Which is why I stated it isn't possible for The Witcher 3.
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CDPR said this, not me: "you can traverse any viewable location in the world all the way up to the mountain peaks in the distance...and beyond" - The issue is why they said this when it isn't true. This has more to do with them taking responsibility for saying things at a key point in the games development, the marketing stage.
Do I expect the game to be endless? No. Could CDPR have done the world limitations better? Yes. Should they have made the claims that if you can see it, you can reach it? No. This is the issue. I have concerns that CDPR have sidestepped some of their own ethics by saying these things. Historically they have always been frank, and up front. This kind of stuff is concerning because what path does it lead to for future games/PR?
What I am asking for is why they made these claims at such a crucial point in the games dev/marketing phase. For the reasons I said above.
In many ways I agree with you, but watch the videos and read the quotes. That is NOT what CDPR was trying to claim. Again, I stress the point, this was such a crucial time in the games pre release stage. It was delayed, several times, the hype was massive. They tried to build it up more, which I get. But why say stuff that was not true? This is what I want them to address.
I get both these points but there are islands which are not at the worlds edge, just off the west coast of No Mans Land, I'm not sure about all but there are several which have invisible walls and force you to turn around. This is very much the opposite of (and I quote again CDPR) "you can traverse any viewable location in the world all the way up to the mountain peaks in the distance...and beyond"
Again. How should they have worded it. You can traverse almost all mountan tops and viewable locations, of course the world has to have some boundaries. What you were expecting is not possible, and most gamers knew what CDPR meant with that statment.
They also said that you can easily play the game without reading the books and still get all of the game ... - they lied here.
You see, I get what you are saying, but what you want can NOT be done. Sure, maybe those islands and a few more of the areas can be opened up, true. But no game ever has done what you want, and no game ever will (at least whilst also having content...)
Fallout 3-new vegas=it have invisible walls you can't enter in all buildings
Gta IV-Gta-V= it have invisible walls you can't enter in all buildings
Oblivion-Skyrim=it have invisible walls you can't enter in all buildings..
And those are indeed open worlds games...
Witcher 3 have the same limitation with the difference is way bigger...
So why complain?
Gta IV-Gta-V= it have invisible walls you can't enter in all buildings
Oblivion-Skyrim=it have invisible walls you can't enter in all buildings..
And those are indeed open worlds games...
Witcher 3 have the same limitation with the difference is way bigger...
So why complain?
I think CDPR worked too hard on getting rid of loading screens that they sacrificed the amount of contents(I mean TW3 has enormous amount of contents but wait). Best way to see how open a game is must be comparing it with a great open world game. Skyrim, right? One of the things that makes Skyrim amazingly immersive is the amount of regions that can be explored. There are more than 200 caves and dungeons in this game. Almost every house is accessible provided you know how to lockpick. They could have lowered the number, but they realized it fantastically adds to immersiveness. Now, the reason game developers would want to make a game as open as possible is to give the players the best immersive experience. An open game makes you feel you are really there because the real life is...open.
I think the absence of loading screens is outweighed by a large number of regions to explore when it comes to immersiveness.
Sure TW3 is open in a sense that you can go wherever you want(and let's forget about those countless invisible walls for a moment) but this openess is even maximized when you "know" overwhelmingly many things are out there and you could delve into them right now but you just don't.
I think the absence of loading screens is outweighed by a large number of regions to explore when it comes to immersiveness.
Sure TW3 is open in a sense that you can go wherever you want(and let's forget about those countless invisible walls for a moment) but this openess is even maximized when you "know" overwhelmingly many things are out there and you could delve into them right now but you just don't.
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They should have worded it by saying something like, you can traverse almost anything you can see, or, you can traverse a lot of what you can see. But they didn't. And they made these claims on more than one occasion so I do not believe it was a mistake.
I think you misunderstand what I am expecting. What I am expecting is for CDPR to explain why they chose to use those words, on several occasions, when they knew it would not be possible.
I am not expecting them to make the game more open or remove invisible walls because that does not bother me a great deal. What bothers me is CDPR potentially making the conscious decision to mislead in order to build up hype and demand to boost sales, pre launch.
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As I said in my previous response. What I want is for CDPR to explain why they chose to market the game this way several times when they knew it was not possible.
This is the issue for me. Because I am concerned that there has been a shift in how CDPR market their games. Making false claims and showing the game in a certain way pre launch in order to gain interest, which the final product does not match. This is the type of stuff EA and Ubisoft pull.
CDPR are the good guys and I want it to remain so. Of something couldn't be done or had limits, they would have said this in the past. So again, what I am expecting is for these guys to explain why they did what they did.
That is all.
I think in terms of 'openness', W3 hits the right balance for the type of game it is. The comparison with Skyrim is inevitable but ultimately an unfair one. Skyrim is a lot more 'sandbox' than W3, i.e. there is no compelling story to keep you focused on quests and characters, instead Skyrim focuses on exploration and giving you a bunch of random things to do. W3, on the other hand, has a grand story to tell and it wants you to pay attention, whilst still rewarding you with side-quests and other distractions along the way. They are different games, and as such their approach to game design is different.
Were the devs' claims about openness during promotions for the game entirely correct? No, and it was a mistake to advertise it so publicly, but they made many such errors during the pre-release campaign for W3 and that's OK. CDPR is still a very 'young' company with many things to learn, now and in the future. The fact that they were able to create a much more memorable game than Skyrim with a fraction of the staff and budget is a huge achievement.
Were the devs' claims about openness during promotions for the game entirely correct? No, and it was a mistake to advertise it so publicly, but they made many such errors during the pre-release campaign for W3 and that's OK. CDPR is still a very 'young' company with many things to learn, now and in the future. The fact that they were able to create a much more memorable game than Skyrim with a fraction of the staff and budget is a huge achievement.
I haven't read through all of the replies, just read the OP post, but I'd like to reply anyway.
Open world in games is a concept, not a realistic "open world" like our lovely planet Earth. It's the feel that the game is supposed to deliver, not the premise of endless map in a small round world. The fact that you can go atop the hill to the west of Downwarren, to the place of power, and see half a map away is exactly that, an open world.
Take a look at any other game. Is Skyrim really open world ? No, there are borders even there. World of Warcraft ? Same. GTA5 ? Same. Basically, no matter how huge the world might be in a game, it will always be finite, be it an island surrounded by water, invisible walls, or instant death past a certain point. The question is, how do you feel exploring the world ? Do you feel guided in a linear way along a same path [Witcher 2 style] ? I'm assuming no. The fact that upon arriving to Velen you can say "fuck it, I'm going to Ard Skellige" and actually do that, even if it's seperated by zone, that's the whole point of open world. The freedom to explore a really big map, go where you want, and do what you will.
They have described the feel of it, not the actual mechanical ability to go to the ends of the earth. I ended up a ton of times in a situation where I could see places I've been to from extremely far away, or places I ended up going later. They tried to give you an idea, a concept, which it seems you took too literally.
Open world in games is a concept, not a realistic "open world" like our lovely planet Earth. It's the feel that the game is supposed to deliver, not the premise of endless map in a small round world. The fact that you can go atop the hill to the west of Downwarren, to the place of power, and see half a map away is exactly that, an open world.
Take a look at any other game. Is Skyrim really open world ? No, there are borders even there. World of Warcraft ? Same. GTA5 ? Same. Basically, no matter how huge the world might be in a game, it will always be finite, be it an island surrounded by water, invisible walls, or instant death past a certain point. The question is, how do you feel exploring the world ? Do you feel guided in a linear way along a same path [Witcher 2 style] ? I'm assuming no. The fact that upon arriving to Velen you can say "fuck it, I'm going to Ard Skellige" and actually do that, even if it's seperated by zone, that's the whole point of open world. The freedom to explore a really big map, go where you want, and do what you will.
They have described the feel of it, not the actual mechanical ability to go to the ends of the earth. I ended up a ton of times in a situation where I could see places I've been to from extremely far away, or places I ended up going later. They tried to give you an idea, a concept, which it seems you took too literally.
I am a firm believer that the lack of "caves and dungeons" has more to do with them wanting there to be a reason/story for everything. You can see that from placement of villages, the types of villages, the types of villagers in them. All those spoils of war and wrekage around skellige where there's raiding and storms, yet those are hardly present around Velen. Obviously there is filler stuff in the game, but I think it was always a trade off something like: 3 random caves or a quest like fools gold.
I think it's a difference of design philosophy, not any limitation other than time and they'd rather make a good story filled cave that goes along with large amounts of dialog than a few loot tunnels.
Slightly off topic; I know it's just a game but how many intricate networks of caves do people come across out in the wilderness
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Because few people would take it so literally. We are all gamers here, we should all know that this is impossible, even if the game had a trillion dollar budget...
I understood "Big open world, can go everywhere within the confines, story driven" . That was the message. What you wanted can not be done by humans. Why expect the impossible? Marketing does not change the laws of our universe...
open world or not.. At least for me I really don't like this idea of CDPR in Witcher 3 as Its a RPG genre game & open world ruins many suspense of the game so after 50% of the game completion 2ndary quests, Monsters contracts, ? mark quests are going to be feel like boring to complete as till now you become very much familiar about most of every thing location, monster, characters, lootable items etc. so even if you are going to complete it you are already knowing about everything.
I remember when I am trying to complete Gwent "Play Inn keeps" quest in valen but when I reach Oxenford the gates are closed but I just enter the city from backside swimming & I discover Fast Travel points too so I have access of most of the things without unlocking Oxenford gate which is ridiculous. Now someone going to ask me that why you entered city from backside? that's because I am a curious player & that's why I love RPG games so its but obvious that I am going try different things but its a developers duty to not allow me certain things before proper level to maintain suspense, curiosity as well as game balance which this game not doing at all.
That's why I loved Witcher 1 & 2. Witcher 3 is indeed beautiful game specially with graphics & music but its not a well planned game so many bad decisions developers took like...
1] Its nice to have open world but areas should unlock at some point only may be with skills/quests/items/sign intensity/key etc. which going to maintain game balance as well players curiosity to play further to explore new things.
2] Due to open world we are getting so many advance level armor,swords & other diagrams too & we can craft them too then only restriction is level but as I said in my 1st point this is the problem that game telling us about further things so early which really not makes any sense to me. I mean its ok we are getting advance things but it should be totally locked by name,looks & features till we going to reach that proper level for that stuff.
3] No big maps for caves or other structures no idea why ?
4] No level indication for unknown places quests with ? mark even after discovering it. I mean you have to visit them & have to remember them that what level quests are it is & there are 50+ quests like this all over the map. Why ?? I don't know. This going to be looks ok only when there is a no restriction on level requirement.
5] Level Requirement ? I don't know which developer come with this bullshit idea in open world game. I mean c'mon you want us to play as per quests you have designed then why this restriction ? Ya i know its exactly not a restriction but there is no xp so its indirectly makes no sense to complete that quests.
6] Skills ? There are total 70 skills & only 12 slots why ?? Why there is no passive skills ? Why you are restricting players to use maximum of your developed things? If you think its going to make game easy then just make the game more difficult even when we going to use at least 35 skills.
So finally I just want to say CDPR you have really work hard to design & developed this game but you are restricting players to use many things which indirectly wasting your hard work on those things like...
Grayed out quest - no meaning to complete them except primary once as its necessary to complete the game so all those quest you have designed & developed are just a waste of time IMO.
Skills - You have worked on 70 skills programming but allow users to use only 12. Ya i know different users going to use different skills but indirect its a waste of remaining 58 skills for that player which IMO waste of your hard work.
I just want to suggest CDPR that let us enjoy all your hard work with proper suspense. Just make the game more difficult by giving us opportunity to use more things...Thanks.
I remember when I am trying to complete Gwent "Play Inn keeps" quest in valen but when I reach Oxenford the gates are closed but I just enter the city from backside swimming & I discover Fast Travel points too so I have access of most of the things without unlocking Oxenford gate which is ridiculous. Now someone going to ask me that why you entered city from backside? that's because I am a curious player & that's why I love RPG games so its but obvious that I am going try different things but its a developers duty to not allow me certain things before proper level to maintain suspense, curiosity as well as game balance which this game not doing at all.
That's why I loved Witcher 1 & 2. Witcher 3 is indeed beautiful game specially with graphics & music but its not a well planned game so many bad decisions developers took like...
1] Its nice to have open world but areas should unlock at some point only may be with skills/quests/items/sign intensity/key etc. which going to maintain game balance as well players curiosity to play further to explore new things.
2] Due to open world we are getting so many advance level armor,swords & other diagrams too & we can craft them too then only restriction is level but as I said in my 1st point this is the problem that game telling us about further things so early which really not makes any sense to me. I mean its ok we are getting advance things but it should be totally locked by name,looks & features till we going to reach that proper level for that stuff.
3] No big maps for caves or other structures no idea why ?
4] No level indication for unknown places quests with ? mark even after discovering it. I mean you have to visit them & have to remember them that what level quests are it is & there are 50+ quests like this all over the map. Why ?? I don't know. This going to be looks ok only when there is a no restriction on level requirement.
5] Level Requirement ? I don't know which developer come with this bullshit idea in open world game. I mean c'mon you want us to play as per quests you have designed then why this restriction ? Ya i know its exactly not a restriction but there is no xp so its indirectly makes no sense to complete that quests.
6] Skills ? There are total 70 skills & only 12 slots why ?? Why there is no passive skills ? Why you are restricting players to use maximum of your developed things? If you think its going to make game easy then just make the game more difficult even when we going to use at least 35 skills.
So finally I just want to say CDPR you have really work hard to design & developed this game but you are restricting players to use many things which indirectly wasting your hard work on those things like...
Grayed out quest - no meaning to complete them except primary once as its necessary to complete the game so all those quest you have designed & developed are just a waste of time IMO.
Skills - You have worked on 70 skills programming but allow users to use only 12. Ya i know different users going to use different skills but indirect its a waste of remaining 58 skills for that player which IMO waste of your hard work.
I just want to suggest CDPR that let us enjoy all your hard work with proper suspense. Just make the game more difficult by giving us opportunity to use more things...Thanks.
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I found your post a bit difficult to understand at some points so I might be off base with my response.
-You are asking at the same time for more and less openness, maybe they wanted to let you swim around who knows. They do gate content and locations in the game, I'm guessing not as much as you would like but acces to Velen, skellige and kaer moren is all gated, and quests and some locations are done with high level monsters. If I understand you right you don't want to see those high level monsters or quests until it's time, and that to me is a matter of preference.
3. This is probably a combination of time and design choice. Why would Geralt have a map of these forgotten elven ruins or of someone's house. For immersion it makes sense to not know where you're going. You can get lost but I think that's the point.
4. I agree with this, don't think I would go as far as colouring the "?" But once found it could colour red or green depending on level.
5. I have no issue with how they handled grey quests and monsters, the could have however done a little better job spacing out the main quest levels specifically bloody baron and ladies of the woods.
6. This has got to be one of the major defining features of a RPG. Player choice, you have to be selective in how you want to play you can't get it all. I think it adds to the game I can play it different ways in different playthroughs, or in NG+ swap out for different contracts.
I play grey quests for the content not the experience. So I don't find them pointless.
As I said I like Witcher 1/2 more as both games keeps suspense about further things so I just want to say that open or close no matter but keep that curiosity about high level items/monster or any other things to build up a interest. I know there is story in game but still as this is a RPG we are playing as a Wither character Geralt so enjoying, learning everything step by step by gaining experience which going to help us developing our character make sense but in Witcher 3 till now nothing is surprise me or nothing makes me think or forced me to properly planned on something. Its just a plain simple open world with plain quests.
I am not saying give maps directly as you ever play RPG games map of the caves are locked & only going to reveled as you are moving in caves & In withcer 3 mini map is showing cave map then why not big map appears as a cave map when we are in cave ?
Yehh that's what I am asking Gray for low level quests, green for proper level & red for high level quests & markers going to change the color as par our level goes on. As now low level ? mark quests are feels like joke & waste of time to me.
Its really not about any one have the problem or not but this is RPG so experience is everything I think & its rewarded with XP points to gain level & develop your character, to use advance armor,swords,skills & other things which is exiting so getting xp by doing quests is important thing at least for me so if the quests are not giving xp then even if you complete the quest it feels like waste of time.
For Example - If I have monster contact which is grayed out so why should I compete that quest ? As I already know all type of monsters, I know in the end I have to kill some type of monster only which only going to give me 5xp & few orens so just answer my questions now..
1] I know what that quest is going to be & its grayed out so why should i do that quest ?
2] Don't you thing grayed out quests means waster of time ?
3] If those are not going to give anything then why developers work hard to design n develop that quest ? I found few quests are already grayed out in Skillage due to m high level so why the hell developers wasted time on those quests ? Don't you think its better to give us more high level quests rather then wasting so much time on small quests ?
Dude yes you are right that we need to be selective but if you know for wither 3 there is no hard cap for level so if you going to play NG+ you are going to reach level 70+ I think so till now you are going to unlock so many talents but still you are restricted to use only 12 & are you changing then regularly ??
Even if you are talking about selection many gamers are not changing those skills battle by battle as there is no easy way to do that so indirectly its a waste of 58 skills. as about selection you are only allow to unlock next rows after putting some points in that tree so its really not that selective as If you want the last skills of fast attack row you have to put 30 points in that tree.
What content you are talking about bro ? Killing same monsters or killing same bandits ?? This is what I am saying many quests have same ending where you need to kill either human enemy or monster but if there is a suspense, trap/mystery solving with good rewards then those repetitive things also gives you more fun & makes them more meaningful. I think till now I have only played one quest, i don't remember its name but its in Novigrad below that temple where you have to rotate those statues to get a key which I really like due to something interesting fact other wise most of the quests are like...
1] Get a quest from noticeboard
2] Run here n there to find tracks then Follow the tracks with witcher sense
3] Kill the enemy that's it
I don't know but 1st time I am not enjoying the wither as I enjoyed 1/2 part but may be that's me.. Thanks.
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Dude you are doing quests for experience & what that mean exactly as I know you are getting experience by XP points only. About exploring I don't find there is huge area that you needs a so much time to explore & there is nothing interesting in the witcher world which makes you to really explore areas as you are only going to get bandits, monsters, chests with some stuff which you are going to get by completing those ? mark quests so even if you are going to explorer the world by your own indirectly you are completing those ? mark quests only so after getting those ? quests from notice board sadly there is nothing to explore in so called open world.
Please if possible explain the fun which you feel by completing grayed out quest with example of that quest plezzzzzz
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Experience =/= XP in a game. It means what I felt. For example when I go to experience a roller coaster in real life, I dont get points for it with which to upgrade my puking resistance
... I have an "experience" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/experience
This I think is good enough.
I do greyed out quests to see their story, make an impact on the game world... duh... this is what rewards me.
A world is more than the Ubisoft definition of interesting points. It is vistas, it is the way the landscape is formed, natural and interesting, it is those small, little unmarked details that make it interesting...
hahaha you again fail... When you are going for roller coasting you are gaining experience but this is real life & you are living character in it so you can't measure that experience in points but still you are earning specific experience only say you have earned experience about ""How to roller cost?" or "What it feels while roller coasting" something like that but this is a game so as you said when we are doing something we are getting experience & in game world its reflected with xp points to realize that you got experience but if game is not giving you experienced points means you have not learn anything..Right??
You kidding me.. what kind of story you are getting by completing grayed out 2ndary quests or by destroying/killing bandits & monsters ?? & how 2ndary or ? mark quests have impact on game world ? that;s why I ask you for example bro... ;P
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