Character death: the final frontier?

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Its simple. there is a ghost (soul, conscience, whatever) and there is a machine (body, or possibly robot/android as has been explored in various cyberpunk inspired scifi). Deus ex machina means ghost in the machine, similarly there is ghost in the shell which explores the conscience/humanity route heavily.

Speaking of which in ghost in the shell the puppetmaster was an ai conscience that actively looked for a body, no signal given when your dead or reliance on doctors or employees to make the switch. In an advanced future like cyberpunk i don't think it is that far fetched to assume the technology exists to essentially translate someone's ghost into an ai program that could remain sentient. It's no soul, but such an adequate copy that that wouldn't matter. If it were me backed up somewhere i think I'd keep a paranoid eye on hospital and morgue records, then hack or manipulate my way back into my body or shell once I found it, the body would be empty since I died, so it wouldn't be 1+1=2 it would be more like 1+0=1. And even if my original conscience was still in there the copy being added would be so perfectly similar that they would just overlap and become one. Technically yes it would be redundant in this case or "2" but you wouldn't notice since they're synergized perfectly as one. Like listening to a mono recording on two speakers.

As far as cloning goes the movie Island (based on the book by the same author that wrote a brave new world) has human clones that are essentially organ farms for rich dying people so they can live and be young forever. A very interesting movie especially when you see the steady real life advances of cloning. Purchasing a clone for backup would be a good idea, especially is it is constantly linked to you and updating in a RAID sort of way, in this way I could see a "death activation signal" being useful, programmed preemptively so that the death impulses are polarized, awakening the clone instead of killing it too. You might lose inventory and implants though this way. And if you didn't have a clone your screwed, or maybe there could be a save reload system running parallel so you could choose not to waste your clone.

Logically I believe a "save when ever you want" system holds water if you look at it from a multiverse theory perspective. Say I've finished the pathetically short campaign on call of duty. I probably died like fifty times but I always reloaded a save, before I died. That "universe" we're I made the mistakes leading to my dead is erased (I guess technically it still exists but for simplicity's sake) as I make different decisions. If you string all the moments from before each save together you have a perfect playthrough with zero deaths, making me look like a really lucky soldier with god like skill. If I were it choose a way to implement death it would be this classic reload save style. I think it fits best for most video game.

I don't play a lot of co-op but I believe usually you just magically respawn near your friend, however this lacks logic if you insist on it in a video game. Respawning at the nearest clinic as Chris mention would work well but I'd only like to see it if they add co-op, which would make it seem out of place. Personally I think co-op should be handled through braindancing or netrunning or something, transporting you to your friends world to play and back just before you die to avoid real death. In this case multiplayer death is just a exit from there game however temporarily is suiting. You wouldn't be able to keep items but this would make the level problems inherent in co-op easier to handle. You could pop in at the same level as your friend, or enemy if its pvp. Alternately if leveling is already figured out your items could just be teleported to you, but only if it can't be exploited to gain higher level gear to early. Most next gen games I've seen use a pop in and out system, though the more technical mechanics are a mystery for now. I bet cdpr is privy to this a will include something similar.
 
One more thing. You should try your backup device before the actual need to use it emerges.

I mean, if you die and your ressurrection technique doesn't work, that's bad.

But how can you be sure, that it works in the first place?

If someone wakes up in a new body and has the memories of the old brain, then of course he tells that yep he is the guy. But what if he isn't?
 
One more thing. You should try your backup device before the actual need to use it emerges.

I mean, if you die and your ressurrection technique doesn't work, that's bad.

But how can you be sure, that it works in the first place?

If someone wakes up in a new body and has the memories of the old brain, then of course he tells that yep he is the guy. But what if he isn't?

Well it could be a proven technology that has been around for a while and tested many times this would make it common and accessible in the early game. But then you have the problem of that corporate prick you just assassinated being able to do the same thing. Not cool.

If it was an experimental technology that only you had you wouldn't know it worked. And even if you did it would either be really expensive or a quest reward, both being unavailable at the begin hours (at least) of the game.

Clones are really only viable with a parallel save feature which would make them unnecessary without some additional benefit besides resurrection. Same goes for hospital revives IMO. Though benefits can easily be implemented.
 
I don't play a lot of co-op but I believe usually you just magically respawn near your friend, however this lacks logic if you insist on it in a video game. Respawning at the nearest clinic as Chris mention would work well but I'd only like to see it if they add co-op, which would make it seem out of place. Personally I think co-op should be handled through braindancing or netrunning or something, transporting you to your friends world to play and back just before you die to avoid real death. In this case multiplayer death is just a exit from there game however temporarily is suiting. You wouldn't be able to keep items but this would make the level problems inherent in co-op easier to handle. You could pop in at the same level as your friend, or enemy if its pvp. Alternately if leveling is already figured out your items could just be teleported to you, but only if it can't be exploited to gain higher level gear to early. Most next gen games I've seen use a pop in and out system, though the more technical mechanics are a mystery for now. I bet cdpr is privy to this a will include something similar.

To be honest, I think that the subject of character death only really poses a significant question for 2077 when the potential, (and hoped for,) co-op play comes into consideration. I think I have poited out perfectly well my opinion of that in my previous comments, but I cannot stress enough that once your character cannot continue in a fight in co-op mode, they should not be able to rejoin the fight. (But by all means the group should be able to 'call up' some back up in the form of NPC team members to replace whoever 'died'.

I am not keen on the idea of a 'Braindancing' multiplayer mode. Feels like a cop-out. Also, if I am putting in the effort to play with some guys, I want a payoff at the end of it. Also, Netrunning should just be Netrunning, though I have mentioned before that it would be cool to have players who are 'dedicated' netrunners.
 
Odious rift? How insulting x_x

Lol, is that an SAO reference? Either way, sure, do it!



My phone has auto-correct...
 
I cannot stress enough that once your character cannot continue in a fight in co-op mode, they should not be able to rejoin the fight.
Hm.

My recollection of the PnP rules are fuzzy. Sard? Wisdom? If you drop from failing either a Stun or a Death save, is there any way for your character to stabilize and get revived, like, right then? I'm thinking there's got to be some kind of combat cocktail that's one part quick-clot, one part painkiller, and one part amphetamine...
 
As I remember from the CP2020 book, each time you take damage you make a stun save. If you fail a stun save you pass out. Next round you get to make another stun save to see if you wake up. When you take enough damage to be mortally wounded you make a stun save, and a death save. If you fail the stun save you pass out. If you fail the death save you die. Now your buddies or trauma team have about 4 min to stabilize you before brain damage sets in. There are no instant heals. The only way to heal is over time. Base you get .5 points back a night with no medical attention. You get 1 point back a night with medical attention. Cyberware and bioware can increase your heal rate. Some drugs can increase your healing rate.

Here is the kicker. The more wounds you have the more penalties you take. The wound chart goes: Light, Serious, Critical, Mortal 1, Mortal 2, Mortal 3... When you are seriously wounded you take a -2 penalty to certain stats. When you are critically wounded some of your stats are reduced by half. When you are mortally wounded some of your stats are reduced by 2/3. There is some cyberware that can affect the penalties. Probably some drugs as well. I seem to remember one drug that made it easier to make the death save.
 
Pretty close. You take damage, you don't necessarily pass out, you're stunned. Some Refs have this as KOed, others as incapable of action, but can still perceive things. You don't make a specific stun save when you take enough damage to be mortally wounded, just the same stun you'd make for any wound at that level.

Once you are at Mortal 0 or greater, you can die. Each TURN, you must make a Death Save, until you fail or are stabilized by a medic or cyber.

If you fail a death save, you die and must be revived. The medic makes a roll depending on your Death State. That state worsens by one every 30 seconds - 10 rounds. Brain damage is GMO and can happen, well, anytime she or he finds it amusing.

At DEAD 10, you are irrevocable dead.

There are multiple cyber and drug options that make death checks easier.
 
Death saves etc don't make much sense, if the character cannot actually die. The player can always save and reload.
 
Death saves etc don't make much sense, if the character cannot actually die. The player can always save and reload.

They were talking about the PnP mechanics. Obviously these would be redundant for the sake of mortality in a purely single player game. However, they do make sense from a multiplayer perspective if there is no resurrection mechanic. It would mean that players could 'begin' a 'death count' and would need to be stabilized by team mates or they would have to be medivac'ed out and lose their spot in the run.
 
Death saves would still make sense if you can't save during a mission.. (Like in some games) This would make it not only relevant, but crucial to success.. Not being able to save during missions could be added to a difficulty mode..
 
Death saves would still make sense if you can't save during a mission.. (Like in some games) This would make it not only relevant, but crucial to success.. Not being able to save during missions could be added to a difficulty mode..
I agree, medium seems good for that, because we know we want eating, sleeping and stuff for hardcore!
 
Death saves etc don't make much sense, if the character cannot actually die. The player can always save and reload.

Insane Mode in TW2 prevented reloads, and CDPR did a pretty job of stopping you. The only way of bypassing it was if you managed to hit the "load" key in the final moments before actually dying.
 
Even if you could save middle of missions death saves would still be relevant. No one in their right mind just wouldn't save when you are in bad shape and your character is making death saves every minute.
 
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