Change water hag!?!?

[LethoClean]

Change water hag!?!?

WH having lacerate is very powerful.. Its to strong when added with carnthahir or however you spell his name. He can easily make lacerate a 20+ card.

 

[NlelithZ44]

Well, you said it yourself. Water Hag isn't the problem, Lacerate is. It certainly works great in current meta, and many non-monster decks carry at least one Lacerate. So devs will do something about it, eventually.

 

[mishant]

Water hag has a lowly value of 2 & has a 1 turn timer this gives the opponent an opportunity to destroy it using any card (of many available in each deck ) .
& from what i see lacerate is only a BIG problem for monster deck users with swarm decks

 

[Exoclyps]

mishant, you're thinking of Grave Hag. Water Hag is the Monster mage. A very strong one that is.

 

[mishant]

mishant, you're thinking of Grave Hag. Water Hag is the Monster mage. A very strong one that is.

Oh..mybad
i got confused with the names

 

[Karajorma]

WH having lacerate is very powerful.. Its to strong when added with carnthahir or however you spell his name. He can easily make lacerate a 20+ card.

Yeah, but Caranthir is basically rubbish now. So I don't see much problem with a 1-2 move involving a silver AND a gold card doing a lot of damage sometimes.

 

[4RM3D]

Yeah, but Caranthir is basically rubbish now.

That explains why every non-Consume deck is using Caranthir at the moment. Oh, wait a minute...

 

[Karajorma]

That explains why every non-Consume deck is using Caranthir at the moment. Oh, wait a minute...

I haven't seen him once since the last patch. Now that might be a coincidence but he's nowhere near as powerful as he used to be and a lot of people (including me) stopped using him because of that. Those who are still using him are probably doing so precisely because synergy with the hag is one of the best things he can do.

 

[Staluev]

Every Dagon includes Caranthir in their decks.

lining up stuff is just too crazy with lacerate being a thing

As for Water Hag, she should get venom poison to be balanced mage imo.

 

[Karajorma]

Yes, but in the end we are talking about using a gold card so that a different card (which you won't always draw) can deal a maximum of 9 points of extra damage. Compare that with say Philippa who can easily deal those 9 points of damage herself and often does more and I don't see why people are complaining about the synergy between those two cards.

Now if you feel that water hag on her own is too powerful, that's a different matter, but dragging in the fact that she makes a gold card worth having only makes her seem more balanced, not less. If you get rid of the Water Hag's Lacerate, do you think Carathir would be worth keeping in those decks? Especially when you can achieve much of the same effect he would have on a game with the Jotun.

 

[Skryba86]

You don't really need to draw the water hag, though. Lacerate is a thing on its own, in the current meta. With it, or water hag in the deck, caranthir becomes a 20 power play. He's not garbage by any means.

Anyway, lacerate is only particularly good in the current meta. I don't think water hag is too good at all, IMO, she's just a very strong card in a meta that has lots of tokens or swarm units.

In any case, I wouldn't be too opposed to giving her venom instead of lacerate. She'd lose potential value, but gain consistency in attaining max value. Not sure if that would make her weaker overall, though. Change the meta and suddenly lacerate isn't as much of a thing, and now she kills 4 strength units instead of 3.

 

[Staluev]

Caranthir is an 11 point play +2 points per round if not countered in addation to lining up 3+ bodies. The reason why nobody plays Jotunn is because the silver cards are somewhat more competing for their slots. There are just better silvers imo.

If I recall right mages like WH are supposed to lose some value to other silvers due to their versatility. But WH has a strong synergy with other tools of the Monsters faction namely: lining up units. That would be like giving SK the Tremor spell from Vanhemar. An x-men nightmare.

 

[Karajorma]

You don't really need to draw the water hag, though. Lacerate is a thing on its own, in the current meta. With it, or water hag in the deck, caranthir becomes a 20 power play. He's not garbage by any means.

You're kinda making my point though. Caranthir is a good card cause of his synergy. I'm being somewhat unfair calling him rubbish but since the weather nerf his major value comes not from his own value but from the way he works with Lacerate (regardless of the source) or other cards like Imlerith or G:Igni. Sure he isn't a bad gold on his own, but there are other options which are better. Once you add the effects of other cards, I can see why you might want to take him. But if other cards should be nerfed because they work well with him, then what is the point in taking him?

If we start complaining about every silver that can be a 20 point swing when played with a particular gold we're going to need a very long list.

In any case, I wouldn't be too opposed to giving her venom instead of lacerate. She'd lose potential value, but gain consistency in attaining max value. Not sure if that would make her weaker overall, though. Change the meta and suddenly lacerate isn't as much of a thing, and now she kills 4 strength units instead of 3.

I don't object to the change too much in and of itself. I just don't see why Caranthir is being dragged in as a reason for it. If anything he seems to be an argument against it.

Caranthir is an 11 point play +2 points per round if not countered in addation to lining up 3+ bodies. The reason why nobody plays Jotunn is because the silver cards are somewhat more competing for their slots. There are just better silvers imo.

If I recall right mages like WH are supposed to lose some value to other silvers due to their versatility. But WH has a strong synergy with other tools of the Monsters faction namely: lining up units. That would be like giving SK the Tremor spell from Vanhemar. An x-men nightmare.

But when it comes to lining up units we're only really talking about the effects of a gold card (I tend to agree with you on Jotunn). Sure you can use the drowner or a frightener to make lacerate do an extra 3 points but that's not really much synergy. That's not the same as having a mage which can boost multiple bronze cards.

 

[LethoClean]

Carathnir is applying frost. 3 turns and hes 15+ value and can keep going. Hardly anyone is running weather removal, and if they are they are not using it on the frost. B/c EVERY monster player os running foglets and they are just going to wait for the fog. And if WH get vemons she still is the best mage in game giving her a 12 point kinda strong focus removal, then weather would just finish the enemy off. WH should get......d shackles Kappa, mardroeme should be fine for the replacement or epidemic. Epidemic kinda mixes well and how shes a creature full of viruses and diseases.

 

[Skryba86]

Why would you put epidemic on a 3 power silver unit? How reliably would she actually return any value without instead killing herself off? ^^'

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Why would you put epidemic on a 3 power silver unit? How reliably would she actually return any value without instead killing herself off? ^^'

NR Mage says hello. To address the question, Epi can be pretty good early R1 or R2. If the opponent drops equal power units early R1 you can get good value if your first few card plays are higher power. It can at the least drop a unit or two early R2 in the same way (Rado Control....). Situational maybe, overpowered.. not even close. Most Mage spells are situational though. Epi doesn't fit with a 3 power Mage for sure though.

In response to this thread, I'm not sure it's high on the problem list. WH pulling Lacerate is effectively a +3 point Lacerate. You could do the same thing by plugging Lacerate into the deck. A 3 point deficit to burn a bronze instead of a precious silver seems like a better idea to me. It's for this reason I'm often surprised to see WH so much, outside of it's ability to leave further room for MS to abuse their bronzes.

I'd be obliged to mention I think the inherent issue with Mages is balancing them. Even with venom on WH it could be a 15 pt silver play. Vanhemar can do the same with Tremors. Meanwhile poor NR has to settle for Thunder/Rain and ST Quen/Fog. TBH I'd rather Mages just go away. The thought of homogenizing the factions doesn't sit well with me, even with different spells on the Mages. It should come as no surprise I see lock units in the same light, for the same reasons. Like Mages, they seem out of place. And, like Mages, the different abilities rarely translate to the different lock units having similar value.

 

[Skryba86]

Yeah, I don't like the mages either. I dislike these cards that are too similar among different factions.

Anyway, keira can't be compared with a silver mage. Obviously epidemic is awesome in her since it can't target her. Now splash epidemic on a silver mage and it'll be of very little use and very little value, most of the time.

As for dethmold, he has less potential value than other mages, sure. But he also kills units of 7 or less value. Much better removal spell than any other mage, when it comes to dealing with a single threat. I don't think he's underpowered at all. ST's mage is the only one aí really think should get a different spell instead of quen, if the mages really are to remain as they are.

 

[4RM3D]

The thought of homogenizing the factions doesn't sit well with me.

I dislike these cards that are too similar among different factions.

Same here. I liked it more during Closed Beta when each faction had their... 'thing'. Time to dredge up an old post:

While playing Gwent, I had a déjà vu about World of Warcraft vanilla (when it was just released) and WoW now.

When WoW was originally released, it had horrible class balancing and each expansion it got a little better (simply put). However, after a while, it took a turn for the worse. Each balancing attempt destroyed more and more of the uniqueness the classes, and in the end, every class was stripped and converted to an all-purpose class.

I see the same thing happening to Gwent now. Each faction is getting more and more of the same things, like the mages, spies and locks, and with every update, some uniqueness of the faction is lost (e.g. passive abilities).

While I prefer factions to be balanced, I don't want it to come at the cost of destroying their archetype, their essence.

 

[Skryba86]

Yeah, at the risk of going a bit off topic here, I'd say that to me the main thing I don't like about OB is this exact point.

I wish we could just be done with the whole idea that each archtype needs to have a generic unit that deals 2 dmg with each trigger and a generic unit that gets buffed anywhere on deck/hand/table. Get rid of those and of the silver mages, and develop unique faction interaction tools for each archtype to really differentiate playstyles and I'll be really happy with the game.

Not that I'm not happy right now. Just that I could really be happier xD

 

[lomvicmarko]

Water hag is not an issue nor its lacerate. It is just good card overall so are other mages(except ida).

Not that I'm not happy right now. Just that I could really be happier xD

I feel same way. Its getting more generic with each patch. It is not that I'm not happy but I'm worried what awaits us

I remember how when you faced ST you had no idea where he is going to place his units and you got mentally ready for some mind fuck.
When you look at all changed that ST got it went from cool to lame. Just look how much life ST got after mercs got returned.
And before we had cool ida,bmc, neophyte fireball, ciaran...All cards mean something for faction you can't just drop them and reuse
art for something else.

Now issue like this are in all faction right now.