Change the Premium Card Refund

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Change the Premium Card Refund


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4RM3D

Ex-moderator
Change the Premium Card Refund

https://twitter.com/PlayGwent/status/872756191604219904

Every nerfed legendary premium card that you own (e.g. Tibor) will be refunded 1600 scraps instead of 800 scraps and 400 powder. I think this is a very bad idea. Why? Because you can basically just buy every gold card in the game for 5 euro a piece. That's why I urge CDPR to change their decision before the patch hits, otherwise this will cause irreparable damage.

EDIT: The average value of a keg is 80 scraps (when you include the increased milling rate for commons and rares). You can buy 4 kegs for 5 euro, which is an average value of 320 scraps.

This means that buying kegs will give you 320 scraps for 5 euro,
while buying powder will give you 800 scraps for 5 euro.

Thus for players who buy stuff, this is a huge gain.

EDIT 2: Suggestion: Limit the number of refunds to 1 per card (or 3 for bronze). Refunds are given because of the possible negative impact on the gameplay. However, any card above the deck limit has no effect on this and does not have to be refunded.
 
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What if they just made the first 1 1600, and the rest normal ? :) This way you can atleast enjoy a little nice start of the collection :D
 
My main "gripe", as an f2p player, is that I was excited about the prospect of premium cards being a separate resource from scraps.

this was because this way I wouldn't be forced to only care about crafting efficiency, but actually enjoy the awesome animated cards.

with the way refunds are going to happen though, it feels like meteorite is being relegated to "delayed scraps", hoard it until a patch, upgrade before patch, profit.

while as an f2p it feels like rewards now are actually very generous, I simply "can't" say no to free scraps in favor of cosmetics.

so I'm actually splintered in half:
a part of me goes "oh yeah, free scraps!"
another goes "Damn... no premiums for me, ever :/"

in the end, I think the "healthiest" would be for premiums to disenchant in scraps and dust instead of scraps only.
 
Crazytalk, 5 euro per gold is still alot of money. It cost 1600 scraps to craft a premium, hence why you get 1600. Powder is freaking tedious to grind so it's a fair trade, since it's a new ccg i feel the generous path is the way to go.
 
4RM3D;n8845010 said:
1) First you buy 400 powder for 5 euro. 2) Then you craft Tibor and upgrade him. 3) Finally you mill Premium Tibor for 1600 scraps and repeat the process.

that sounds like an awfully inefficient thing to do... basically, you're paying 5 euros for 800 scraps.
honestly, it would be pretty easy to identify this kind of "abuse", and prevent it from happening

then again, i don't see the harm in giving back meteorite powder, since the idea would be to get a premium for a premium...
 
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4RM3D

Ex-moderator
VONFIDDE;n8845350 said:
Crazytalk, 5 euro per gold is still alot of money. It cost 1600 scraps to craft a premium, hence why you get 1600. Powder is freaking tedious to grind so it's a fair trade, since it's a new ccg i feel the generous path is the way to go.
RickMelethron;n8845470 said:
that sounds like an awfully inefficient thing to do... basically, you're paying 5 euros for 800 scraps.

I would like to point out that the average value of a keg is 80 scraps (when you include the increased milling rate for commons and rares). You can buy 4 kegs for 5 euro, which is an average value of 320 scraps.

This means that buying kegs will give you 320 scraps for 5 euro,
while buying powder will give you 800 scraps for 5 euro.

Thus for players who buy stuff, this is a huge gain.
 
I agree with you in principle, but your request ignores a fundamental truth about f2p games.

Not to sound too cynical, but CDPR is running a business. Giving powder as a refund for milling nerfed premiums post-patch would be a bad financial move, because they sell the powder for real money.

Spend X amount of real money, get Y amount of powder.

This is different than the real money keg mechanic, where you may or may not wind up with duplicate cards, and/or premiums that you are willing to mill for scraps and/or powder.

In the case of kegs, it's spend X amount of money, maybe end up with scraps and powder but maybe not.

My point is that CDPR has a financial incentive to limit the amount of powder obtainable for "free".

And while they don't strike me as a greedy company by any means, as a company they still need to generate income.

In f2p games, that means through in-game purchases of things like powder.

TL;DR Good idea from a player fairness standpoint, bad idea for financial reasons if you're CDPR.
 
With the scrap of the 60 keg package a legendary is worth €11 (new milling system). The powder exploit would give you a legendary for only €3 (€55 for 18x400 powder). Can't be intended this way.
 
4RM3D;n8845570 said:
I would like to point out that the average value of a keg is 80 scraps

only if you're milling all the cards, in which case, i don't think you would be buying kegs in the first place (unless you want a full collection ASAP)

as i added to my post, i don't see any problem with giving them the 800 scraps + 400 powder, but i don't think this conversion thing would be that abused
 
Spent 120USD (level30 and rank14) so far on the game and i don't even have a single complete deck. Never lucky with packs/kegs, but atleast this 1600scrap thing felt like a nice gesture and i hope they do not change it.
 
VONFIDDE;n8845830 said:
but atleast this 1600scrap thing felt like a nice gesture and i hope they do not change it.

The gesture is nice, but I fear the abuse. Plus, if CDPR really only wanted to give a nice gesture, then they could do so by giving everyone a free keg or 2 for being awesome.
 
They already gave the info and a lot of people (me too) probably crafted the premiums by now due to it. Now its late to change it.
 
Laveley

Not really. The idea is to convert powder to scraps. Thus if the premium refund is changed to scraps + powder then you are getting back what you have put into; not losing anything. The only exception is if you explicitly bought a lot of powder for this (ab)use and are sitting on an army of premium Tibors.
 
4RM3D;n8846010 said:
Laveley

Not really. The idea is to convert powder to scraps. Thus if the premium refund is changed to scraps + powder then you are getting back what you have put into; not losing anything. The only exception is if you explicitly bought a lot of powder for this (ab)use and are sitting on an army of premium Tibors.

That would be risky AF since we don't know if the refunds cover all copies of a card or only "usable" copies (3 bronzes, 1 silver, 1 gold)
 
4RM3D;n8846010 said:
Laveley

Not really. The idea is to convert powder to scraps. Thus if the premium refund is changed to scraps + powder then you are getting back what you have put into; not losing anything. The only exception is if you explicitly bought a lot of powder for this (ab)use and are sitting on an army of premium Tibors.

I didnt. But what if someone did it? Would you blame them? I dont think its honest for a company release an information and than change it and basically f@ anybody who made decisions based on that info.

Is that "too good"? Probably. But thats not really the point for me. Its like i announce a promotion on my restaurant and than on the day of the promotion a lot of people shows up and i decide to step back because of it... i probably would loose a bunch of customers because of it.

If you said something, than you gave its word. I criticize cdpr a lot, but i find highly improbable that they will just step back from their words.
 
Laveley;n8846090 said:
But what if someone did it? Would you blame them?
yes. if you clearly try to abuse a refund system, i'd be glad to watch it backfire

Laveley;n8846090 said:
I dont think its honest for a company release an information and than change it and basically f@ anybody who made decisions based on that info.
again, if your decision is to abuse the system, it isn't their responsibility to let it happen. (pretty sure there are clauses about this in the terms of service)

Laveley;n8846090 said:
Its like i announce a promotion on my restaurant and than on the day of the promotion a lot of people shows up and i decide to step back because of it
no, that's false advertisement.

it would be more like saying "i'll give you a hundred dollars if my food makes you sick", and then a bunch of people sniff at each other to get sick and make money from you

Laveley;n8846090 said:
If you said something, than you gave its word.
"words are wind", as the saying goes

and they never promised people would have a way to convert meteorite powder into scraps, they simply said they'd refund nerfed cards; which currency they decide to refund is up to their decision, and their decision can always be changed before the patch
 
RickMelethron;n8846190 said:
yes. if you clearly try to abuse a refund system, i'd be glad to watch it backfire

I could argue what you define as "abuse", but again, thats not really the point for me, so, if you would like to "watch it backfire" i dont really blame you, as i dont really blame people that would do it based on an official statement of the company.

RickMelethron;n8846190 said:
again, if your decision is to abuse the system, it isn't their responsibility to let it happen. (pretty sure there are clauses about this in the terms of service)

But it is their responsibility to keep their promise.

RickMelethron;n8846190 said:
no, that's false advertisement. it would be more like saying "i'll give you a hundred dollars if my food makes you sick", and then a bunch of people sniff at each other to get sick and make money from you

And how say that refund will only be made on scraps and refund people with powder isnt false advertisement? Sorry dude, you can make that hamster run on the treck all day long, if you say something and do another, thats false advertisement for me, no matter what.

RickMelethron;n8846190 said:
"words are wind", as the saying goes

"Words are wind" seriously dude? Well i bet that you will have a very successful business model following that motto!

RickMelethron;n8846190 said:
they simply said they'd refund nerfed cards

With scraps only. Which they wouldnt do if they decide to change it. Now, they can change it? Obviously yes, i never said otherwise. But knowing cdpr i highly doubt they will change their word.
 
I'd have to imagine CPR thought about this and as they said nothing about it they don't consider it abuse. They specifically made the statement that scraps would be given for premiums. If they were worried about people 'abusing' the system they would not have made that statement.

Also, 'buying' legendaries for $5 is pretty disingenuous. You have to actually have the cards to transmute the legendaries into. So it requires $5 of dust, plus the 800 scrap crafting cost of the card to begin with. Even if it was $5 a legendary this would still require people to spend $125 to get all the legendaries, something like $300+ to get everything. If you add that to the fact they have to have normal copies of the card in the first place to 'abuse' the system you're looking at something like $500+ dollars to get everything from this. Very few people are going to spend that much money. Even if you do, it's more efficient to just flat out buy a couple hundred dollars of kegs because you can pretty much unlock everything with 500ish kegs.

The only thing this does is allow players who already had the cards to get 5 or 6 legendaries max. I also assume there is going to be another reset after closed beta is finished, so people buying dust now only screw themselves over for when the game actually launches as they'll just get all that useless dust back.

EDIT: The only possible abuse I see is if they let you mill cards you craft after the patch hits for full value. This would let you use the craft off one nerfed card to keep financing you through the craft, transmutation and mill process. I seriously doubt this will be the case. In all CCGs I've played that offer full refunds for nerfed cards it does not apply to cards people craft after a patch hits. If you can mill post-nerf crafts for full value that does sound like an exploit. But, if they keep in line with other games that probably won't happen. There's also no point in allowing any full refunds on cards people craft in that 5 day window after the patch since at that point the full card changes are made public.
 
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Leave it as it is. At least meteorite powder is now useful.
MooshieMooshie;n8846700 said:
I also assume there is going to be another reset after closed beta is finished, so people buying dust now only screw themselves over for when the game actually launches as they'll just get all that useless dust back.
​​​​​​​No such intentions announced.
 
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