Mr. average can fire up those tools and produce something that they like or want and quickly introduce it into their game.

Hell, I got into Oblivion modding myself with no background whatsoever and created some fairly decent stuff. That's just how easy to use the tools are.

No other company even comes close to providing tools that powerful coupled with a game (and it's engine) so fundamentally mod friendly.
 
Hell, I got into Oblivion modding myself with no background whatsoever and created some fairly decent stuff. That's just how easy to use the tools are.

No other company even comes close to providing tools that powerful coupled with a game (and it's engine) so fundamentally mod friendly.

This,
Why was Minecraft so feaking popular even with the bad graphics and simplistic base game? Because it allowed the average joe to effectively wave a magic wand and alter their virtual reality. They could program their own rudimentary Holodeck with anything they could imagine.

This is why I played Oblivion for 10 years for almost 20 hours a week. * Well I did not play "the game" so much (maybe about 1/4th the time was playing) but I could wake up in the middle of the night on Friday with an amazing new idea to alter some mechanic of the game to exactly my taste and by Sunday evening I was uploading it to the Nexus including special visual effects and sounds! ONLY because the official tools were both powerful, easy to use and the game engine would allow a lot of messing around with the code.

There was some combat game (sorry I do not remember the name) where one of the DEV realized that the map maker for making levels for the combat was MORE fun to play around with than the game. He started his own game studio to make games where the player would make virtual world environments.

That is what most other DEV do not get.

* no exaggeration, I have NO pop culture knowledge of television shows from that decade because my TV was off for that entire time...
 
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That is what most other DEV do not get.

Here's the rub:

if the game had launched without much more than a few hiccups, this discussion thread likely wouldn't even exist. But it didn't. And now it needs all the help it can get. Because beginning likely in December, we're going to start getting bombarded with new, high quality AAA titles from many of the most successful studios in the business, across EVERY platform. And it's likely going to last for the entirety of 2022.

If you're wondering how that has anything to do with CDPR and Cyberpunk, it's pretty easily to foresee how things are going to go. CDPR plans to finish and release the first expansion for Cyberpunk 2077 sometime in early 2022. The landslide of NEW games is going to begin this December. Forcing many players (if not most) to make a choice: buy an expansion from a studio that advertised away A TON of the trust and faith of their long-time dedicated fans, or just go ahead and buy that shiny new game they've had their eye on since last year, and MAYBE circle back to an expansion later in the year? Because as of this moment, the latter is certainly MY plan.

My guess is MOST will go for the latter. They'll play a new game, and watch for the reviews of the Cyberpunk expansion while they play it. And if those reviews aren't exactly "stellar"? Well, it won't sell 13 million copies, that's for certain. However:

What if they knuckled down and produced a powerful, full-featured toolset (designed to be readily expanded to mod future titles as well right out of the box), and released THAT just prior to the expansion? Well, now we're talking about a whole new set of variables. Because not only is the expansion imminent, but TONS of mods are likely to start surfacing here, on Nexus, and every other modding site on the net to go with it right around the same time or shortly thereafter. And a steady flow would likely continue right into the second expansion and well beyond, as more modders get acquainted with the toolset.

Would such a scenario entice players to keep playing the game for 10+ years? Well, I'm still modding and playing Skyrim and Fallout 4. I stopped working on Oblivion and New Vegas just last year. What I can tell you is this:

If CDPR releases a Creation Kit level toolset for this game, there's a pretty good chance I'll mod it for the next 10 :ROFLMAO:
 
My guess is MOST will go for the latter. They'll play a new game, and watch for the reviews of the Cyberpunk expansion while they play it. And if those reviews aren't exactly "stellar"? Well, it won't sell 13 million copies, that's for certain. However:
Speaking for myself it doesn't matter what CDPR does or does not do going forward. It's unlikely I purchase anything for CP in the future until it ends up on sale.

It's not because I think the game is bad. I enjoyed my time with it. The game didn't deliver up to the standards of my hopes. It wasn't far off the mark from my expectations though. Unfortunately, the expectation standard didn't lend itself to maintaining long-term interest in the existing game itself (finished it and largely shelved it).

It's not because I feel mislead either. Regardless, I do think the company put a disproportionate amount of beans into talking big instead of actually delivering. Such practices are never good for the consumer. Incidentally, incentives to throw money at a company engaging in them become greatly reduced. Bearing in mind it's less about trust (I don't trust product makers, any of them) or loyalty (I'm more of a mercenary when it comes to consumption) and more about utilizing the only real leverage available to a consumer (their wallet).
What if they knuckled down and produced a powerful, full-featured toolset (designed to be readily expanded to mod future titles as well right out of the box), and released THAT just prior to the expansion? Well, now we're talking about a whole new set of variables. Because not only is the expansion imminent, but TONS of mods are likely to start surfacing here, on Nexus, and every other modding site on the net to go with it right around the same time or shortly thereafter. And a steady flow would likely continue right into the second expansion and well beyond, as more modders get acquainted with the toolset.
While true this approach strikes me as a bit of a long game. Dedicating resources to a robust modding toolset is hardly an instant proposition. It will take time. An extensive number of mods following suit would consume even more. It takes time for the modding community to familiarize themselves with the tools and pop out mods. I suspect the first point is why CDPR acquired the services of these modders. The second point boils down to timeframe (aka, how does it line up with expansion/future product arrival?).
Would such a scenario entice players to keep playing the game for 10+ years? Well, I'm still modding and playing Skyrim and Fallout 4. I stopped working on Oblivion and New Vegas just last year. What I can tell you is this:

If CDPR releases a Creation Kit level toolset for this game, there's a pretty good chance I'll mod it for the next 10
People continuing to play the game doesn't generate revenue though. This is to say people who have already paid for the game don't suddenly become new sales for sticking to the game longer. It potentially can lead to future revenue, however. Say, someone becomes more likely to purchase a future product because they know extensive modding is part of the deal.

I don't think there is any question of whether modding is ideal from a consumer perspective. Pick a game, any game. Robust modding is universally better. For a number of reasons. However, what is better for the consumer may not be what is perceived as better from the company perspective.

If I were to slip into the clown suit and don my tinfoil hat the suspicion is it's financially viable. In other words, resources devoted to robust modding do in fact yield a boon to absolute value profits. But.... it's at best speculation. It also likely depends on the circumstances.

Lastly, this game in particular has a massive amount of untapped potential in the modding sphere. It sounds like it's possibly headed in that direction.
 
While true this approach strikes me as a bit of a long game.

The tools already exist. They used them to build the game. So it's a matter of deciding how much engine level access they want to afford to a "user end" toolset, package it up and release it.

People continuing to play the game doesn't generate revenue though.

You're right. But it DOES generate anticipation for the company's next titles. Knowing that their intent is to continue building their next titles on this engine, Imagine those waiting for the next Witcher title. And then compound that with the knowledge that a capable modding toolset already exists. As noted, I currently play and mod multiple Bethesda titles. And as others have noted, it's wasn't exactly Skyrim's "deeply interesting and enthralling story" that clinched my purchase of Fallout 4. It was CK64 and the power it put in my hands to reshape BOTH games however I choose.

I don't think there is any question of whether modding is ideal from a consumer perspective. Pick a game, any game. Robust modding is universally better. For a number of reasons. However, what is better for the consumer may not be what is perceived as better from the company perspective.

True. And exactly why I keep pointing out that their toolset needs to contain "built-in" considerations for their future titles on this engine as exemplified above. Even if they didn't launch a toolset until after the first expansion, it would still pay heavy dividends into the company's financial future. Especially once the YouTubers and other streamers start showcasing the more advanced mods. Again, the game sold over 8 million copies to the PC space alone. And a robust toolset could help push expansion sales quite close to that same number.

If I were to slip into the clown suit and don my tinfoil hat the suspicion is it's financially viable. In other words, resources devoted to robust modding do in fact yield a boon to absolute value profits. But.... it's at best speculation. It also likely depends on the circumstances.

Lastly, this game in particular has a massive amount of untapped potential in the modding sphere. It sounds like it's possibly headed in that direction.

My thoughts exactly. When I first played the game and was finally able to move around without the ball and chain that is the "Watson lockdown", the most prevalent thought going through my head as I explored the game world wasn't "ooh.... pretty!". It was "HOLY SHIT!!! Imagine what I could do with all this!" I'm sure there are plenty of modders out there who thought largely the same.

Cyberpunk 2077 is the kind of game I've waited my entire gaming life to play. At least it was supposed to be. It was supposed to be an RPG. It was branded as an "open world RPG" until mere days before launch. Until I played through, and it wasn't. But as I read the last comment in your post, it seems you're "expecting" CDPR will put out something more than just a basic set of editing tools. And I hope you're right. But given their recent track record and staffing turnover, I'm not holding my breath.
 
Now does this mean potential for Xbox and Playstation modding, not just pc? Does anyone know?
No one knows with any degree of certitude.

I'd say it's safe to assume it'll be PC only as of this moment. Sony is notoriously difficult when it comes to this and their relationship with CDPR is probably not at it's best right now. Microsoft isn't exactly a staunch defender of modding either.

Bottom line, it's certainly coming for PC, no one knows for console.
 
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