CDPR Needs More Highly Ranked Patch Testers

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just so you know there are better players out there than your fav streamers/youtubers, who could actually use some recognition because often enough streamers are the ones picking up ideas and strats from less known top tier players
 
Wait, why should they hire people to test out the game? That's what the closed beta is for. Or am I missing something?
Do you know what it would cost to hire 10 people, to test out the game? I don't, but in any case it is infinitely more than just having 30.000 beta tester who will test the game for free :)
 
Almaron22;n7646220 said:
Wait, why should they hire people to test out the game? That's what the closed beta is for. Or am I missing something?
Do you know what it would cost to hire 10 people, to test out the game? I don't, but in any case it is infinitely more than just having 30.000 beta tester who will test the game for free :)

Of course that is true, and even when you hire 20 best players, they will be not able to balance game perfectly and find all combos. But they probably should hire at least one person that has better understanding of game as card designer. Because I could not believe my eyes when I saw version they showed to streamers. Nearly all new non-nilf cards were totally weak and unplayable. On the other hand all Nilf bronze and Harpy were totally overpowered. Build they showed yesterday was much more balanced and they corrected most obvious mistakes. But I really wonder how those cards could get to public build in first place and it really shake my confidence in their understanding of game balance and seeing games how they played with mistake after mistake does not help either.
 
When I watched the stream I came to the same conclusion that they need to test the patches better.

But.. this isn't Blizzard entertainment. I don't think CDPR gave the gwent people a blank check to make this. They have to make do within their means.

We would all love for them to have 50 people working tirelessly to see if every single nerf and buff is exactly what the game needs, and the new cards work without being broken...but I think for the people who enjoy this game we need to accept that the game will be shaky from patch to patch until things settle down.

I say live and let live.
 
Well, testing the patches is what they rely on us (all of the beta testers) to do. As long as the game is still in beta it is allowed to be shaky. If the patches were supposed to be perfectly balanced, the moment it comes out, then they would definitely need to hire more people to test the patches, and make sure that it's balanced. But as of right now it isen't really needed.

We are the testers. We test what they make, and give them feedback. :)
 
I disagree with OP. Unless you are planning on making the game e-sports, balancing the top of ladder is just pointless - there will always be some best decks, unfair when compared to homebrews. But the top of the ladder is by definition small, and 97% of players are trying to enjoy the game not concerned with problems the 3% have. The interests of those groups are most often common, but in those rare cases they are separate - sorry but enjoyment of larger group wins.
 
SzymonAtan;n7649570 said:
I disagree with OP. Unless you are planning on making the game e-sports, balancing the top of ladder is just pointless - there will always be some best decks, unfair when compared to homebrews. But the top of the ladder is by definition small, and 97% of players are trying to enjoy the game not concerned with problems the 3% have. The interests of those groups are most often common, but in those rare cases they are separate - sorry but enjoyment of larger group wins.

That is the point; a small group of dedicated people that can analyze at a high level compare and balance the cards so the rest can play the game how they like it with as many options available as possible.
A poorly balanced game usually has only a select number of viable options, and in extend a large amount of 'junk" that is utterly useless.

Keep in mind that balance is different for every type of game.
This kind of ballance could ruin FPS shooters for example. But in mathematical games and games based on rule sets (like Gwent) it's the opposite.
 
IAxiiYourMother;n7641570 said:
CDPR Needs More Highly Ranked Patch Testers

I came to this conclusion after watching all the misplays on the live stream today, and noticing a lot of changes/new cards being added to the game that don't make any sense.

Examples:
  • Bad Elven Merc fix decreasing synergy across the faction with BMC and cards that benefit from special cards being played.
  • Bronze Care Taker that is going to be very very hard on SK (in addition to making the game near impossible to balance with all the potential stolen bronze combos).
  • With so many ways to rob SK blind are they really the graveyard faction anymore?
  • Why creat a faction that can play its entire deck using Emissary and replaying it with bronze Care Taker immediately after nerfing a faction because it could empty its deck. (unintentional 3 cards left during the second round on stream... just wait till they bounce them with BMC if SC even runs them anymore....
  • In addition to being able to thin the entire deck, the NG faction ability allows for picking golds out of the few cards left.



Additionally it seems like there are 3 nerfs for every 1 buff when there are still a very high percentage of cards that are never seen played. Maybe small collections that are forced into using unpopular cards are skewing their statistics?

I agree with you in the points i quoted(for the rest, i'm closer to Lim3zer0's approach), and while i think they took the right decisions in many of the changes they did, those you mentioned and a few others don't make any sense and, as you said, just speaks about the lack of good deck-builders or analysts in their work team.
Also, hell, what a huge display of futility they did! Would like to not be so categorical, but gosh, it was terrible. Also, i wonder who was playing Skellige on second match, because i have never seen a deck so poorly built before, not to mention the misplay Playing Ermion before playing 1 of the 2 Pirates he had in hand, there were many more, but nobody over rank 3 would make that one. Sorry, i couldn't hold it anymore xD

Lim3zer0;n7641820 said:
I don't think the vicovaro medics are going to ruin skellige

I agree with you on every point except this one, Vicovaro medics are gonna shut down Queensguard decks by themselves. Of course they won't ruin Skellige, but ruining an entire archetype with a bronze card is not very healthy for the game.

Almaron22;n7646220 said:
Wait, why should they hire people to test out the game? That's what the closed beta is for. Or am I missing something?

Because if you create cards that are plain broken in every single way, then you will spend a lot of time balancing something that shouldn't be created in the first place, and that's exactly what they're doing.
 
TheWalkingHawking;n7649900 said:
Because if you create cards that are plain broken in every single way, then you will spend a lot of time balancing something that shouldn't be created in the first place, and that's exactly what they're doing.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm getting at with this thread. My girlfriend who doesn't even play the game but understands the basics from how much I talk about it with our other roommate. She was confused about the purpose of a lot of the changes. She was working behind me while I was watching the patch and said, "Why are they making a single row weather card fleeting when the double weather cards will be more powerful next patch?" I about died laughing that someone who has never played the game can see the lack of logic going into these patches.

Aeromancy:
-Aero is too popular and powerful lets nerf it. (Aero fleeting, not as strong)
-Weather is too powerful, make it remember buff strength. (Aero def not as strong)
-Clearing all weather is too powerful, clear it from a single row. (Aero is crawling across the floor missing an arm and leg)
-The abusing faction loses most agile units to play around their own Aero. (Aero is dying and now has no friends)
-Aglais with generated weather card after weather it is cleared..... initial problem of multiple weather from Aero is not fixed.... but why not play the dual weather silvers now?

Yaevinn:
-Card advantage is too powerful, lets make SC spy less useful. (honestly a good idea)
-Let's make him immune to weather. (Ouch, that was a common use for him, but fair enough.)
-let's also add 3 STR. (Wow wow wow, a 14 STR weather immune card is pretty crazy, unless I won the first round that is a big problem.)
-Also, he now does less damage to balance out his huge number increases... (Yaevinn wipes away his tears and smiles because he is still able to one shot all those bronze Caretakers.)

The nerfs are just crazy, pick one aspect to nerf and stick with it.

Aeromancy:
-Changes to weather are enough of a nerf, doesn't keep the spawned card so the griffins can steal it. DONE

Yaevinn:
-Immune to weather. DONE

There are many other examples of cards that got the Phillipa treatment. It makes me worry about patches because half the changes are over the top or just plain illogical.
 
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IAxiiYourMother;n7651510 said:
Yes, this is exactly what I'm getting at with this thread. My girlfriend who doesn't even play the game but understands the basics from how much I talk about it with our other roommate. She was confused about the purpose of a lot of the changes. She was working behind me while I was watching the patch and said, "Why are they making a single row weather card fleeting when the double weather cards will be more powerful next patch?" I about died laughing that someone who has never played the game can see the lack of logic going into these patches.

That made my day, smart girl you got there for sure, she is not focused enough on her work tho xD
As for the rest, i agree on the Aeromancy part, but part of Yaevinn nerf os justified by the nerfs to every other unloyal unit providing CA(the part where he does less damage to units could have been omitted tho). If ST has a problem now to make up for its added Strength, then try to imagine Skellige with 10-12 Strength Donar and 12 Strength Birna, and they're our only tools to get CA...
 
*I do agree that Yaevinn has been nerfed to the ground for a classical approach...but it has several , albeit not totally redeeming, positive qualities:

- Using Decoy to throw it back would be a heavier decision (Decoy if I noticed right will be changed into playing a card on the field again instead providing card advantage) because it is a valuable unit with weather immunity and high strength.
- It can create a legitimate Scorch protection for that round for smaller units.
- Throwing spies and decimating them will be a more prevalent tactic, instead of safely throwing them forward.

In old game it was a safe bet while tinkering with spies should be a dangerous business in my opinion. You could throw Yaevinn on a crowded row...let us say with 4 non-gold units which would practically net you 1 card advantage at cost of 3 strength bonus to enemy. If you threw it into weathered row with 4 non-gold units it gave you a card along 7 net strength damage.

In current version, you will be forced to calculate more carefully while utilizing Yaevinn.

*About Bronze Caretaker....a possible counterplay would be:

What would happen to a bronze Caretaker when there is a Savage Bear on the floor? 1 Strength Vicovaro Medic would be annihilated as soon as it appears. Skellige will have to take some precautions against pesky Nilfgaardian graverobbing snob medics.
 
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Ugralitan;n7651920 said:
*I do agree that Yaevinn has been nerfed to the ground for a classical approach...but it has several , albeit not totally redeeming, positive qualities:

- Using Decoy to throw it back would be a heavier decision (Decoy if I noticed right will be changed into playing a card on the field again instead providing card advantage) because it is a valuable unit with weather immunity and high strength.
- It can create a legitimate Scorch protection for that round for smaller units.
- Throwing spies and decimating them will be a more prevalent tactic, instead of safely throwing them forward.

In old game it was a safe bet while tinkering with spies should be a dangerous business in my opinion. You could throw Yaevinn on a crowded row...let us say with 4 non-gold units which would practically net you 1 card advantage at cost of 3 strength bonus to enemy. If you threw it into weathered row with 4 non-gold units it gave you a card along 7 net strength damage.

In current version, you will be forced to calculate more carefully while utilizing Yaevinn.

*About Bronze Caretaker....a possible counterplay would be:

What would happen to a bronze Caretaker when there is a Savage Bear on the floor? 1 Strength Vicovaro Medic would be annihilated as soon as it appears. Skellige will have to take some precautions against pesky Nilfgaardian graverobbing snob medics.

I agree with you and i have to say i always considered Yaevinn to be pretty OP compared to SK disloyal units. Also, considering how strong CA is, i like the changes to spies, making them more punishing in exchange for the CA, but then i think SK should be given another tool to get CA and deck thinning apart from their 2 spies, because not adding them to the deck is not really an option currently and they were so punishing this patch already.

Ugralitan;n7651920 said:
What would happen to a bronze Caretaker when there is a Savage Bear on the floor? 1 Strength Vicovaro Medic would be annihilated as soon as it appears. Skellige will have to take some precautions against pesky Nilfgaardian graverobbing snob medics.

True, but running Savage Bears on a Queensguard deck is totally anti-synergistic, and as i mentioned earlier, Queensguard decks are the ones who should be more afraid of Vicovaro Medics.
Doesn't matter how you look at it, Vicovaro Medics existence as bronze cards is plain stupid.
 
TheWalkingHawking;n7652020 said:
True, but running Savage Bears on a Queensguard deck is totally anti-synergistic, and as i mentioned earlier, Queensguard decks are the ones who should be more afraid of Vicovaro Medics.
Doesn't matter how you look at it, Vicovaro Medics existence as bronze cards is plain stupid.

It is true a pure Queensguard would struggle, but Tuirseach Axemen and Savage Bear can cooperate with Queensguard. Though it will turn your deck into a hybrid self-mutilation deck to compensate for the evils of Vicovaro Medics. Regardless, any deck should have contingency plans for such things. Another perspective: A Griffin could steal a Queensguard as good as a Vicovaro Medic at the end of the day. And fun fact is that Griffin will provide better Strength then the Vicovaro Medic + Queensguard (since their strength will be reduced to 2) while denying the same tactic. On the case of a Tuirseach Skirmisher though Vicovaro Medic yields better strength. Skellige will have to play around them when relying on resurrection...it is an involved risk which seems acceptable to me.

On final look at the overall picture discard and self-mutilation aspects of Skellige will be strengthened at the cost of increasing risk towards resurrection.
 
My point is... why should a faction specialized in Spies/Revealing cards, have a tool to deal with graveyards? SK has enough with Monsters and new Dethmold, who, btw, has 9 Str plus its effect, while other factions got silver cards with 10 Strength and no abilities. Zero sense.
I think this is getting off-topic, let's keep criticising devs awful gameplay =)
 
Uh, they do have a lot of high rank patch testers. they're called beta testers...smh
 
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TheWalkingHawking;n7652160 said:
My point is... why should a faction specialized in Spies/Revealing cards, have a tool to deal with graveyards? SK has enough with Monsters and new Dethmold, who, btw, has 9 Str plus its effect, while other factions got silver cards with 10 Strength and no abilities. Zero sense.
I think this is getting off-topic, let's keep criticising devs awful gameplay =)

Well...Vicovaro Medic is just part of that discussion! No shame in branching! For now though I shall add some final notes on that.

While the visible operation of a Vicovaro Medic might seem like they will target and deal with graveyards...it actually is a synergy card for a faction specialized in Spies/Revealling cards. Vicovaro Medics essentially allows Nilfgaard to re-play bronze spies which are placed in your graveyard.

Now we are at the point where we can discuss an unmentioned advantage to resurrection. Basically...if Nilfgaard can play Skellige...that also means Skellige can play Nilfgaard with resurrection abilities. Unless spies are recalled back to Nilfgaard terriority by some abilities...Skellige necromancers can throw back dead spies to Nilfgaard for spectacular effects. That is the other side of the medallion.
 
Ugralitan;n7652140 said:
It is true a pure Queensguard would struggle, but Tuirseach Axemen and Savage Bear can cooperate with Queensguard. Though it will turn your deck into a hybrid self-mutilation deck to compensate for the evils of Vicovaro Medics. Regardless, any deck should have contingency plans for such things. Another perspective: A Griffin could steal a Queensguard as good as a Vicovaro Medic at the end of the day. And fun fact is that Griffin will provide better Strength then the Vicovaro Medic + Queensguard (since their strength will be reduced to 2) while denying the same tactic. On the case of a Tuirseach Skirmisher though Vicovaro Medic yields better strength. Skellige will have to play around them when relying on resurrection...it is an involved risk which seems acceptable to me.

On final look at the overall picture discard and self-mutilation aspects of Skellige will be strengthened at the cost of increasing risk towards resurrection.

The new skellige archetype by a good deck builder will clearly be the savage bear/ axemen/ new queen card deck. With buffs and wounds carrying over through clear skies, this type of deck will be quite powerful. The bad players can run their discard decks it just wont compare to the new inflict damage/self decks.

 
Nah they just need one beta tester, Back2Kill.

He manage to put 2 account on the top 10 and is going for his third account already rank 12 in few day with an insane winrate.

About the "top 3%" and the "majority".The fact is, that like in any other game with competitive play, the top "3%" will dictate what we call the "meta" and make the "majority" play this or that kind of deck.

If you see so much SCO thining deck it's because in the top 50, it's almost the only deck that is played (not true in fact, but exactly because 47 pple out of 50 play this deck, you can win by playing some other deck that otherwise will not be able to win versus a larger deck pool)

If the balance of the faction was "better" you'll see at least one of each faction deck in the top 10. it's not really the case.

i think cdpr already listen to the community, maybe they should take more into consideration some of the top player comment before releasing patch... but you never really know !

Swim / dunkoro (and other) theorycrafting skill are good, but before last patch they say that ciri dash was trash, the week after she was in every top SCO deck.
 
muetdhivers;n7654210 said:
Swim / dunkoro (and other) theorycrafting skill are good, but before last patch they say that ciri dash was trash, the week after she was in every top SCO deck.

Good point, though Swim is one of the first players that eventually popularized Ciri Dash. Also, the original idea for GUMGUN's PFI deck cam from his college Nub*.

I just named a few off the top of my head. CMEL and Back2Kill are other good examples. I really just mean players like these, not necessarily them specifically.

If you took the top 25 players from ranked and locked them in a room with a new patch you would get a pretty solid idea of what to expect from other players to come up with after a month. Other people have argued that is what this beta is for, but the issue is we are stuck testing these broken builds for 2 months at a time. Actually having these players work hand in hand with CDPR would allow for much better patches, vs releasing it to everyone and watching people get frustrated.
 
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