CDPR vindicated those who doubted their promise

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And? Have you even read my comment that batouyukinawa was responding to? Do you understand the context of batouyukinawa's comment?
Maybe I'm wrong, but for my understanding, he meant that it would be better if the game had "another main story". I.e V and Jackie living a merc life in Night City freely during the whole game, then adding a DLC with the current story (Relic/Johnny). A little bit like if in TW3, CDPR openend directly the whole map to let us live a witcher life freely right at the beginning and then added a DLC/expansion with the Wild Hunt and Ciri....
But "V and Jackie" was not the story that CDPR wanted to write.
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but for my understanding, he meant that it would be better if the game had "another main story". I.e V and Jackie living a merc life in Night City freely during the whole game, then adding a DLC with the current story (Relic/Johnny). A little bit like if in TW3, CDPR openend directly the whole map to let us live a witcher life freely right at the beginning and then added a DLC/expansion with the Wild Hunt and Ciri....
But "V and Jackie" was not the story that CDPR wanted to write.
This is what I had wrote:
I think it's more that people want to feel that V already has some reputation in NC before getting the heist job, cause it's a bit difficult to justify going through side content when trying to truly roleplay an terminally "ill" character. For me they could have achieve this simply by not limiting player in Act 1 to Watson and made meeting with Dex a little less... imminent, to give player more room to decide if they want to first explore NC, do the gigs and get some reputation before jumping into MQ.
This is what batouyukinawa had wrote in response to my comment (note the bolded fragment):
You bring up a great point. Almost as if the DLC should have been the JS story while the base game was about V and Jackie. Would have allowed more connection the city and it's gangs. Once that world building had been established you throw on the terminally ill thread while Jackie V's best friend deals with his impending death.
And this is what lyin321 had wrote (again, bolded text):
No he doesn't. Please stop trying to take away our custom character and replace it with one that is not.
So what lyin321 is saying is that I don't "bring up a great point" and that what I brought somehow "take away our custom character and replace it with one that is not", which is a total nonsense. batouyukinawa's take on what I wrote is a bit farfetched (spliting story so that JS plot works like a DLC), but in a context of my comment it's pretty clear that it in no way would take away any customisation to the player's character.
 
Getting a little personal with some of the comments, here. Focus is shifting from the topic...into areas of personal judgement and criticism. I have an arrangement of marshmallow-delivery devices for just such scenarios. (Opens his coat. Small arms. Explosives. Magazines of various calibers. All of which drip with gooey sweetness.)


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That being said, both arguments are valid ones.

Developing a character that is part of a narrative requires a certain level of framing that limits what is done in other games that use a sandbox approach. None of CDPR's games, including CP2077, have ever been "sandboxes". They have all been narratively driven and focused on an established character -- not a blank-slate character.

In TW3, we see that it's very possible to have a lot of wiggle room in there that allows for players to define who "Geralt" is. Ironically, though CP2077 let players fully customize the appearance and skills of "V", the narrative felt a lot more restrictive to a lot of people, and that left them feeling as if their character choices didn't really matter as much.

Can we throw aside the idea of what has been established about V already? No, that would be a disaster that would invalidate much of the narrative.

Do we have to limit it further by defining it more? No, but it will at least need to fit in with what has already been established.

To create a truly "sandbox" player character, CDPR would probably have to introduce a totally new set of missions that did not involve V. Players would create a new character and just play through standalone content.
 
That being said, both arguments are valid ones.

Developing a character that is part of a narrative requires a certain level of framing that limits what is done in other games that use a sandbox approach. None of CDPR's games, including CP2077, have ever been "sandboxes". They have all been narratively driven and focused on an established character -- not a blank-slate character.

In TW3, we see that it's very possible to have a lot of wiggle room in there that allows for players to define who "Geralt" is. Ironically, though CP2077 let players fully customize the appearance and skills of "V", the narrative felt a lot more restrictive to a lot of people, and that left them feeling as if their character choices didn't really matter as much.

Can we throw aside the idea of what has been established about V already? No, that would be a disaster that would invalidate much of the narrative.

Do we have to limit it further by defining it more? No, but it will at least need to fit in with what has already been established.

To create a truly "sandbox" player character, CDPR would probably have to introduce a totally new set of missions that did not involve V. Players would create a new character and just play through standalone content.
I agree. I liked w3 much more since it felt like i hade more choice in who Geralt was. He was allways a grumpy witcher but i hade choices in his morality/choices. In Cp2077 it feels much more pre determend with a larger freedom in other aspects.

Elevator with wounded Jackie for example. 2 choices both yelling at him. Theres no real choice there. Got that feeling alot of the time that whatever i choose did not change anything at all, not even the tone of the line said. Another one of the top of my head. Limo with Dex, mentions Meredith. Im corpo so i explain her motivations too him, he just looks at me and pretty much says: Cool, back on topic. Its fine in it self but i expected something else.
 
What I gather is people are upset that they aren't really playing the V they want. Like it's their own personal story instead of the one laid out by CDPR. Well, too bad. That's how this works. Do you read a book and get upset you don't get to change the way the the story goes in the book? I get that V could have been more fleshed out but each lifepath gave a background of both Jackie and V and it's not like they were noobs at what they got hired to do for the heist
 
What I gather is people are upset that they aren't really playing the V they want. Like it's their own personal story instead of the one laid out by CDPR. Well, too bad. That's how this works. Do you read a book and get upset you don't get to change the way the the story goes in the book? I get that V could have been more fleshed out but each lifepath gave a background of both Jackie and V and it's not like they were noobs at what they got hired to do for the heist

Books don't advertise branching paths or choices though. Games like Cyberpunk 2077 do.

That is not a very good comparison.

If I bought a book that was written and marketed off having choices in it where you could jump to different pages to choose your path... then yes, I would be annoyed if it didn't actually have that... even if I ended up enjoying the story and characters.
 
What I gather is people are upset that they aren't really playing the V they want. Like it's their own personal story instead of the one laid out by CDPR. Well, too bad. That's how this works. Do you read a book and get upset you don't get to change the way the the story goes in the book? I get that V could have been more fleshed out but each lifepath gave a background of both Jackie and V and it's not like they were noobs at what they got hired to do for the heist
No, people are upset that most of the side content is unlocked after the heist, so there's no good way to roleplay an actual mercenary and do these quests, that CDPR designed and put into the game for players to experience, without feeling total disconection from main story and V's terminal state.

Also games and books are two very different mediums. The whole point of games is to give player agency in advancing the story, especially in supposed open world RPGs, so this comparison is really pointless.
 
Personally, I'm fine with V how they are. I mean, there's not much to their backstories, which gives the player an opportunity to headcanon to fill in the blanks. For example, my street kid had a shitty home life and was raised by his neighborhood pretty much. My corpo had parents and a younger brother, but his parents had expectations of him that were far too high. They disowned him after he got fired from Arasaka. His little brother hates him and tries to kill him...twice, but V kills him after the last attempt. Who's to say that you can't create a world around your V? You can. Or am I missing the point?
 
No, people are upset that most of the side content is unlocked after the heist, so there's no good way to roleplay an actual mercenary and do these quests, that CDPR designed and put into the game for players to experience, without feeling total disconection from main story and V's terminal state.

Also games and books are two very different mediums. The whole point of games is to give player agency in advancing the story, especially in supposed open world RPGs, so this comparison is really pointless.
I didn't do the heist until I was damn near level 20. There's enough side stuff to do and I get the frustration of being gated from the entire game until after the heist. The book comparison was about the character not the book/game to which people are upset that they don't really get to play their V. This is setup no different than the Witcher so that's why I don't get all the fuss.

Biggest issue is that the main story is written in such a way that side missions detract from it. V had weeks to live yet I went probably months in game while doing all the side missions, gigs, ncpd scanners, vehicle purchases, cyberpsycho quest ect. From the heist to waking up after being killed is a very fast story with filler that doesn't really align with it.
 
Who's to say that you can't create a world around your V? You can. Or am I missing the point?
Nobody says that you cant do that. Play the game how you want. I would not have liked it if i started the game and i played V getting born, growing up, school (if theres still schools in the cp universe) Backstory isent really the issue, atleast not for me. Pacing, character development and lack of choices is my biggest gripes. Also the duality of "your dying, hurry" ooooh side quest! Ooh GIG. Go there kill that yay.

I didn't do the heist until I was damn near level 20. There's enough side stuff to do and I get the frustration of being gated from the entire game until after the heist. The book comparison was about the character not the book/game to which people are upset that they don't really get to play their V. This is setup no different than the Witcher so that's why I don't get all the fuss.

Biggest issue is that the main story is written in such a way that side missions detract from it. V had weeks to live yet I went probably months in game while doing all the side missions, gigs, ncpd scanners, vehicle purchases, cyberpsycho quest ect. From the heist to waking up after being killed is a very fast story with filler that doesn't really align with it.
I did too in one of my attempts at a playtrough, i cleaned out Watson totally too try too save Jackie somehow in the heist (i restarted because i though there must be some way of saving him, right?). Playing the opening 2 times in a fairly short amount of time kinda ruined the game somewhat for me i think. The illusion was broken. Also the witcher was based on a book series, with a pre determend character. Its pretty easy too see that you will have less choice in how the character behaves. Still you could change some things(i would argue: much more then in this game).

Cp2077 was set in the future using a universe that was from a PnP game. It invented its own main character, they could have done whatever they wanted(except for what Pondsmith says i guess). I would have been more fine with this game i think if it was about JS and you hade no choice in character creator.

I wrote alot more but it just turns into the same arguments every single time. The game just isent for me, it sounded like my perfect game and ive been waiting since the very first teaser trailer since i love the universe.
 
I didn't do the heist until I was damn near level 20.
That's not what we are talking about.
There's enough side stuff to do and I get the frustration of being gated from the entire game until after the heist.
This is exactly the problem we are talking about - being limited by the game to only Watson and opening the game after the heist, when the stakes are much higher.
The book comparison was about the character not the book/game to which people are upset that they don't really get to play their V. This is setup no different than the Witcher so that's why I don't get all the fuss.
Nope, you wrote about the story, not character:
Do you read a book and get upset you don't get to change the way the the story goes in the book?


Biggest issue is that the main story is written in such a way that side missions detract from it. V had weeks to live yet I went probably months in game while doing all the side missions, gigs, ncpd scanners, vehicle purchases, cyberpsycho quest ect. From the heist to waking up after being killed is a very fast story with filler that doesn't really align with it.
It seems like you know exactly why people are upset, taking that you came up to this conclusion.
 
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No, people are upset that most of the side content is unlocked after the heist, so there's no good way to roleplay an actual mercenary and do these quests, that CDPR designed and put into the game for players to experience, without feeling total disconection
But is not the same in 99% or more of RPGs with side content?
I mean in the TW3 if you spend 100 hours doing contracts,playing cards etc i guess you are roleplaying a bad father?
I cannot buy this "disconnect" in cp2077 as a deal breaker compared with TW3, is more a "i didn't like the story so i'm less willing to overlook the faults"
 
But is not the same in 99% or more of RPGs with side content?
I mean in the TW3 if you spend 100 hours doing contracts,playing cards etc i guess you are roleplaying a bad father?
I cannot buy this "disconnect" in cp2077 as a deal breaker compared with TW3, is more a "i didn't like the story so i'm less willing to overlook the faults"
That's the difference between pseudomedieval fantasy setting where you play as vagabond on horseback with little to no possesion, trying to find single person in a huge world, and a high-tech cyberpunk setting, where you play as a dying mercenary with car, flat, phone, net, etc. trying to find a solution for their condition all within a single city.

In the first case it is plausible to do side content without feeling like you are completely failing at looking for Ciri. Sure, the game doesn't force player to make Geralt eat, sleep, etc., but as a wandering monster hunter it is pretty obvious that Geralt needs a means to live to be able to search for Ciri, because if he would die of starvation or exhaustion what sort of "good father" would he be? That means, that doing some contracts or a game of Gwent at night in the inn to earn some coin and pay for current needs is still in the realm of possibility when searching for a person in a world as vast as the one in Witcher 3, which gives player a room for a logically plausible headcanon.

In CP77 simillar way of thinking doesn't hold up. Not only the world is more condensed and lore-wise V has more ways to traverse it in a timely manner (car, public transit, etc.), V doesn't really need doing jobs to survive because they already have a good basis for living in NC. Because of that you can't really create a logical headcanon that would explain why V did some gig for fixer while being on the run to find a solution for a pretty serious case of literally dying. Not to mention that in Witcher 3 there is a possibility to do the side content after main storyline as a way of further telling Geralt's story after the ending, while in CP77 V is always on a deathbed, as after beating the main storyline you are thrown back to point before meeting Hanako, so doing side content at this point still feels off with constant relic malfunctions and Johnny popping up everywhere.

If you're unable to see the difference here, then I can't do anything about it.
 
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Sure, the game doesn't force player to make Geralt eat, sleep, etc., but as a wandering monster hunter it is pretty obvious that Geralt needs a means to live to be able to search for Ciri, because if he would die of starvation or exhaustion what sort of "good father" would he be? That means, that doing some contracts or a game of Gwent at night in the inn to earn some coin and pay for current needs is still in the realm of possibility when searching for a person in a world as vast as the one in Witcher 3, which gives player a room for a logically plausible headcanon
Its a while but i think just after meeting Yen youmeet the emperor and you know, would bet he can spare few coins and equipment before sending you to search Ciri...no need to take a reward-since you don't do that for money-,but equip yourself there i don't know seems reasonable.
I mean, i've found that disconnection at that point...you didn't its fine no need to:
you're unable to see the difference here, then I can't do anything about it
 
Its a while but i think just after meeting Yen youmeet the emperor and you know, would bet he can spare few coins and equipment before sending you to search Ciri...no need to take a reward-since you don't do that for money-,but equip yourself there i don't know seems reasonable.
That's the thing - it could have happened, but it's up to player what headcanon they will create for their playthrough. For some they can roleplay as if emperor gave Geralt some coin and equipment and go into the world with a sole purpose of finding Ciri, others can play as if emperor gave Geralt nothing but orders and it's up to the witcher to search for Ciri while also taking care of his basic needs. Both of these approaches are absolutely OK because there's room in the game for both of them. This is exactly what CP77 is missing.
 
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, but it's up to player what headcanon they will create for their playthrough. For some they can roleplay as if emperor gave Geralt some coin and equipment and go into the world with a sole purpose of finding Ciri,

No you can't, i have an inventory ...other than what i stoled from the palace i don't have net gain from the audience (dont remember if i keep the clothes)...
This is exactly what CP77 is missing.
3 hours of gameplay is 1 in-game day,45 hours is 2 weeks. I don't know exactly Viks words (weeks?),but assuming between 20 to 90 hours per playthrough i don't need any headcanon to think i'm just collecting resources and finding allies to try to save myself.
And thats the point, in one game i was "wtf" and in the other you are...both make 0 sense from lots of perspectives...like all videogames... only difference in one you overlooked its faults,in the other not...but many of the faults are exactly the same.
 
3 hours of gameplay is 1 in-game day,45 hours is 2 weeks. I don't know exactly Viks words (weeks?)
Viktor : "few weeks at top" (so it could be 2 or 10...)
Let's take 5 weeks to stay in the middle (35 in game days), it mean 105 hours of play time (which is more than the average play time I think) :)
 
No you can't, i have an inventory ...other than what i stoled from the palace i don't have net gain from the audience (dont remember if i keep the clothes)...
You are mixing two things - roleplaying and gameplay. You can roleplay as if that happened even if you don't have the money and equipment in the inventory, similarly how you can roleplay eating or sleeping to survive, even if the game doesn't have any machnics for these activities. This "emperor gave Geralt coin and equipment" headcanon is only used to explain why in given playthrough player wouldn't do side content - Geralt is set and focused, so the only thing he should logically do is to search for Ciri.
3 hours of gameplay is 1 in-game day,45 hours is 2 weeks. I don't know exactly Viks words (weeks?),but assuming between 20 to 90 hours per playthrough i don't need any headcanon to think i'm just collecting resources and finding allies to try to save myself.
And thats the point, in one game i was "wtf" and in the other you are...both make 0 sense from lots of perspectives...like all videogames... only difference in one you overlooked its faults,in the other not...but many of the faults are exactly the same.
Viktor : "few weeks at top" (so it could be 2 or 10...)
Let's take 5 weeks to stay in the middle (35 in game days), it mean 105 hours of play time (which is more than the average play time I think) :)
It's not about timeframe, but about severity of V's condition. No matter if Vic means 5 or 10 weeks, he says that V is dying and that they should find a way to yank relic out of their head ASAP. And because V is living in a futuristic city with a multiple ways to swiftly move around it and multiple ways to quickly contact other people living there, there's no logical explanation as to why they would delay their search for the relic issue.
 
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