New Witcher could be less captain America and more Geralt like in TW1 but it is not that big deal for me.
You are right. For a perfect comparison we would need a naked Geralt which means a 3D model without armor or cloths. But we don't have that. We only have Geralt in armor so I had to take that. To make both more even I drew the red lines trying to put armor and cloths out of the comparison.
I don't think that Geralt is much more muscular than David tbh. Geralt is not a bodybuilder but a trained warrior. He has a mix of different types of muscles which comes very close to the "perfect athlete" Michelangelo had in mind in creating David by resurging the ideals of old Greek masters.
Please, have you even read what I wrote? I actually wrote that his chest/waste ratio seems to be correct. The width of his breast is not the problem.
There is more than black and white. Just because I personally think that the body proportions of Geralt are a bit weird and "unnormal" doesn't mean that CDPR's designers are bad. I personally don't think they took a whole body model for Geralt, especially not in armor. But even if (and that's absolutely possible) I still think that the proportions are at least not "normal".
Correct. I would like to have the exact same position for a comparion but i couldn't find one. But then again the angle has only little effect on the waist-head/waist-knee ratio. The angle is not that big to actually change the distances by a great margin imo.
No, not really. There are theories why Michelangelo made the head and the hands bigger than they should be. Most people think that he wanted to impress the people and work with perspective (looking from above). But both parts are big on purpose and not because the marble was limited or anything. The proportions I took for this comparisons neither use head nor hands and the rest of the body is known as quite well proportioned. And actually the height/width ratio is bigger than Geralt's which laeds (Kinley's) the limited marble argument ad absurdum...
True and false. It's true that Renaissance works were based and inspired by Greek ideals and proportions. But it's wrong that realism wasn't a top priority because realism was a top priority in the ancient Greek art and sculpture. The works were of course idealized but not taken out of proportion. Ancient Greek statues actually show "the perfect male body" with as much realism as possible. These works were based on anatomy and the real proportions of people. Same is true for the Renaissance works which were based on these Greek ideals. Idealism and realism don't preclude each other when it comes to general proportions.
Sure, why not? Now I just need time for that (or somebody else). But the point of this thread wasn't about writing a scientific article about whether Geralt's 3D model follows the perfect human proportions or not. The point was that I personally think that Geralt's proportions are kind of weird (in armor) and I tried to find a reason for that impression.
Expressive? His expression was never the point here. But I take notice that you think that he looks harmonious. I think we must agree to disagree here.
Please read above for the "limited marble argument". That's just wrong.
Which only means the deduced ratios are in all probability wrong and thus shouldn't be taken into account. Additionally, as stated, David's torso:You are right. For a perfect comparison we would need a naked Geralt which means a 3D model without armor or cloths. But we don't have that. We only have Geralt in armor so I had to take that. To make both more even I drew the red lines trying to put armor and cloths out of the comparison.
I don't think that Geralt is much more muscular than David tbh. Geralt is not a bodybuilder but a trained warrior. He has a mix of different types of muscles which comes very close to the "perfect athlete" Michelangelo had in mind in creating David by resurging the ideals of old Greek masters.
Please, have you even read what I wrote? I actually wrote that his chest/waste ratio seems to be correct. The width of his breast is not the problem.
There is more than black and white. Just because I personally think that the body proportions of Geralt are a bit weird and "unnormal" doesn't mean that CDPR's designers are bad. I personally don't think they took a whole body model for Geralt, especially not in armor. But even if (and that's absolutely possible) I still think that the proportions are at least not "normal".
Correct. I would like to have the exact same position for a comparion but i couldn't find one. But then again the angle has only little effect on the waist-head/waist-knee ratio. The angle is not that big to actually change the distances by a great margin imo.
No, not really. There are theories why Michelangelo made the head and the hands bigger than they should be. Most people think that he wanted to impress the people and work with perspective (looking from above). But both parts are big on purpose and not because the marble was limited or anything. The proportions I took for this comparisons neither use head nor hands and the rest of the body is known as quite well proportioned. And actually the height/width ratio is bigger than Geralt's which laeds (Kinley's) the limited marble argument ad absurdum...
True and false. It's true that Renaissance works were based and inspired by Greek ideals and proportions. But it's wrong that realism wasn't a top priority because realism was a top priority in the ancient Greek art and sculpture. The works were of course idealized but not taken out of proportion. Ancient Greek statues actually show "the perfect male body" with as much realism as possible. These works were based on anatomy and the real proportions of people. Same is true for the Renaissance works which were based on these Greek ideals. Idealism and realism don't preclude each other when it comes to general proportions.
Sure, why not? Now I just need time for that (or somebody else). But the point of this thread wasn't about writing a scientific article about whether Geralt's 3D model follows the perfect human proportions or not. The point was that I personally think that Geralt's proportions are kind of weird (in armor) and I tried to find a reason for that impression.
Expressive? His expression was never the point here. But I take notice that you think that he looks harmonious. I think we must agree to disagree here.
Please read above for the "limited marble argument". That's just wrong.
(source: http://www.italian-renaissance-art.com/Michelangelo-David.html )
I'm not going to address to the limited marble theory here. I am however going to stress the point that the deliberate distortion thesis makes it quite probable that his torso was indeed changed, compensating for perspective, so that it would be perceived as harmonious when observed from below. And you do realize that realism and idealism are in opposition, don't you?
Look, I think it's entirely legitimate not to fancy Geralt's looks. Trying to pass said judgement as objective is what I find uncalled for.
I've said all I had to say.
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That's actually possible. But then again David's head is much bigger than the torso which speaks against the theory that the whole body was crafted to compensate perspective. But I think the point is valid and maybe I'll do another comparison...
Depends. Greek idealism means that they gave their Gods human attributes but not attributes of the "common man" but hose of the "perfect athlete". That doesn't mean that someone like the perfect athlete couldn't exist. Actually many living athletes and male models prove that assumption wrong. A human male can indeed have the idealised muscles and body proportions of a Greek (or Rennaissance) statue...Greek idealism is some kind of "idealized reaslims".
That's why I meant this thread as a discussion. I actually wanted to hear other people's opinion and evaluations on the topic. And you can of course also find Geralt's body "ok" even if it doesn't follow perfect body proportions. Life isn't always perfect (in fact, it rarely is)...
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I think it´s the armor/clothes he is wearing that is the main issue... It´s like a Sneaking Suit le Metal Gear It feels way too... specialized, not something you can wear on a daily basis. In the attached photo is my personal favourite, because it isn´t really a suit or armor, but mostly sturdy leather clothes with a "sword traps on the arms... Like this direction
It feels way too... specialized, not something you can wear on a daily basis. In the attached photo is my personal favourite, because it isn´t really a suit or armor, but mostly sturdy leather clothes with a "sword traps on the arms... Like this direction Attachments
You're right. But at his chest Geralt only wears two layers (leather+mail). That's still one more than on his waist. But as i said before, the chest/waist ratio isn't the problem. I already said that in my initial post.Proportions are so hard to measure without seeing Geralt's model without any armor on it.
Just look at the differences from legs to torso:
But then again maybe it's just because while his armor looks quite fancy it isn't really practical/realistic. It makes no sense to wear the hardened leather only on the upper torso and not the whole torso. I mean his armor seems to be extremely "custom made", tailored on his body but it doesn't even try to offer an optimal protection (legs are uncovered, lower torse has less cover than upper torso). Maybe this "just for the good looks" armor is part of my problem with the imo kind of out of place proportions...
Wow, so we even went there... If you guys want to bash your head about, let's say petty, in order not to use harder words, things and if you don't have anything better to do or nitpick about W3 you can at least do:
Seriously, the source OP and some posts bellow him are using is from a pre-E3 trailer which isn't even up to date with the gameplay models shown in the demos.
Come on guys, this thread was made to discuss Geralts proportion, and how we feel on the subject. It was not made to nitpick anything. Yet it is perceived that way. That I do not quite get. Points were presented, towards the OP not being that valid, but I don't see the reason to argue this way.
How is that nitpicking? Can't we just discuss something without serious judging or even complaining? This is not a review, it's just a forum discussion about a topic connected with the game 8 months before release. It's some kind of feedback. So relax, it's not meant as "nitpicking".
I think Geralt has the same body (and body proportions) in the gameplay demos to be honest. I can't see a big difference between his body in the Sword of Destiny trailer and his body in the gameplay demos at least.
I respect all the effort you put in this thread and your responses so far, but for I have a problem with some false cherrypicking that is being used so far, for example:How is that nitpicking? Can't we just discuss something without serious judging or even complaining? This is not a review, it's just a forum discussion about a topic connected with the game 8 months before release. It's some kind of feedback. So relax, it's not meant as "nitpicking".
I think Geralt has the same body (and body proportions) in the gameplay demos to be honest. I can't see a big difference between his body in the Sword of Destiny trailer and his body in the gameplay demos at least.
He said: "and now W3". But it's not, it's from a trailer. I agree that the pic above looks ridiculous, but if you compare it to Kinleys swamp gameplay post, you will notice that it IS different, they filled up his waist and it's more realistic.
That's why i said nitpicking, probably wanted to use cherrypicking term
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P.S. Why do people often use the term 'unrealistic' with a broad-shoulders with smaller waist looks on a male protagonist? I know he isn't supposed to look like Arnold Swarzencznjckejnera, but if you look at the bodies of athletes, sprinters, swimmers, etc and imagine them with armors and pads i think you will get similar results, no?
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Geralt's look in TW2 largely depends on how you customize him.I think it´s the armor/clothes he is wearing that is the main issue... It´s like a Sneaking Suit le Metal Gear
He can go from really simplistic to pretty damn hefty and fancy looking.
This short torso armour seems a light plate armour recovered with black leather. A set loose-fitting enough to breath deeply when he needs.
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Trying to do a hard effort of imagination. Geralt's nude body could have this proportion, maybe no so thin....
Please, avoid silly jokes....
Please, avoid silly jokes....
I know, I just gave an example I´m more into the clothing/armor hybrid types in TW2, it just seems more natural (imho) for Geralt not to wear a byrnie (which some TW2 armours, fex. "Armour of Ban Ard") or something like that, but a hardened leather jacket with minor attachments plus tough/studded leather pants to protect him from monsters claws... He is a monster-huter first and foremost Fortunately the "Witcher Gear sneaking suit" is just one option of many, so each to his own
I´m more into the clothing/armor hybrid types in TW2, it just seems more natural (imho) for Geralt not to wear a byrnie (which some TW2 armours, fex. "Armour of Ban Ard") or something like that, but a hardened leather jacket with minor attachments plus tough/studded leather pants to protect him from monsters claws... He is a monster-huter first and foremost Fortunately the "Witcher Gear sneaking suit" is just one option of many, so each to his own