Change Letho/Regis (or add counterplay)

[Jeydra]

Change Letho/Regis (or add counterplay)

Letho/Regis wipes the floor with some decks (Axemen, NG Handbuff, NG soldiers, Moonlight, probably several more decks I'm not thinking of). The combo is so devastating that it can be worth >80 points. This is counterbalanced by the fact that both cards need to be drawn to be effective, and there are decks that the combo is ineffective against; however if the opponent has the combo these decks simply fold. There's no point even playing! They can't play around it, because their deck is built to make big units, and there are only three rows to split up on. They can't add any hate cards, since there are none. The best they can do is get the last play - nontrivial - and then kill Regis after it's been played, but even then the combo has still probably generated 40+ points.

I think there're two options:

1) Tone down the combo a little against the decks most vulnerable to it, buff it against decks that are not so vulnerable. For example, Letho could drain two units by half, but if none of these two units are boosted, fully drain up to three units instead.
2) Add hate cards. The problem is, I genuinely do not how to make one. Letho comes in, drains two units, he's now 40+ strength - but although there're cards that can kill a 40+ strength unit, that's your own 40+ strength unit you're killing. The only real way would be to spread the points out again, and I don't see how to make such a card that is still at least decently effective against decks not using the combo (without this, it's not a good hate card and probably people would just attempt to fade the combo instead).

Personally I prefer #1.

 

[1990BW]

Change Letho to target two adjectent units instead of picking 2 on a row (like it was in the past)

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

Bekkers Dark Mirror might be a bit of a counter, but even so it is far too unreliable to include it.

I also would prefer 1.
What about draining the boosts of up to 4 units on a row and locking them. This would prevent silvers spies from being targeted and it would require a bit more setup. Also with more locks it would make Letho more versatile.

 

[iamthedave]

How does Letho wipe the floor with moonlight? He can't target werewolves, can he?

 

[DRK3]

Also, if im not mistaken, NG doesnt have any 'row-mover' unit, at least bronze or silver (Nivellen doesnt count as its too random), so you could always distribute your big units on different rows.

I never used this combo but havent had trouble against it, cant even remember the last time i lost to it (i remember the 1st time i saw it and was caught by surprise by it, i did lose)

 

[Hellsmoke77]

I agree, the point swing is much too high. It's no better than Iorveth Meditation and Ithlinne were before the nerf.

 

[Void_Singer]

I actually regret my early defense of this combo. it's minimum value is just over 2x the biggest unit your opponent has with no effective counterplay. it's average value is 4x the biggest two units on a row, and it it can easily swing for +6x or more of those two. there are near zero counterplays.

 

[Lerdeif]

I very much agree.

 

[Khreygond]

Also, if im not mistaken, NG doesnt have any 'row-mover' unit, at least bronze or silver (Nivellen doesnt count as its too random), so you could always distribute your big units on different rows.

Yup. And then they play a Cantarella. Letho to your biggest unit on the row + Cantarella and boom.

Admittedly it doesn't work too often though. Meta stats indicate a winrate of below 50%. But if it works, you are doomed.

I too dislike things for which there is no counterplay. But in that case, shouldn't Artefact Decompression be added into the game too?

 

[thirdeye50]

I too dislike things for which there is no counterplay. But in that case, shouldn't Artefact Decompression be added into the game too?

I agree completely.

 

[illicitSoul]

I have idea. We need special card which could TEMPORARY convert boosted power into STRENGTH. So Regis couldn't suck it so easily

 

[FG15-ISH7EG]

What would be other uses for such a card? Else this card won't be used.
And what happens when the temporary strengthened card moves to the graveyard or back to the hand, as effects normally don't continue there. In that case it would make NG handbuff even stronger and Ozrel would be 30 power play in consume.

 

[CallMeHoot]

Hard counter already exists in the form of Scorch.

Unless I'm missing something?

 

[Brio1]

I don't like so much decks based on combos of one/two card, so i completely agree.

 

[4RM3D]

Hard counter already exists in the form of Scorch.

Unless I'm missing something?

This is the same argument used against Ciri: Nova and it has the same flaw, namely you need to have the last say. Regardless, it's a bit more tricky in this case because the opponent steals your power and then you Scorch it. This means both you and your opponent lost power, with the big difference being the opponent used two gold cards while you've used only one (or silver, in the case of Scorch).

 

[BornBoring]

This means both you and your opponent lost power, with the big difference being the opponent used two gold cards while you've used only one (or silver, in the case of Scorch).

Yes, but if your opponent steals for example 20 power, you still lose 20 points. 20 points for 2 golds - 1 silver isn't that bad.

Anyway, I'm not happy about Regis being only playable as a Letho-combo-card......

 

[Jeydra]

If you're only losing 20 points to Letho/Regis, your deck isn't vulnerable to it. Take NG Handbuff for example, and assume the Spotters are buffed by a 19-strength Imperial Manticore. Each Spotter is then 24 power. The deck has three Spotters and three Mangonel Divisions, so it cannot not stack at least one row with two such buffed units. Letho then boosts to 49 power and Regis steals all of it, for a 96-point swing. Even if you have the last play and Scorch Regis off the board, you're still down ~49 points.

 

[BornBoring]

I took this as an example to show that even a mediocre letho+ a scorched regis isn't a bad play for your opponent.

 

[Void_Singer]

I have idea. We need special card which could TEMPORARY convert boosted power into STRENGTH. So Regis couldn't suck it so easily

really, REALLY bad idea... the abuse that could be achieved with this is ungodly

Hard counter already exists in the form of Scorch.
Unless I'm missing something?

yes, you are.
power theft (drain/charm) is worth double points because you not only gain points, but your opponent loses them. the effect of scroching only removes the point gained by your opponent, but not the points you lost. it's 50% mitigation at best, assuming you have last play, which might happen half the time so 25% mitigation.

 

[Eamalin1]

it is barely used and god forbid something with 2 gold setup get's good value....you just seem tilted and sad for wanting it nerfed when it's not even a problem yet you don't seem to have anything against 20+rez r3 by skellige.