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Character creation is bad

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tonyj13b

tonyj13b

Fresh user
#1
Jan 15, 2021
NPCs in the game come in all shapes and sizes. They are all completely lifeless, but they do vary in appearance. So, why is that there is no option for body type when making our own character? I can't make a short stocky character but I can change the size of his penis? Priorities seem to very off in the character creation.
 
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Fuse_00

Fuse_00

Forum regular
#2
Jan 15, 2021
That is hardly possible in such game. It has a lot of cutscenes and things V can interact with in the world. They'll need to create a new skeleton with a new rig and new set of animations for every height, if there are a few. Just doesn't worth it.

That is actually also the reason why female V can't wear high heels. The height matters a lot.
 
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tonyj13b

tonyj13b

Fresh user
#3
Jan 15, 2021
Cutscenes take priority over customizability I suppose. Do the changes that you make to the characters face appear in cutscenes?
Post automatically merged: Jan 15, 2021

Fuse_00 said:
That is hardly possible in such game. It has a lot of cutscenes and things V can interact with in the world. They'll need to create a new skeleton with a new rig and new set of animations for every height, if there are a few. Just doesn't worth it.

That is actually also the reason why female V can't wear high heels. The height matters a lot.
Click to expand...
I would say it is worth it to make a few different character models possible. We were promised an awesome character customization. We got a choice of penis size and pubic hair.
 
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D

DhampirV

Forum regular
#4
Jan 15, 2021
One of the most unforgiving missing features, so many older games have it and the only excuse I hear is "it would be too much trouble in 2020".
 
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B

bign

Forum regular
#5
Jan 15, 2021
Problem is it's all presets and no sliders. I was really looking forward to a monster factory with this game.
 
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hulkman2456

hulkman2456

Forum regular
#6
Jan 15, 2021
Fuse_00 said:
That is hardly possible in such game. It has a lot of cutscenes and things V can interact with in the world. They'll need to create a new skeleton with a new rig and new set of animations for every height, if there are a few. Just doesn't worth it.

That is actually also the reason why female V can't wear high heels. The height matters a lot.
Click to expand...
I'd start designing a new animation rig system that has more connection points. Just like how weapons and items can be grabbed and pinned to the character model. Character butts, and hands would have a similar system. Which would allow the program to adjust a animation. As for animations. They would need bending down or standing on tippy toes. With the points, the game would run the animations. But also have the ability to redirect the hands or legs to the points. So if a tall person sits down on a chair. The feet never clip into the floor. Like when using a stock animation post. The butt snaps to the chair. Feet stay on floor.

Everyone keeps wanting to push graphics every stupid game. How about start designing new body animation rigs. So height and weight systems can actually be done. Character heads can track V anywhere they move around. They understand they can't twist 360. And will relock on to V when they appear in their eye range. These type of auto systems need to be done for body parts.
 
Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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DhampirV

Forum regular
#7
Jan 15, 2021
Fuse_00 said:
That is hardly possible in such game. It has a lot of cutscenes and things V can interact with in the world. They'll need to create a new skeleton with a new rig and new set of animations for every height, if there are a few. Just doesn't worth it.

That is actually also the reason why female V can't wear high heels. The height matters a lot.
Click to expand...
How is not worth it? How is a game with a budget of 313 million dollars, 8 years of development, promoted as the next gen of open world games with Keanu Reeves and 13 millions of pre-orders not worth it? More like someone felt a lack of passion for the project.
 
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hulkman2456

hulkman2456

Forum regular
#8
Jan 15, 2021
DhampirV said:
How is not worth it? How is a game with a budget of 313 million dollars, 8 years of development, promoted as the next gen of open world games with Keanu Reeves and 13 millions of pre-orders not worth it? More like someone felt a lack of passion for the project.
Click to expand...
Also, I'm fine with Saint Rows 3 and 4's body sculpter. The clothing hugs the deformed bodies and looks odd. But I rather be able to adjust everything. Than have "perfect" looking clothing that this game does. So perfect, dick and boob size are disabled with clothes on. In Saints Row. You have a big dick. You have a big bulge on your clothes.
 
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RestoredData

RestoredData

Fresh user
#9
Jan 15, 2021
CDPR should get ideas from the Sims 4 character creation, use the good parts of that game and implement them in the next patch.
 
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Fuse_00

Fuse_00

Forum regular
#10
Jan 15, 2021
hulkman2456 said:
I'd start designing a new animation rig system that has more connection points. Just like how weapons and items can be grabbed and pinned to the character model. Character butts, and hands would have a similar system. Which would allow the program to adjust a animation. As for animations. They would need bending down or standing on tippy toes. With the points, the game would run the animations. But also have the ability to redirect the hands or legs to the points. So if a tall person sits down on a chair. The feet never clip into the floor. Like when using a stock animation post. The butt snaps to the chair. Feet stay on floor.

Everyone keeps wanting to push graphics every stupid game. How about start designing new body animation rigs. So height and weight systems can actually be done. Character heads can track V anywhere they move around. They understand they can't twist 360. And will relock on to V when they repear in their eye range. These type of auto systems need to be done for body parts.
Click to expand...
You are talking about context/procedural animations. It is extremely hard to implement. And almost impossible in cutscenes/scripted events, even RDR2 and TLOU2 which use the best procedural animations ever made have a lot of limitations and cutscenes are scripted and use mocap/keys for animation as well as any other games.

Of course everything you are talking about is cool, if we are speaking about the perfect game in nutshell. But Cyberpunk could not even manage the simple standard skeleton rig, look at V's fucked up shadow, twisted body proportions when he`s using a gun, and consider the fact he is absent on every reflecting surface when ray tracing is on... And you are talking about pocedural animation for chair sitting... which CDPR Red Engine just can not handle even in theory.

So, let's be realistic...
 
Nea.Schaefer

Nea.Schaefer

Fresh user
#11
Jan 15, 2021
eve online also has a very nice character editor and that exists for many years already.

or take black desert online as example for different shaped characters and they also exist in third person mode.

we need more variety in body shapes and faces, specially when multiplayer arrives one might want that not every male V look the same then but having a individual look.

also a character editor should allow us to save our own presets like savegames.

and i hope in connection with a better character editor we getting third person mode. i cant understand why we did not get that from the start, witcher 3 got that also, CDPR has the experience with this but alot character related technics look unfinished like the shadows and movement animations...

come on CDPR! make peace with yer developers and kick the gaming scene for us!
 
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RestoredData

RestoredData

Fresh user
#12
Jan 15, 2021
Nea.Schaefer said:
eve online also has a very nice character editor and that exists for many years already.

or take black desert online as example for different shaped characters and they also exist in third person mode.

we need more variety in body shapes and faces, specially when multiplayer arrives one might want that not every male V look the same then but having a individual look.

also a character editor should allow us to save our own presets like savegames.

and i hope in connection with a better character editor we getting third person mode. i cant understand why we did not get that from the start, witcher 3 got that also, CDPR has the experience with this but alot character related technics look unfinished like the shadows and movement animations...

come on CDPR! make peace with yer developers and kick the gaming scene for us!
Click to expand...
Agreed. What boggles my mind is why can't we have different saves for different characters playing as a Nomad, Street Kid or Corpo. Each one of them would be completely separate campaign modes unique to their starting points.
 
hulkman2456

hulkman2456

Forum regular
#13
Jan 15, 2021
Fuse_00 said:
Of course everything you are talking about is cool, if we are speaking about the perfect game in nutshell. But Cyberpunk could not even manage the simple standard skeleton rig, look at V's fucked up shadow, twisted body proportions when he`s using a gun, and consider the fact he is absent on every reflecting surface when ray tracing is on... And you are talking about pocedural animation for chair sitting... which CDPR Red Engine just can not handle even in theory.
Click to expand...
That's them not wanting to do 3rd person mode. That's not the engine being crap.
 
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tonyj13b

tonyj13b

Fresh user
#14
Jan 15, 2021
Fuse_00 said:
You are talking about context/procedural animations. It is extremely hard to implement. And almost impossible in cutscenes/scripted events, even RDR2 and TLOU2 which use the best procedural animations ever made have a lot of limitations and cutscenes are scripted and use mocap/keys for animation as well as any other games.

Of course everything you are talking about is cool, if we are speaking about the perfect game in nutshell. But Cyberpunk could not even manage the simple standard skeleton rig, look at V's fucked up shadow, twisted body proportions when he`s using a gun, and consider the fact he is absent on every reflecting surface when ray tracing is on... And you are talking about pocedural animation for chair sitting... which CDPR Red Engine just can not handle even in theory.

So, let's be realistic...
Click to expand...
I get that it is a very difficult task for the developers so maybe they shouldn't have promised a good character creation system and been honest about the limitations. Also, cutscenes are taking priority over fun. This is supposed to be an action adventure RPG but it is mostly just inconsequential dialogue options with some bad gun play sprinkled in between. The fact that there are no reflections for V is just sad.
 
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hulkman2456

hulkman2456

Forum regular
#15
Jan 15, 2021
tonyj13b said:
I get that it is a very difficult task for the developers so maybe they shouldn't have promised a good character creation system and been honest about the limitations.
Click to expand...
That's all I wanted in the promotion material. If it's basic, say it's basic. I wouldn't have bought the game on launch. Because that was one of the key reasons why I preordered. And waited when I felt like getting it. But they said it was this extensive thing. Start it up. Has less functions compared to Saints Row 4. I go...you're not extensive when you can't beat a 6 year old game.
 
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dreambled

dreambled

Senior user
#16
Jan 15, 2021
Where did CDPR say they have an amazing character creator that allows you to customize your body size?

I remember seeing all the trailers and thinking to myself, the CC seems to be a preset selector rather than sliders/sculpting and adjusted my expectations accordingly. I even warned my friends about it way before the game launched since they were talking about spending hours in it.
 
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Sillivanukas

Sillivanukas

Forum regular
#17
Jan 15, 2021
dreambled said:
Where did CDPR say they have an amazing character creator that allows you to customize your body size?

I remember seeing all the trailers and thinking to myself, the CC seems to be a preset selector rather than sliders/sculpting and adjusted my expectations accordingly. I even warned my friends about it way before the game launched since they were talking about spending hours in it.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm wondering too. Although, to be fair, I didn't pay extensive attention to promotional material.
I guess I understand that when they said you can modify your characters genitals, it creates this image that you can modify pretty much anything, if you can even edit something so frivolous. I don't know.
 
dreambled

dreambled

Senior user
#18
Jan 15, 2021
Sillivanukas said:
That's what I'm wondering too. Although, to be fair, I didn't pay extensive attention to promotional material.
I guess I understand that when they said you can modify your characters genitals, it creates this image that you can modify pretty much anything, if you can even edit something so frivolous. I don't know.
Click to expand...
And that, to me, is letting your expectations and assumptions run wild. Instead of thinking, "Oh, cool, you can customize your genitals, I wonder if you can customize anything else about your body," people apparently went, "Oh, cool, you can customize your genitals, that means we should totally be able to customize body size and other stuff too!"
 
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Sillivanukas

Sillivanukas

Forum regular
#19
Jan 15, 2021
dreambled said:
And that, to me, is letting your expectations and assumptions run wild. Instead of thinking, "Oh, cool, you can customize your genitals, I wonder if you can customize anything else about your body," people apparently went, "Oh, cool, you can customize your genitals, that means we should totally be able to customize body size and other stuff too!"
Click to expand...
Totally. I don't disagree at all.

But again, that's just my speculation. I don't really know if they said something besides that.

EDIT: if we're complaining about character creator, what annoyed me the most that there is ridiculously limited colour palettes. Especially the hair colours seemed oddly restrictive.
 
Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
hulkman2456

hulkman2456

Forum regular
#20
Jan 15, 2021
dreambled said:
Where did CDPR say they have an amazing character creator that allows you to customize your body size?

I remember seeing all the trailers and thinking to myself, the CC seems to be a preset selector rather than sliders/sculpting and adjusted my expectations accordingly. I even warned my friends about it way before the game launched since they were talking about spending hours in it.
Click to expand...
They said extensive character creator many, many times. They kept saying there was more to show when you start the game. So they acted like there were things hidden. You can't say extensive willy nilly. When games in the past have better stuff. You have to directly state your character creator is basic. Because the world doesn't automatically think: An advance modern game will have less features than gamess done 6 years ago.

Do you expect to watch a TV show, made to today. To be shot in Standard Definition? No. You have a set standard of 1080p. Same goes here. They kept touting the game will be detailed like RDR2. They set a goal they now have to match. V doesn't even have the ability to grow hair. Nothing is robust like anything RDR2 did. This game costs as much as a GTA production. CP doesn't live in a bubble. They aren't R*. But that doesn't mean they can't take the various systems from their games and make them, improve them. Money was not a factor with this game. So why would people expect to have features that are minimal, or worse than games made 15 years ago.

It's not like R* has secret recipes on car handling, customizing guns on a table, or Interactive AI. They just took the time to make the world feel real. While it seems this team didn't know what to cut or keep, till the last minute. And where unable to complete their vision.
 
Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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