Well, i might be wrong, but as far as i remember V3 said to be considered partially canon.. Some of the events might or might not have happened.. Like a take it or leave it situation..
Well, Mike said that 2077 would have the events of Firestrom in the timeline, but not the rest of the V.3 events. Firestorm was still part of 2020, so as far as I am concerned I don't feel it has anything to contribute.
I am just waiting for CDPR to state that there will be no wasteland in 2077 and all transport will be via 'public' means of fast travel...
That would really fuck Wisdom off.
I think that what i'm remembering.. Well, at least V3 is not a total waste.. It has a canon part, however small..
I think they could do worst.. Like saying that they consider alternate reality as the true reality and CP77 is going to have vampires and werewolves and ghosts and stuff... That would really fry his circuits..
I can't hammer on Wisdom right now - he's in waaaay too much pain already. Give me a few weeks.
V3 is NOT in CP2077, Mike has made that quite clear. 2077 is post-Firestorm, post-nuke and post-data crash, but not V3. Firestorm is not a V3-specific event - it's part of CP2020 timeline already.
Character death in Cyberpunk was always a one-time thing - I really hope we at least have an option for that. Witcher did.
V3 is NOT in CP2077, Mike has made that quite clear. 2077 is post-Firestorm, post-nuke and post-data crash, but not V3. Firestorm is not a V3-specific event - it's part of CP2020 timeline already.
Character death in Cyberpunk was always a one-time thing - I really hope we at least have an option for that. Witcher did.
But we do know certain things. For example 1 + 1 is always 2. Why? Because it is incorporated in logic itself. If you have one thing, then well you have one thing. If you have an another thing, then you have the first thing and the second thing and together they are two things.
You could speculate that in a different kind of world things add up differently, for example two components react with each other so that they start producing an endless stream of third kind of things. But that is why I mentioned that we don't know about spiritual world, if that exists or not. But basic logic rules certain determinants, which tell us something that is always true in normal situations. And that means, that copy is always a copy, nothing else.
Lets think about a teleporter. Teleporting something is basically getting the information of the structure of an object, and creating the object somewhere else. Ok. You basically create a copy. But what do you do with the original object? Destroy it?
If there was a teleporter, I wouldn't step on it, if it worked so that a copy is created somewhere else and then the original body is dropped into a furnace and burned.
Wrong:
1 ball of clay + 1 ball of clay = 1 ball of clay
One carbon molecule plus one Oxygen molecule equals one Carbon Monoxide molecule.
The problem with your argument is that there is too much that is unknown compared to what little we do know on the matter.
1 kg of clay + 1 kg of clay is still 2 kgs of clay. Or are you suggesting that 1 brain + 1 brain = ressurrection? But who is the other brain before the merge? And where does he go?
How can you make a brain creep over internet connection? How does the brain crawl through wires? There is no way, because the wire doesn't carry the brain itself, only information. So even if you get the exact copy of the brain, you get only information. The original is still the original - until it dies and then it is just dead. But before the death of the original, it continues it's life normally. But if you transfer the information and recreate a new brain based on the first brain, and the first brain doesn't die, then why the first brain would suddenly not be you anymore the instant the second brain starts to live?
This is an interesting question. My layman's knoweldge of quantum physics reminds me that from that perspective, we are no more than a wave-form of information ourselves. That includes our physical beings and our knowledge-set. Our position in time, too, iirc.
This question of individuality amidst cloning is a good one. I mentioned to Chris awhile back about a game called Eclipse Phase, where they really explore what happens when we can upload our "selves", make copies, absorb the copies, separate lives etc. Check it out sometime.
Another series that addressed it was Christopher Henz "paratwa", where he posited that if you create a living mind and then copy it, you can get a twinning effect, where the two minds can act eitehr separately or under the right conditions, as one. Fun stuff!
Of course, if you killed one of the minds, you screwed the whole being up. It would be interesting, perhaps, in CP2077, to see a version of yourself running around at one point in the game and realise you'd died and been cloned or had your mind uploaded to a customized body, from a prisoner or coma patient or something.
Probably a bit too sci-fi for cyberpunk, though.
This question of individuality amidst cloning is a good one. I mentioned to Chris awhile back about a game called Eclipse Phase, where they really explore what happens when we can upload our "selves", make copies, absorb the copies, separate lives etc. Check it out sometime.
Another series that addressed it was Christopher Henz "paratwa", where he posited that if you create a living mind and then copy it, you can get a twinning effect, where the two minds can act eitehr separately or under the right conditions, as one. Fun stuff!
Of course, if you killed one of the minds, you screwed the whole being up. It would be interesting, perhaps, in CP2077, to see a version of yourself running around at one point in the game and realise you'd died and been cloned or had your mind uploaded to a customized body, from a prisoner or coma patient or something.
Probably a bit too sci-fi for cyberpunk, though.
I don't see how your idea of logic applies. You can't apply logic to something that we don't know anything about like consciousness. In the same way we couldn't apply logic to molecules we couldn't see, or couldn't yet theoretically see. You're saying that the brain is consciousness, and obviously from that perspective, it is impossible to transfer the self to another brain/medium. Since you're so fond of using logic, brain = brain, brain ≠ consciousness? Of course, the conclusion from your theory may be true even so.
Firstly, you defined a specific weight there, but I didn't. You also didn't specify one in your origional statement. If you take two lumps of clay and put them together, you end up with one bigger lump.
You also completely ignored my molecular analogy.
As has been pointed out, assuming that the brain IS conciousness is foolish. We simply do not know enough about the matter to reach any conclusions on the matter. It is one of the oldest questions there is. The Ancient Egytians believed that ones 'being' was held within the heart. The majority of organised religeons believe that the soul is the very essence of our 'being' and that it exists outside of our bodies and that said bodies only anchor is to this terrestrial plane of existance. The fact is that no Scientist, (or anyone else for that matter,) really knows enough to confirm, nor deny, any theory about what makes each person unique and what exactly 'is' our conciousness...
Assuming that we think with our brains and therefore our brains must be our conciousness is very narrow minded and totally illogical. Logic dictates that you cannot come to a conclusion when there are too many unknown variables.
Would that be necessary in that situation? Also, you would need a means of 'notifying' the cloning centre to begin the reactivation process upon your death. That would be getting pretty close the EVE Onlines cloning based respawn mechanic.
I still say that death should mean death. Trauma Team can come along and pick you up from locations, meaning that you could always accept to get treatment and then carry on, or you could load from a previous save. This would work really well with "Save" locations, (medical centres/clinics could be a option, as could bars and clubs,) and it would work especially well with Co-Op, (as you would be unable to rejoin a group because you would need to get healed up.
Please no save locations, those just drag games needlesly making you have to do the travel again. Let me save where and when I want (fine with not saving during combat).
Of course I'd be ok with save locations if we would get custom difficulty and save points would be one of the options.
Sure there might be a spirit world which might be a crucial and might be even the only requirement to have a consciousness (except that you need also a body to live in). But I have already admitted that! What more do you want?
But the fact is this: Until you find a supposedly existing spirit in the supposedly existing spirit world, you can't raise people from dead by copying them. Why? Because you don't yet know how to copy a spirit. And you might never know. Even technology won't solve every problem there is.
Lets face it. It takes 38 years to 2050, and human kind starts to be in trouble because of diminishing natural resources. By 2050 there will be huge crises all over the planet. There won't be enough money for a research project that investors don't see fast returns of investment in. Few individuals could meditate or something small scale, but that is it.
Scientists are trying to make fusion energy to work as a commercial energy form. They say that it still takes about 90 years to achieve that. Well, we _might_ have commercial fusion energy by 2100. Or then not. And they are working with existing matter like atoms, magnetic fields, and such, and still struggling.
We can't even travel to other stars, not to talk about other galaxies, yet. And what do you talk about? Spirit worlds? How is it any easier to get access to a spirit world that we don't even know about yet, if we can't even travel in the world we know about?! We are just barely starting to send couple of people to a neighboring planet. There are even no cities under the oceans yet!
Human technology mostly pollutes and gets into trouble. Oil spills, nuclear submarines sink, cruise ships sink, houses collapse due to landslides, plane accidents, etc... No flying cars, no personal robots, ... And need to fight antibiotic resistant superbacteria.
That lists something we do know about!
But the fact is this: Until you find a supposedly existing spirit in the supposedly existing spirit world, you can't raise people from dead by copying them. Why? Because you don't yet know how to copy a spirit. And you might never know. Even technology won't solve every problem there is.
Lets face it. It takes 38 years to 2050, and human kind starts to be in trouble because of diminishing natural resources. By 2050 there will be huge crises all over the planet. There won't be enough money for a research project that investors don't see fast returns of investment in. Few individuals could meditate or something small scale, but that is it.
Scientists are trying to make fusion energy to work as a commercial energy form. They say that it still takes about 90 years to achieve that. Well, we _might_ have commercial fusion energy by 2100. Or then not. And they are working with existing matter like atoms, magnetic fields, and such, and still struggling.
We can't even travel to other stars, not to talk about other galaxies, yet. And what do you talk about? Spirit worlds? How is it any easier to get access to a spirit world that we don't even know about yet, if we can't even travel in the world we know about?! We are just barely starting to send couple of people to a neighboring planet. There are even no cities under the oceans yet!
Human technology mostly pollutes and gets into trouble. Oil spills, nuclear submarines sink, cruise ships sink, houses collapse due to landslides, plane accidents, etc... No flying cars, no personal robots, ... And need to fight antibiotic resistant superbacteria.
That lists something we do know about!
hehe....Next gen computers! Log in and try to dodge the Black Ice! Sadly we are not in the same place IRL as they are in the game.
As far as copying ourselves and transferring to other bodies or clones IRL who knows. It can be debated all day because we just do not know. We may never know. But in the Cyberpunk 2020 game it was possible to move the mind into a computer then back into the body. I believe there were some supplements that had cloning. Vaguely remember some equipment called "A clone of your own." Just do not feel like digging through the books.
In the house rules we play by cloning is possible. Just expensive. For 100,000 euro you get a base clone. Your char with the skills and memories of when you pay for it, no ware. Ware costs extra. Updating the memories and skills costs 10,000 euro per time. A broadcasting biomonitor can alert the cloning center when you die. It takes 2 weeks or so for them to grow the new body and implant your memories. We had a discussion going about weather it was really you, or just someone who thought they were you. One guy said it wasn't you because your soul didn't transfer. I figured that was true, but you get a shiny new soul with the clone.
In Cyberpunk 2020 with a trauma team card it is hard to really kill a character, unless it is a head shot. Trauma team can usually get to the char and stabilize them before brain damage sets in, or the team medic can stabilize. Now, it might take the character a month or so to heal but that is the penalty for getting hurt.