Ciri got OP'ed too quickly

[Scryar]

I know Geralt aint THAT strong. Truth be told, most of his love interests are much stronger than him (or would be, if they were battle mages).

I mean, he was wounded (fairly seriously) by 3 mercs in Blood of Elves. And his first battle with a real experienced battle mage... went badly.

Ciri I expected to be comparable mostly. Just less experienced and overall not QUITE as strong or fast.
Still she totally wrecks most other combatants

He also kills a whole Scoia'tael unit during the Thanedd coup (8+ elven warriors if I remember correctly)
And I wouldn't call Vilgefortz just some "battle-mage". He was the most powerful person in the Witcher world. Neither the books nor the games had anybody else even close as powerful as him.
I think it heavily depends on the circumstances if Geralt would win against a mage. . In theory every mage should be more powerful than Geralt but I would guess that 99% of the mages don't have any combat experience, so Geralt would easily win against them as someone who fought his whole life. The other 1% would be powerful mages like Yennefer and Triss with some combat experience. Who would win? Difficult to say. Like mentioned, it depends on the circumstances. (fighting in a close area would be a huge advantage for a Witcher)

 

[CTPhipps]

Unlike Dungeons and Dragons, I think 90% of mages DON'T KNOW COMBAT SPELLS.

And the majority of them murdered each other during the Thanedd Coup.

The Pellar, for example, is a reasonably powerful mage. I'd say, mid-range, despite being a "Hedge Mage."

However, he's also a guy who knows only about summoning ghosts and stuff.

Colette the Dream Mage doesn't know ANY combat magic. She just knows how to visit Dreams.

It's why Vilgefortz was a Battle Mage, he's Darth Vader and about the only mage who does.

 

[TouPoutsou]

1. Ciri loses her Source abilities in "The Time of Contempt" and is an ordinary human woman in terms of the power.

2. Ciri can use Amulets, Potions, and so on to mystically enhance herself if Avallach or Yennefer wanted to give her them. Vilgefortz is stronger, faster, and more powerful than Geralt by several degrees.

3. The books describe Ciri as moving ridiculously fast and strong to everyone who watches her. Comparably to Geralt.

4. She's had seven years to practice her time/space powers.

1) Yes, she denounces at some point her source abilities. I think it is possible to get them back. What's the point of Yennefer bring her to the lodge to "teach" her if not? However i admit i am not sure about this.

2) No he is not. He casts a spell(or his staff is magical) to have unreal speed and power, but it's easily exploitable, since he cannot really control that, and Geralt beats him. Nevertheless this spell(or magical staff) is not common. We have not seen any other mage using it.

3) No. Never. Never comparable to Geralt. I am 100% positive on this. Bonhart is quite fast for Cir. However comparable to Geralt, Yennefer herself is not impressed in the least. Only small dogs as she puts it(or something similar).

4) Sure. Not the point.

Geralt is not a normal witcher. It is stated that he was abnormally resistant to potions, so they experiemented even further to him. He is the most powerfull witcher of Kaer Morhen, which is the most advanced witcher school. How do we know this? When Bonhart exposes Ciri, he says "Witcheress of KAER MORHEN". Not just Witcheres. He identifies her advanced fighting and aknowledges that she is not JUST a witcheress, but a wticheress of Kaer Morhen.
Also saying that Geralt's love interests are stronger than Geralt is rediculous. Vilgefortz defeated Yennefer twice in split seconds and he died by Geralt's sword. Also Phillipa is afraid of Geralt as she wants to avoid his possible revenge.
Saying that Geralt was not as strong on blood of elves is absurd. He destroyed the 4 deadliest assasin's in the city AND a mage, all at the same time. He was injured but you have to take into acount Phillipa's involvement. Also on the mage gatherng he slaughter a mage and like 10?maybe more scoiatel in seconds.

 

[Charcharo]

@Willowhugger
@Scryar

Well we know that Triss did fight in the battle of Soden. And that she is above average in power AND has talent and SOME combat experience. But she is not a battle mage.

Fringilla... we dont really know much, but she too would be at least like Triss. But again, her specialty is almost certainly not battle magic.

Yennefer is supposed to be a very powerful mage and has quite a bit MORE battle experience. Thing is, despite that, she STILL is not a battle mage. That is not her specialty nor her strength.

The way I see it (and understood it through the books) very few mages are REALLY powerful and fewer still even HAVE combat experience. Is Vilgefortz MORE powerful than Yenn or some other high end mage? I dont know, but I doubt it. HOWEVER in a FIGHT, he IS going to win, as that is his specialty, what he does, what he has trained to do.

Power (magical) is not just combat stuff. Even if that is what matters (to the stories) the most.

 

[CTPhipps]

The way I see it (and understood it through the books) very few mages are REALLY powerful and fewer still even HAVE combat experience. Is Vilgefortz MORE powerful than Yenn or some other high end mage? I dont know, but I doubt it. HOWEVER in a FIGHT, he IS going to win, as that is his specialty, what he does, what he has trained to do.

Eh, Vig was stated to be the most powerful mage EVER so he had that going for him. All of the Council answered to him.

It's one of the best moments of the series where Vig just smacks Geralt around like a ragdoll.

 

[Scryar]

The way I see it (and understood it through the books) very few mages are REALLY powerful and fewer still even HAVE combat experience. Is Vilgefortz MORE powerful than Yenn or some other high end mage? I dont know, but I doubt it. HOWEVER in a FIGHT, he IS going to win, as that is his specialty, what he does, what he has trained to do.

Actually I think he was much more powerful than Yennefer or other lodge sorceresses. During the fight at Stygga castle Yennefer fought him with magic spells, but he easily parried them, while Yennefer had huge problems to counter his magic spells. You could argue Yennefer was weakened, but so was Vilgefortz. His damaged eyes were the only reason why Geralt, Yennefer and Regis managed to defeat him. Just think about it. It needed a powerful high-vampire, probably the best swordfighter in the witcher world and one of the most powerful sorceresses to defeat him. And even that wouldn't have worked without Fringilla's amulet, Vilgefortzt injury and a lot of luck.

His combat experience comes mostly from his time before he "became a mage". He was a soldier and merchants and learned how to fight with non-magical weapons. We know of no other mage who had any (melee) combat experience. We just know about some mages, who fought at Sodden Hill, but they just used magic and probably didn't fight the soldiers in a old-fashioned sword-duel.
That's the reason he could beat Geralt so easily. With his magic he was able to negate Geralt's speed advantage and his sword skills were on par with Geralt's.

I think that he was exceptional in both ways. His magic was more powerful than the magic of other powerful mages and he got "conventional" combat experience during his time as a soldier.

 

[Frybread]

1) Yes, she denounces at some point her source abilities. I think it is possible to get them back. What's the point of Yennefer bring her to the lodge to "teach" her if not? However i admit i am not sure about this.

2) No he is not. He casts a spell(or his staff is magical) to have unreal speed and power, but it's easily exploitable, since he cannot really control that, and Geralt beats him. Nevertheless this spell(or magical staff) is not common. We have not seen any other mage using it.

3) No. Never. Never comparable to Geralt. I am 100% positive on this. Bonhart is quite fast for Cir. However comparable to Geralt, Yennefer herself is not impressed in the least. Only small dogs as she puts it(or something similar).

4) Sure. Not the point.

Geralt is not a normal witcher. It is stated that he was abnormally resistant to potions, so they experiemented even further to him. He is the most powerfull witcher of Kaer Morhen, which is the most advanced witcher school. How do we know this? When Bonhart exposes Ciri, he says "Witcheress of KAER MORHEN". Not just Witcheres. He identifies her advanced fighting and aknowledges that she is not JUST a witcheress, but a wticheress of Kaer Morhen.
Also saying that Geralt's love interests are stronger than Geralt is rediculous. Vilgefortz defeated Yennefer twice in split seconds and he died by Geralt's sword. Also Phillipa is afraid of Geralt as she wants to avoid his possible revenge.
Saying that Geralt was not as strong on blood of elves is absurd. He destroyed the 4 deadliest assasin's in the city AND a mage, all at the same time. He was injured but you have to take into acount Phillipa's involvement. Also on the mage gatherng he slaughter a mage and like 10?maybe more scoiatel in seconds.

1.) Ciri renounced her magical abilities AFTER her time training with Yennefer and at Aretuza.

2.) All I remember Vilgefortz doing is extending an arm and bringing the staff into existence. The scene is a little vague if he cast a spell to make himself move faster or not.

3.) I agree. Ciri is definitely fast and skilled, but never said to be Geralt's peer. Also, even though Coen is no oracle, when asked he tells Ciri she will probably never be as quick as him (a witcher).

 

[TouPoutsou]

1.) Ciri renounced her magical abilities AFTER her time training with Yennefer and at Aretuza.

2.) All I remember Vilgefortz doing is extending an arm and bringing the staff into existence. The scene is a little vague if he cast a spell to make himself move faster or not.

3.) I agree. Ciri is definitely fast and skilled, but never said to be Geralt's peer. Also, even though Coen is no oracle, when asked he tells Ciri she will probably never be as quick as him (a witcher).

1) I am talking about the time Yennefer brings her to the Lodge in the end of Lady of the Lake. As i said i do not know. It's possible that she would never be able to cast conventional magic ever again. on the other hand Geralt states" I am not sure if there is anything Ciri cannot do.

2) He either casted a spell or the staff itself was magical. There is evidence. He states "not exactly a fair fight".

3) Agreed

Vilgefotrtz was inferior to Geralt in a swordfight. Geralt would never have fallen for a such obvious illusion/decoy. Vilgefortz himself being a mage should have figured it out. That's why i sometimes think that beyond the enhanced speed and power, his spell(or magical staff) also had automation and he did not manually control it, but that's just a guess. Maybe he was just that bad

edit: It is clear that there is something abnormal with Vilgefortz even from his firt encounter with Geralt. The books states that on Geralt's blows was "impossible" to parry, but it did got parried. My guess was the staff was abnormally fast and had auto tracking to parry geralt's blows and strike him. That's why the fight would have been impossible, unless Geralt himself used some magic as well.

 

[Charcharo]

Eh, Vig was stated to be the most powerful mage EVER so he had that going for him. All of the Council answered to him.

It's one of the best moments of the series where Vig just smacks Geralt around like a ragdoll.

I am almost certain they did not call him the "most powerful".

But DAMN ambitious and still powerful he was. I think that in the old council he was simply the one with the most drive. Not so much pure power.

@Scryar

Yennefer had undergone months of malnourishment and torture. Her fingers, one of her primary ways of casting spells were broken. EVEN if Vilgefortz had been a bit weakened, she was an utter wreck ...

Yes I know of his combat experience. That too is part of his ability as a combat mage. I do believe he may very well be the best known battle mage. But best mage as a whole? I doubt it to be fair.
Combat power is not everything in this world.
As for buffing himself, yeah. He was a formidable war veteran even without any magic. Not something to take lightly.

 

[Frybread]

1) I am talking about the time Yennefer brings her to the Lodge in the end of Lady of the Lake. As i said i do not know. It's possible that she would never be able to cast conventional magic ever again. on the other hand Geralt states" I am not sure if there is anything Ciri cannot do.

2) He either casted a spell or the staff itself was magical. There is evidence. He states "no exactly a fair fight".

3) Agreed

Vilgefotrtz was inferior to Geralt in a swordfight. Geralt would never have fallen for a such obvious illusion/decoy. Vilgefortz himself being a mage should have figured it out. That's why i sometimes think that beyond the enhanced speed and power, his spell(or magical staff) also had automation and he did not manually control it, but that's just a guess. Maybe he was just that bad

1.) I think the Lodge wanted to control Ciri because of her space-time powers. At that point in the saga, she could still use her Source powers but couldn't cast conventional magic ever again. I also remember them planning for Ciri to marry Tancred Thyssen, the son of the king of kovir. Then, through Ciri, the Lodge would have control of their child who, according to the Prophecy of Ithlinne, would rule half the world.

2.) I can agree, although it's still conjecture on our part.

I think the main reason why Vilgefortz fell for the illusion, according to Yennefer, was his depth perception was fucked up because his eye (left or right, can't remember) was still not fully functional. I think he realized what was going on but it was too late, giving Geralt enough time to counterattack and kill him. Actually, if it wasn't for his arrogance, Vilgefortz probably would have killed Geralt and Yennefer if he had stayed at range flinging spells.

 

[CTPhipps]

I don't think Yennefer is supposed to be anywhere near the most powerful mage in the world.

It's just a lot of the stronger ones DIE.

 

[Charcharo]

I don't think Yennefer is supposed to be anywhere near the most powerful mage in the world.

It's just a lot of the stronger ones DIE.

I did not say she is. But she is in the upper echelons (and may be one one day... if she lives long enough).

 

[Randomdrowner2015]

I mean that she bested knights easily and slaughtered headhunters in droves and even managed to (with some luck) beat Bonhart.

Bonhart was probably living as much of his hype and dirty tricks as on his skill.
Its highly unlikely that anyone would be able to best a wicther in a straignt 1 on 1 fight without having their own mutations or magic.

 

[Charcharo]

Bonhart was probably living as much of his hype and dirty tricks as on his skill.
Its highly unlikely that anyone would be able to best a wicther in a straignt 1 on 1 fight without having their own mutations or magic.

Dirty tricks are totally fair in war
Or a fight to the death.

 

[Randomdrowner2015]

Dirty tricks are totally fair in war
Or a fight to the death.

Of course. What I am getting at that is that he probably lured those witchers into some kind of trap and then picked them of in their weakened or dead state.It would be the smart way to do it anyway.