Cerys needs a nerf

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I honestly do not think that Cerys needs a nerf.
To use Cerys you have to run Ursine Ritual as your leader ability or using her becomes very gimmicky.
Having played Lippy decks with Cerys myself I can assure you that the deck is a lot more fragile than you imagine and reusing her in Round 3 is not as trivial as it may sound.
In fact the deck is maybe tier 2-3 at best and due to its nature loses in a long round 3 (which means that losing Round 1 is somewhat of a death sentence), even if one does not brick.
In what sense it is fragile LOL?
You play Ursine Ritual, you have Cerys, Lippy and you have Royal Decree. Even if you are unlucky, you use Royal Decree to pull the card you need. And if you're lucky, you use it on something else.
I do not exaggerate. Every time I play against this deck I see this combo.
 
In what sense it is fragile LOL?
You play Ursine Ritual, you have Cerys, Lippy and you have Royal Decree. Even if you are unlucky, you use Royal Decree to pull the card you need. And if you're lucky, you use it on something else.
I do not exaggerate. Every time I play against this deck I see this combo.

In what context is it OP, which decks do you play, and how many of the decks in the current meta are inferior to Lippy.
If you play control then it's pretty obvious that Lippy will beat you every time, as it is a point-slam deck.

However pointslam decks, have their own weaknesses, and by no means are top tier in this current meta. Hence a nerf is not justified.
On the contrary Lippy deck might (I dont play it myself, thus I cant know for sure) stand in a decent position against poison. Which is good as people could be less inclined to play poision with prevalence of Lippy.

The true weakness of Lippy is 5 bricks in the deck, thus you are not consistently able to bleed the opponent in round 2.
An RNG dependent deck should not be touched if its true potential ranges around 50% overall winrate. Your winrate basically depends on draw-RNG. By not drawing, you basically loose. Thus if you make the cards weaker, you wont even be able to execute your win-rate strategy at all, which usually revolves around bleeding the opponent in round 2. Making this deck suffer at 30% win rate.

With draw-dependent decks, small adjustments have disproportional consequences.
 
If you nerf Cerys you make a tier 3 deck unplayable, why even bother. You get less diverse meta, with more Harmony and poision coming your way. Good luck with streamlined progression through ladder.
So, the solution to the broken mechanic is to keep another broken mechanic?
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
Lippy decks have a great strength in the fact they are hard to conter by the opponent, they would need multiple seizes, banishes and row punish cards, which aren't too prevalent in the meta, and doesnt really go tall or rely on order units so poison and locks do nothing.

However, to balance that great strength it has a great weakness in the draws and mulligans - while with other strong decks, all you need to worry is in getting your strongest cards, with Lippy Cerys its more important to just avoid bricks. Not exactly sure what the popular list is, but my version was a mulligan nightmare with risks of bricking 2 shieldmaidens (more in R3), roach, knickers, morkvarg, Ermion if no alchemy spells was left on deck and Crowmother, that needed to be revived before Lippy is played.

Personally, i really like these decks, as im not a fan of GS decks or going tall with svalblod priests, and want to actually put up a fight vs poison and control decks. Im ok with a small nerf, just as long as it doesnt make this playstyle unplayable... again.
 

Guest 4398794

Guest
SK has greatswords and Gedyneith as viable decks, besides Lippy. These decks perform better than Lippy, but somehow, people perceive Lippy decks to be better :shrug:

SK also has self-wound and Tall-Dracoturtle. The reason for it not being played is because of poison.
And in this poision meta you want to nerf decks, that actually can hold their ground against that nonsense. I mean, you pretty much kill SK at this point.
You sir, don't want any variety at all.
Actually gedyneth doesn't need lippy too ??????
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You sir, don't want any variety at all.
Ohhh, I definitely want variety. But by balancing all factions which needs to be balanced.
You're biased now, because you measure your deck VS POIsion.
That's not the point.
 

Guest 4368268

Guest
Cerys in round 1 is a high tempo play. It's also essentially the only high tempo round 1 play next to Vildkaarl. However as stated by many others here, it makes your mulligans / draws incredibly awkward. Yeah, you can use Matta/Decree but you generally want those to play her out later. I've played with a Lippy Cerys many times and played against it many times and from both experiences I really can't see why you deem her 'unfair' or 'too strong' unless you're running a very slow starting deck.

The Lippy decks can't pass early because they've a graveyard to fill and they're terrible at longer rounds. This can be strategically exploited easily. Even more so if you tech against it. If you nerf Cerys you're just killing off an average/okay deck. I don't know if you (OP) have tried it, but I suggest you do if you haven't already. It has little removal (generally about 3/4 cards) and other than blitzing a lot of points quickly has little merit. It's a dream to play against when you figure it out.
 
I think Cerys needs to summon those girlies from your deck, not spawn another one. In that case Cerys is still 4+3+4=11 points + good thinning. Maybe she needs to be back to 10prov. But now - she is 4+3+4+4=15 points. Too much.

Tripple Gedy aftifact is what really bothers me. Huge amount of points, pretty easy to perform with all the tutors available. I played 20 games, won 18, only 1 time out of 20 I couldn't draw combo pieces.

And ... Lippy. Very interesting card design, but now he's out of control. Just make him do 4 damage already and be done with it for good (witcher's trio, 2 horses, etc etc etc).
 
Actually gedyneth doesn't need lippy too ??????
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Ohhh, I definitely want variety. But by balancing all factions which needs to be balanced.
You're biased now, because you measure your deck VS POIsion.
That's not the point.

In any other context this deck is average at best. You are biased yourself by not seeing it's weaknesses. It is a fun deck, but I dont play it, as there are stronger decks in the meta. You should try it, and you will eventually realize it isn't that good.

The reason you might see it so much is because it doesen't play like any other decks. As others have mentioned, the real struggle is the mulligan phase. Your strategy revolves around drawing and later on replaying your best cards.
Short round 3 is this deck's win-con.
 

Guest 4398794

Guest
Why does everyone say about dominant decks that they are not that.good, try it out and you'll see etc.

If it's dominant, means is good enough to be played.by a huge amount of players.

And the other thing: the easy to counter comments on this decks.....
No there is not easy counter. You get in a game where you prepare for random enemy's and tech your decks accordingly, means you may have counter for let's say cerys, but you will loose counter for let's say NG poision or monster or even a peasant uprising.

Stop this one sided vision of decks.

A deck is OP if multiple decks beats it less then 50% out of 1000 games for example.
A deck is OP if you need to teach your own deck, be it any faction to counter that specific deck.

The proper balance is missing, even for a monetary heavy game type.
Should be more balance then it is.
 
I think Cerys needs to summon those girlies from your deck, not spawn another one. In that case Cerys is still 4+3+4=11 points + good thinning. Maybe she needs to be back to 10prov. But now - she is 4+3+4+4=15 points. Too much.
[...]
Isn't that what she used to be, when noone would even look twice at her ?
Thinning is far, far less valuable than it used to be and running bricks for it to be a mediocre tempo play for a lot of provisions is just bad.

Why does everyone say about dominant decks [...]
Since when is Lippy dominating and at which ranks ?

[...]
And the other thing: the easy to counter comments on this decks.....
No there is not easy counter. You get in a game where you prepare for random enemy's and tech your decks accordingly, means you may have counter for let's say cerys, but you will loose counter for let's say NG poision or monster or even a peasant uprising.
[...]
What people state is that you should outplay them, which means trying your hardest to win round 1 and smash them in a long round 3, because Lippy decks collapse in a long round 3.

[...]
A deck is OP if multiple decks beats it less then 50% out of 1000 games for example.
A deck is OP if you need to teach your own deck, be it any faction to counter that specific deck.

The proper balance is missing, even for a monetary heavy game type.
Should be more balance then it is.
You do realize that there is a reason people call it a a Tier 2-3 deck, right ?
Beyond that there is also the fact that Lippy decks are highrolly, of course you can argue that you tend to be unlucky against them, however they can easily brick and auto-lose if they do not have a strong enough hand to win round 1 (I am also speaking from personal experience, part of why I much prefer stronger decks right now a.k.a. decks that can actually compete in a longer Round 3).

DRK3 is right, the deck easily bricks and Lippy requires Roach and Morkvarg (another 10 and a 9 provision card), just to not lose tempo when playing it.
(So you invest 29 provisions in 3 cards for a 12 point play)
Beyond that with Ursine Ritual you do get an immediate Cerys + Champion of Svalblod, however your leader ability beyond enabling these cards to actually function is worse than the activation ability of Mahakam Forge.
 
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Guest 4398794

Guest
DRK3 is right, the deck easily bricks and Lippy requires Roach and Morkvarg (another 10 and a 9 provision card), just to not lose tempo when playing it.
(So you invest 29 provisions in 3 cards for a 12 point play)
I agree that is much. IF it would be a one play and done. But is not, you pull it out twice at minimum. So basically is 24 points , and also shakes up your deck for better draws, and later rounds just decree for cerys.

You too cry about draw inconsistency, but as I see them by watching streams and playing the game that is stupidly consistent .
So don't give me the speech. The deck works pretty damn well, otherwise would be less played then a simple Thrive deck.

As for ranks, I see it a lot in streams on pro rank and videos. And around my rank since I reached 15 and I reach 5. As I progressed from lower ranks to higher ranks I saw it more often then others (except NG, those fanboys are a lot out there)
 
I agree that is much. IF it would be a one play and done. But is not, you pull it out twice at minimum. So basically is 24 points , and also shakes up your deck for better draws, and later rounds just decree for cerys.
[...]
What do you mean with minimum, how do you pull a full Cerys 3 times ?
(In case you actually want to suggest using Second Wind I would still wonder how you intend to trigger Cerys 3 times, without Ursine Ritual and without the opponent just removing the Shieldmaiden, before you can pull them).

[...]
As for ranks, I see it a lot in streams on pro rank and videos. And around my rank since I reached 15 and I reach 5. As I progressed from lower ranks to higher ranks I saw it more often then others (except NG, those fanboys are a lot out there)
I play at rank 1 (or now 3 since I dropped and had no interest in bothering to climb up to 1 again) and I almost never see that deck.
I saw 1 person using double Gedyneith against me and that person still got smashed in Round 3.
 
I agree that is much. IF it would be a one play and done. But is not, you pull it out twice at minimum. So basically is 24 points , and also shakes up your deck for better draws, and later rounds just decree for cerys.

You too cry about draw inconsistency, but as I see them by watching streams and playing the game that is stupidly consistent .
So don't give me the speech. The deck works pretty damn well, otherwise would be less played then a simple Thrive deck.

As for ranks, I see it a lot in streams on pro rank and videos. And around my rank since I reached 15 and I reach 5. As I progressed from lower ranks to higher ranks I saw it more often then others (except NG, those fanboys are a lot out there)

So have you tried it?
 
No. And I won't.
I don't like those decks.
I like engi decks with damage order or cooldown.
Then actually commit engines to Round 1, even if you win it 2 cards down, as long as you can get something like a 9 card Round 3 you are favored, even if you are a card down.
These Lippy decks have a couple of really high instant power plays, however not enough for a longer round (e.g. both playing 7 cards).
If you win Round 1 with both having 2 or 3 cards left the hands will still be almost full in the last round if you drypass round 2.
Against these push decks you have to already prepare for a long round 1 and play accordingly.
 
Maybe they shouldn't have made her "spawn" the melee unit. Sure. But if they change that we're back to her being unplayed.

But I lolled at the size of this thread. Do you guys even play the game a lot? There's worse things out there... But I guess it depends on preference.

If you hate her so much: play Muzzle. Steal her with SY. You can steal the damaged 'maiden with Sweers. I'm sure there's other options. The deck doesn't really do much else. IF it works it's good. Often they don't pull it off.
 
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