CDPR, will you please fix the Wardancer already?

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CDPR, will you please fix the Wardancer already?

I don't know how many games I've lost because of this BRONZE 3 STR card (3 just this morning). So often I forfeit the first round, just cause I know I do not have carryover or a Spy to deal with this card in R2 (than comes Yaevin and you are double screwed, triple if you've lost the CF). And this is not an observation coming from me only, it's a consensus through the entire community.

There are few suggestions already:

- make it drop on the board only when Swapped with Officers or Saskia;

- or (my personal favorite) make it drop as an Ambush that will turn end of your turn (just like Ronvid ticks, a mechanic that should be applied on cards like Olgierd and maybe Morkvarg) or even at the start of your next turn. This will also open you space to develop a Silver, maybe a Gold Card with familiar mechanic in the future, so one would not know if this is Wardancer or that said card. This will also give Wardancers synergy with Braenn as she does need some help out there.
 
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partci;n10540762 said:
(my personal favorite) make it drop as an Ambush that will turn end of your turn (just like Ronvid ticks, a mechanic that should be applied on cards like Olgierd and maybe Morkvarg) or even at the start of your next turn. This will also open you space to develop a Silver, maybe a Gold Card with familiar mechanic in the future, so one would not know if this is Wardancer or that said card. This will also give Wardancers synergy with Braenn as she does need some help out there.
+1, just had a similar suggestion this morning in a different thread (suggested to flip on next card play, which is pretty much the same)

As an added bonus, it would make Wardancer just slightly less crappy when they get stuck in your hand, playing a mind game on the opponent. :)
 
Wardancer should be like Daerlan Footsoldiers; just a mechanic to help enable mulligan and give them a special 'thing' that they have. Though the problem there is wardancer is just worse than the elven buff guy.
 
I don't know about "entire community"... Some people clearly don't have a problem with it.

So wardancer should get fixed just so you could dry pass round two? Why not get rid of round two all together?

Yes, a wardancer is "good" when you carry it over because it can't be countered, but it's also a terrible card if you draw it at the wrong time.

I would have no problem with making the Dancer like Daerlan Footsoldiers, as long as Scoia Swap gets as many Swap-based ability cards as NG has Reveal-based cards. Right now Swap archetype has 3 bronzes, 1 gold and a leader. NG has... 19? I mean, wtf.
 
If they remove Wardancer, they need to give ST some carry-over. (As well as NR and NG.) Or fix carry-over completely. Wardancer is in general not the problem; the problem is coin-flip and carry-over. Wardancer is not much stronger than any other carryover card in the game.

One thing that Wardancer can do that in the current state of the game no card should, though, is to deny dry-passing first round. So I lose coin-flip against abuse ST. I want to dry-pass R1 to avoid getting screwed by CF abuse; no, you can't. That is just mean.

But if they fix CF (see my suggestion in the sub-forum), then no one would have to dry-pass R1, and I guess Wardancer would be alright.
 
So just because a card is good an included often it's OP? No one said that there is an unspoken rule in Gwent which gives you the right to drypass round 2. Actually, drypassing itself is a powerful tool and I think it's not terrible that there is a singular card in the game which prevents that without being played in the prior round. Additionally, Wardancer existed in this form for a long time in Gwent. Complaining about it now because it sees some value in the current meta which might as well change before the beta even ends seems a little cheap in my opinion.
 
TigersEye120;n10543162 said:
So just because a card is good an included often it's OP?...

This is no Slyzard. It's a game winning BRONZE card. The effect is insanely good and punishing. This between rounds effect is not an effect that a Bronze card should have. It is not an effect ANY card should have, cause it kills your opponent dead. Even discarded Olgierd you can deal with with Necromancy. Wardancers just wins a game by itself way too often.
 
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Barracuda88;n10543112 said:
The attached inclusion rates are basically for Brouver's Mulligan deck, NOT scoiatael. Foglet is 100-percent included in Dagon's decks. Let's nerf the foglet.

It is for four leaders at high rank
 
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Barracuda88;n10542472 said:
I would have no problem with making the Dancer like Daerlan Footsoldiers, as long as Scoia Swap gets as many Swap-based ability cards as NG has Reveal-based cards. Right now Swap archetype has 3 bronzes, 1 gold and a leader. NG has... 19? I mean, wtf.
I would absolutely love that, as in current form Swap is pretty much Swap-Swarm as Vanguards are only useful with a swarm, and I would very much like to see other variants. On the other hand I don't think that current Swap archetype is reliant on Wardancer's ability preventing dry-pass. If anything, they usually want you to dry-pass as they perform better on a longer turn.

TigersEye120;n10543162 said:
Additionally, Wardancer existed in this form for a long time in Gwent. Complaining about it now because it sees some value in the current meta which might as well change before the beta even ends seems a little cheap in my opinion.
I've not been around for very long, but I don't think meta changes on it's own like weather does (no pun intended :)). It changes as a result of rule and card changes, buffs and nerfs, when a card or archetype becomes too weak or too OP. Just like Wardancer currently is.

That said Wardancer can remain unchanged if carry-over interaction with dry-pass would be removed. Both TrompeLaMort and overcold_ice offer some kind of solution for this, feel free to take a look here and here, if you're interested. (Personally I think the working theory in overcold_ice's thread is currently more mature as we have brought it a couple steps further than TrompeLaMort's, but they both have different takes on the problem, so it's worth to check out both.)
 
As always with this type of card, Wardancer is absolutely fine, the real problem is the CA and the coinflip.
And that's pretty much the carry over issue in a nutshell, wait for CDPR to fix the coinflip and those cards will be a lot less oppressive.

And I hope that they don't change the Wardancer because it's one of those cards that are completely unique and interesting.
 
GenLiu;n10543992 said:
As always with this type of card, Wardancer is absolutely fine, the real problem is the CA and the coinflip.
And that's pretty much the carry over issue in a nutshell, wait for CDPR to fix the coinflip and those cards will be a lot less oppressive.
Well it really depends on the fix. :)
I've seen many people stating that fixing coinflip CA will automatically fix CA spies and carryover, but I don't think it's inherently true. Take the two threads I've just referenced. They both start with offering a pretty solid solution to coinflip, easily the best ones I've seen so far. Yet neither of them solves either carry-overs or CA spies on its own if they're left unchanged, so they take a step further and offer additional suggestions to both of these problems.

GenLiu;n10543992 said:
And I hope that they don't change the Wardancer because it's one of those cards that are completely unique and interesting.
As long as you mean how it works with swap and not how it interacts with dry-pass, I completely agree.
 
time_drainer;n10544212 said:
Well it really depends on the fix. :)
I've seen many people stating that fixing coinflip CA will automatically fix CA spies and carryover, but I don't think it's inherently true. Take the two threads I've just referenced. They both start with offering a pretty solid solution to coinflip, easily the best ones I've seen so far. Yet neither of them solves either carry-overs or CA spies on its own if they're left unchanged, so they take a step further and offer additional suggestions to both of these problems.
Well, it's pretty much impossible to know for sure since it requires some testing.
That said, while I believe fixing the coinflip would change the carry over issue it won't fix the silver spies one, that's pretty clear to me.
CA spies need to have a slightly different effect when you have the CA (like playing the card you draw instead of...well, drawing it).

And yes, even after the coinflip being fixed Wardancer and carry over in general will still be strong but I don't see any problem with that (the point isn't to make the mechanic useless).
For me personally this is barely a problem right now and the only situation where carry over is backbreaking is when you lose the CF and fall down to -2 on CA. The rest of the time carry over is managable (at least that's how I feel).
 
GenLiu;n10544292 said:
... The rest of the time carry over is managable (at least that's how I feel).

If you play Bran and have Olgierd in you GY, sure, but what about us other plebs, that do not use this and have to deal with something that we can't actually have any sort of control over?
 
GenLiu;n10544292 said:
And yes, even after the coinflip being fixed Wardancer and carry over in general will still be strong but I don't see any problem with that (the point isn't to make the mechanic useless). For me personally this is barely a problem right now and the only situation where carry over is backbreaking is when you lose the CF and fall down to -2 on CA. The rest of the time carry over is managable (at least that's how I feel).
Forcing your opponent to play a second round when his deck is not built for that or single-handedly making him go with -1CA into final round (possibly both) seems too strong for me on any card, let alone a Bronze one.
Actually I'm playing a deck right now that is usually okay with going for a second round so I also don't feel the pain right now, but I still see the issue there.
 
partci;n10544772 said:
If you play Bran and have Olgierd in you GY, sure, but what about us other plebs, that do not use this and have to deal with something that we can't actually have any sort of control over?

You know the funny thing? Even in my Bran deck I don't play Olgeird (it's a QG deck so you know, my Bran play is Cerys, double QG).
You fight carry over just like anyone fight carry over by either playing very aggressive on round two so you get your CA back or by just accepting to play R3 with -1 CA (you know you can still win with -1 CA, this is not the disaster some people want to believe. The disaster is -2).

Carry over is only here to...well...Carry over, they provide very low value since they're splitted in multiple rounds (usually 2). Wardancer don't even have this advantage, she's merely a lock for open pass.
I'm not saying that it's not strong, of course it is but I don't see how it's a problem since cards are meant to be strong to a certain degree.

If you have your WD while being on equal (or having card disadvantage) she doesn't seem as OP so you can clearly see that the problem is the coinflip/CA not the wardancer.

partci;n10544772 said:
If you play Bran and have Olgierd in you GY, sure, but what about us other plebs, that do not use this and have to deal with something that we can't actually have any sort of control over?

time_drainer;n10544922 said:
Forcing your opponent to play a second round when his deck is not built for that or single-handedly making him go with -1CA into final round (possibly both) seems too strong for me on any card, let alone a Bronze one.
Actually I'm playing a deck right now that is usually okay with going for a second round so I also don't feel the pain right now, but I still see the issue there.

See? You admit you don't feel the pain meaning that the WD isn't "OP" by much.
I've never said that there is no problem I said that the problem isn't what you think it is.
If you think about every situation were the WD messed you up, you'll realize that 9O% of the case, it's on a game you lost the coinflip.
 
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GenLiu;n10545642 said:
See? You admit you don't feel the pain meaning that the WD isn't "OP" by much.
No, I'm only saying there are some decks that won't get messed up by it. It still gives an unfair advantage against all the rest.

GenLiu;n10545642 said:
I've never said that there is no problem I said that the problem isn't what you think it is. If you think about every situation were the WD messed you up, you'll realize that 9O% of the case, it's on a game you lost the coinflip.
Yeah, when I get the unfair advantage of winning the coin flip, it usually outweighs the unfair advantage opponent gains from WD. Once you fix coinflip and level the playing field, WD could easily be enough to mess you up.
 
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