CDPR vindicated those who doubted their promise

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I'm disappointed with CDPR. I was let down by their bug infested release and I am now equally disappointed by their dismissive approach to Cyberpunk 2077. This is not the game you promised. I held judgement to see if you would correct the wrongs but it's clear now that you favor abandoning that which you did not properly deliver. Hello Games took No Man's Sky and after 6 years are still delivering brand new content. You promised to support this IP, yet now you offer one expansion? Really? I guess time will tell, we'll see what the next patch offers. But you seem to be abandoning Cyberpunk when you promised to double down. Again, maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am.

Thoughts?
Yep, it doesn't seem particularly fixed to me either, I'm still seeing a lot of the problems I encountered on XB1 on the XBX, and even some new ones that I didn't. I guess the "next gen version" simply meant a graphics/fps upgrade rather than a fixed version for next gen. As I see it right now, it's still not worth the full price I paid for it on release, until that much, at least, happens, I wont be spending more money on it to buy the expansion(s).
 
Yep, it doesn't seem particularly fixed to me either, I'm still seeing a lot of the problems I encountered on XB1 on the XBX, and even some new ones that I didn't. I guess the "next gen version" simply meant a graphics/fps upgrade rather than a fixed version for next gen. As I see it right now, it's still not worth the full price I paid for it on release, until that much, at least, happens, I wont be spending more money on it to buy the expansion(s).
Latest version brought me slowly loading locations and Evelyn Parker, standing on her bed. Eventually she ended her life and started Judy's quest chain, but still.
 

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Like I mentioned earlier... Cyberpunk reminds me of The Witcher 3 if the game started at the Isle of Mists with a montage of events before it. Would it have still been absolutely amazing? Yes. Would it have been nearly as good of a game? Certainly not, in my opinion.
For me, 6 months montage being playable in CP2077 would be the equivalent of making those few months Geralt and Vesemir had spent traveling together playable.
CP2077's story isn't about Jackie anymore than TW3's was about Vesemir. TW3 didn't give Vesemir hours and hours of screentime before he was killed off.
 
For me, 6 months montage being playable in CP2077 would be the equivalent of making those few months Geralt and Vesemir had spent traveling together playable.
CP2077's story isn't about Jackie anymore than TW3's was about Vesemir. TW3 didn't give Vesemir hours and hours of screentime before he was killed off.
And Jackie's death doesn't cause player to grieve as V did, thus leading to serious disconnection from V.
 

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And Jackie's death doesn't cause player to grieve as V did, thus leading to serious disconnection from V.
Are you sure that this is a widespread issue? He seems to be one of the most popular characters in the game (after Panam and Judy), so I'm guessing most people didn't feel indifferent toward his death.
From what I saw, the reason people ask for 6 months montage to be playable is because they wanted the entire main story to be about rising through the ranks with your buddy, getting rich and famous and becoming NC legends.
Besides, I feel people are often exaggerating the impact his death is having on the story and V. V is not dealing with the trauma and PTSD caused by losing Jackie. V is trying to find a way to survive and Jackie is mostly the topic reserved for conversations with Misty and his mom.
 
From what I saw, the reason people ask for 6 months montage to be playable is because they wanted the entire main story to be about rising through the ranks with your buddy, getting rich and famous and becoming NC legends.
I think it's more that people want to feel that V already has some reputation in NC before getting the heist job, cause it's a bit difficult to justify going through side content when trying to truly roleplay an terminally "ill" character. For me they could have achieve this simply by not limiting player in Act 1 to Watson and made meeting with Dex a little less... imminent, to give player more room to decide if they want to first explore NC, do the gigs and get some reputation before jumping into MQ.
 
Are you sure that this is a widespread issue? He seems to be one of the most popular characters in the game (after Panam and Judy), so I'm guessing most people didn't feel indifferent toward his death.
From what I saw, the reason people ask for 6 months montage to be playable is because they wanted the entire main story to be about rising through the ranks with your buddy, getting rich and famous and becoming NC legends.
Besides, I feel people are often exaggerating the impact his death is having on the story and V. V is not dealing with the trauma and PTSD caused by losing Jackie. V is trying to find a way to survive and Jackie is mostly the topic reserved for conversations with Misty and his mom.
You're probably right. Still, modern fictions, imho, suffers from a general problem — lack of a character exposition. After 15 m of prologue, montage and only two missions, including the Heist, many people still don't feel connection to Jackie strong enough to properly grief, as they should, as the very game implies via tragic organe music of Jackie's death etc.

A handful of gigs and peaceful interludes with Jackie (for example, dinner in Mama Welles' place) would suffice. Moreover, the game would only win from the companion mechanic, even simple Skyrim-like. Ability to take chooms on gigs would add the spice and help to form an additional connection.
 
You're probably right. Still, modern fictions, imho, suffers from a general problem — lack of a character exposition. After 15 m of prologue, montage and only two missions, including the Heist, many people still don't feel connection to Jackie strong enough to properly grief, as they should, as the very game implies via tragic organe music of Jackie's death etc.

A handful of gigs and peaceful interludes with Jackie (for example, dinner in Mama Welles' place) would suffice. Moreover, the game would only win from the companion mechanic, even simple Skyrim-like. Ability to take chooms on gigs would add the spice and help to form an additional connection.
Yea sadly i think your right about this. Jackie wasent really a huge loss for me, felt much worse with Evelyn and started considering what too do next playtrough too save her (i was pretty slow in getting too her). I thought i would save Jackie too btw, was sure i must have missed something and rerolled too stealth trough the heist perfectly.

I just felt weird at his funeral too! like wtf i barely know this character im supposed too hold a eulogy? Perhaps this is what they were going for? making you feel uncomfortable? Its also a bit weird that as a corpo you know him from before but its never really used exept for why V contacts him... Theres alot of these small things that i guess is worldbuilding but you know nothing about.
 
Yea sadly i think your right about this. Jackie wasent really a huge loss for me, felt much worse with Evelyn and started considering what too do next playtrough too save her (i was pretty slow in getting too her). I thought i would save Jackie too btw, was sure i must have missed something and rerolled too stealth trough the heist perfectly.

I just felt weird at his funeral too! like wtf i barely know this character im supposed too hold a eulogy? Perhaps this is what they were going for? making you feel uncomfortable? Its also a bit weird that as a corpo you know him from before but its never really used exept for why V contacts him... Theres alot of these small things that i guess is worldbuilding but you know nothing about.
And, of course, as was mentioned countless times, Jackie's death next to V, who's pocket could be full of healing items, felt weird. One short phrase about, i dunno, unliky hit in some life-crucial implant (artificial heart, for example), would be enough, but nooo.
 
plotline deaths feel weird in most games - because they often seems unlogical. the only good one I encountered the last years was the one in Last of Us 2... which was also super surprising and really felt like "wtf... "
 
Yea sadly i think your right about this. Jackie wasent really a huge loss for me, felt much worse with Evelyn and started considering what too do next playtrough too save her (i was pretty slow in getting too her). I thought i would save Jackie too btw, was sure i must have missed something and rerolled too stealth trough the heist perfectly.

I just felt weird at his funeral too! like wtf i barely know this character im supposed too hold a eulogy? Perhaps this is what they were going for? making you feel uncomfortable? Its also a bit weird that as a corpo you know him from before but its never really used exept for why V contacts him... Theres alot of these small things that i guess is worldbuilding but you know nothing about.

Someone brought up Jackie's death vs. Vesemir in The Witcher 3.

When Jackie died I honestly didn't really care at all. You meet him briefly in the hour long prologue, you drive through the city with him, see him in the cutscene thing and he seems like a dope that gets you into a bad spot with Dex. Then he dies super early on in the story - like before the actual game really gets underway since 'Act 1' is almost like an extended tutorial.

Vesemir starts the game with you in The Witcher 3 and they quickly establish him as a legitimate mentor - not a total dope. You see his relationship with Ciri, you see him caring for people and interact with him from White Orchard all of the way to the eventual showdown with the Wild Hunt. You see him bond not only with Geralt, but with Ciri and the other Witchers... not through quick hitting cut scenes, but through legit dialogue and interaction. So when he died it was a big deal to me.

As an example... when Jackie passes you end up going to meet his Mom. Why do I care about her? I've never really met her before - I guess I saw her in a cutscene maybe (don't even remember at this point, tbh). Misty is upset, but you have barely established any kind of real relationship with her... you basically just met her - she ends up being a character you get more attached to after his death.

If they wanted you to care about his death they should have involved his Mother and played up their relationship more early on. They should have given you a bigger dose of how in love he was with Misty. They should have showed you how he helped people in Night City and was one of the few 'good guys' around that actually wanted to help people - including you. They should have had him sacrifice for you and you sacrifice for him... this would have been ANOTHER benefit of having the heist happen later in the game and/or being able to play out the cutscene to get to actually know all of these characters rather than them just briefly flashing in front of your face.
 
As an example... when Jackie passes you end up going to meet his Mom. Why do I care about her? I've never really met her before - I guess I saw her in a cutscene maybe (don't even remember at this point, tbh). Misty is upset, but you have barely established any kind of real relationship with her... you basically just met her - she ends up being a character you get more attached to after his death.

If they wanted you to care about his death they should have involved his Mother and played up their relationship more early on. They should have given you a bigger dose of how in love he was with Misty. They should have showed you how he helped people in Night City and was one of the few 'good guys' around that actually wanted to help people - including you. They should have had him sacrifice for you and you sacrifice for him... this would have been ANOTHER benefit of having the heist happen later in the game and/or being able to play out the cutscene to get to actually know all of these characters rather than them just briefly flashing in front of your face.
Just a question that I wonder :
How CDPR would add more "play time" with each characters, but keeping the game as "long" as it is now ?
Like more with Misty, more with T-Bug, more with Mama Wells (who appear in the "6 months cutscene", V lived in her house for almost the 6 months), more with Evy (V discuss with her only once during the Pickup), more Meredith, more Sandra Dorsett, more V with Bakkers Nomad, more V as corpo and so on...
 
Just a question that I wonder :
How CDPR would add more "play time" with each characters, but keeping the game as "long" as it is now ?
Like more with Misty, more with T-Bug, more with Mama Wells (who appear in the "6 months cutscene", V lived in her house for almost the 6 months), more with Evy (V discuss with her only once during the Pickup) and so on...

1. They push the heist back later in the story, thus giving you more time with Jackie and the people around him, but less time with Silverhand.

Or

2. They make the game longer.
 
Someone brought up Jackie's death vs. Vesemir in The Witcher 3.

When Jackie died I honestly didn't really care at all. You meet him briefly in the hour long prologue, you drive through the city with him, see him in the cutscene thing and he seems like a dope that gets you into a bad spot with Dex. Then he dies super early on in the story - like before the actual game really gets underway since 'Act 1' is almost like an extended tutorial.

Vesemir starts the game with you in The Witcher 3 and they quickly establish him as a legitimate mentor - not a total dope. You see his relationship with Ciri, you see him caring for people and interact with him from White Orchard all of the way to the eventual showdown with the Wild Hunt. You see him bond not only with Geralt, but with Ciri and the other Witchers... not through quick hitting cut scenes, but through legit dialogue and interaction. So when he died it was a big deal to me.

As an example... when Jackie passes you end up going to meet his Mom. Why do I care about her? I've never really met her before - I guess I saw her in a cutscene maybe (don't even remember at this point, tbh). Misty is upset, but you have barely established any kind of real relationship with her... you basically just met her - she ends up being a character you get more attached to after his death.

If they wanted you to care about his death they should have involved his Mother and played up their relationship more early on. They should have given you a bigger dose of how in love he was with Misty. They should have showed you how he helped people in Night City and was one of the few 'good guys' around that actually wanted to help people - including you. They should have had him sacrifice for you and you sacrifice for him... this would have been ANOTHER benefit of having the heist happen later in the game and/or being able to play out the cutscene to get to actually know all of these characters rather than them just briefly flashing in front of your face.
One of the many reasons why cp77 is definitely too short.
 
Someone brought up Jackie's death vs. Vesemir in The Witcher 3.

When Jackie died I honestly didn't really care at all. You meet him briefly in the hour long prologue, you drive through the city with him, see him in the cutscene thing and he seems like a dope that gets you into a bad spot with Dex. Then he dies super early on in the story - like before the actual game really gets underway since 'Act 1' is almost like an extended tutorial.

Vesemir starts the game with you in The Witcher 3 and they quickly establish him as a legitimate mentor - not a total dope. You see his relationship with Ciri, you see him caring for people and interact with him from White Orchard all of the way to the eventual showdown with the Wild Hunt. You see him bond not only with Geralt, but with Ciri and the other Witchers... not through quick hitting cut scenes, but through legit dialogue and interaction. So when he died it was a big deal to me.

As an example... when Jackie passes you end up going to meet his Mom. Why do I care about her? I've never really met her before - I guess I saw her in a cutscene maybe (don't even remember at this point, tbh). Misty is upset, but you have barely established any kind of real relationship with her... you basically just met her - she ends up being a character you get more attached to after his death.

If they wanted you to care about his death they should have involved his Mother and played up their relationship more early on. They should have given you a bigger dose of how in love he was with Misty. They should have showed you how he helped people in Night City and was one of the few 'good guys' around that actually wanted to help people - including you. They should have had him sacrifice for you and you sacrifice for him... this would have been ANOTHER benefit of having the heist happen later in the game and/or being able to play out the cutscene to get to actually know all of these characters rather than them just briefly flashing in front of your face.
Ok a question. Does the game at some point take control of V and tells you that yes, V cares about Jackie? Because when I played it I was always given options whether I did or didn't.
 
1. They push the heist back later in the story, thus giving you more time with Jackie and the people around him, but less time with Silverhand.
Or
2. They make the game longer.
1. Strange, knowing that the "main plot" is V trying to find a way to survive.
2. Like I said, impossible. They want to not make the game longer (if you browse the forum, almost every characters in the game don't have enough screen time). So CDPR would end with a 200 hours game, at minimum :)
Ok a question. Does the game at some point take control of V and tells you that yes, V cares about Jackie? Because when I played it I was always given options whether I did or didn't.
Yep, you can say to Mama Wells that you won't come to the offrenda or you can stay sit when you are able to speak for example.
 
For these that bring that Jackie's death could be prevented with taking air hypo - he took one. If you go to him fast enough you see him taking it. His problem was that he had major internal bleeding, as delamain tells you. V was in very similar situation in the car with Takemura. But V ended up at a ripperdock who could save their lives (and maybe the chip helped I don't know) while Jackie didn't.
 
I imagine Jackie's death didn't affect each player in the same way.
She's certainely not alone (at the right time until 24:58) :
PS : interesting reaction from her too, when Jackie start talk about the chip (21:52)...
"ho... forget about it !!!"
His problem was that he had major internal bleeding, as delamain tells you.
External iliac artery is ruptured (no way to fix it with a health item, he require a ripperdoc, immediately)

Edit : but it's not the first game where a character who seem "important" for the main character die quickly. Henry's parents in KCD or even Jenkins in Mass Effect 1 (he die almost right when you land during the very first quest to let the place for Ash, but if I remember, Shepard can, if players want, talk about him and how she/he's affected by his death in ME2 and even at the very end of ME3)
 
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Yea we have tryed too settle this menny times, nobody will change there opinion (as is there right). Ive been trying too see both sides of this but at times its really hard. Its just one of those games when people never can agree i guess. Some like it, some hate it, some are meh about it. Not much too do about it.
 
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